Booster operation

[bikefreek]

While looking over my trident LCD i noticed that the piston is ported in a way that gases can act on both sides of the piston. Question is are boosters operated by gas pressure or do they just allow the can to "stay still" while the barrel recoils away to the rear?

[rockman96]

I always assumed they operated strictly off the recoil action since they are described as inertia devices.

[Schulze]

Strictly off recoil. The slide moves back before the bullet exits so saying it is operated by the gas is nonsensical.

[bikefreek]

Strictly off recoil. The slide moves back before the bullet exits so saying it is operated by the gas is nonsensical.

The slide only moves back a slight amount while the bullet is in barrel (hopefully), not enough to actually unlock the barrel, on a sig p226 thats less than 3/16". When you look at the piston in the LCD its perfectly understandable to wonder if gas has a role in its operation...after all it is called a piston.

[Fireman1291]

The gas is why it works. When the bullet passes through the piston the gas fills the 1st blast section pulling the can away from the barrel it's attached to. Then the spring snaps it back, this in essence let's the barrel free float as if there wasn't any addition weight on the end.

[bikefreek]

I always assumed they operated strictly off the recoil action since they are described as inertia devices.

but is inertia describing what it does or how it works...one could say they remove the stationary inertia of the can from the barrel but that doesnt mean inertia is the means of operation. It strikes me as odd that there would be ports leading to the blast chamber if pressure wasnt utilized.

[bikefreek]

The gas is why it works. When the bullet passes through the piston the gas fills the 1st blast section pulling the can away from the barrel it's attached to. Then the spring snaps it back, this in essence let's the barrel free float as if there wasn't any addition weight on the end.

this is the means of operation i was suspecting...the part that has me scratching my head is the ports inside the piston that directs gas to the backside of the piston also

[LavaRed]

It operates both ways, depending on the design. The ones that allow the gases to do work should be the most reliable and also help achieve suppression. A clever design will take advantage of the presence of the piston.

That's what my research has led me to believe anyways.

[tmix]

Strictly off recoil. The slide moves back before the bullet exits so saying it is operated by the gas is nonsensical.

Sure 'bout that?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFhGgYq3 ... re=related

[CKOD]

The gas is why it works. When the bullet passes through the piston the gas fills the 1st blast section pulling the can away from the barrel it's attached to. Then the spring snaps it back, this in essence let's the barrel free float as if there wasn't any addition weight on the end.

this is the means of operation i was suspecting...the part that has me scratching my head is the ports inside the piston that directs gas to the backside of the piston also

The gas behind the piston has to go somewhere as it moves back... and I'd imagine the porting would limit the impulse created by the piston moving backwards/silencer moving forwards without having to rely on a stupidly strong spring.

[bikefreek]

The gas is why it works. When the bullet passes through the piston the gas fills the 1st blast section pulling the can away from the barrel it's attached to. Then the spring snaps it back, this in essence let's the barrel free float as if there wasn't any addition weight on the end.

this is the means of operation i was suspecting...the part that has me scratching my head is the ports inside the piston that directs gas to the backside of the piston also

The gas behind the piston has to go somewhere as it moves back... and I'd imagine the porting would limit the impulse created by the piston moving backwards/silencer moving forwards without having to rely on a stupidly strong spring.

the gas behind the piston has enough room left and the piston isnt a tight seal so i think it may have more to do with the second part of your post...the piston ports ensure only a small percentage of the pressure act to cycle the piston

[Schulze]

Strictly off recoil. The slide moves back before the bullet exits so saying it is operated by the gas is nonsensical.

Sure 'bout that?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFhGgYq3 ... re=related

Yeah. I am. What are you trying to say?

[Schulze]

The gas is why it works. When the bullet passes through the piston the gas fills the 1st blast section pulling the can away from the barrel it's attached to. Then the spring snaps it back, this in essence let's the barrel free float as if there wasn't any addition weight on the end.

this is the means of operation i was suspecting...the part that has me scratching my head is the ports inside the piston that directs gas to the backside of the piston also

That is because he is wrong. It is not confusing. Gas pressure cannot operate it if there is more pressure on the opposite side of the face you speculate it is acting upon.

[Fireman1291]

The gas is why it works. When the bullet passes through the piston the gas fills the 1st blast section pulling the can away from the barrel it's attached to. Then the spring snaps it back, this in essence let's the barrel free float as if there wasn't any addition weight on the end.

this is the means of operation i was suspecting...the part that has me scratching my head is the ports inside the piston that directs gas to the backside of the piston also

That is because he is wrong. It is not confusing. Gas pressure cannot operate it if there is more pressure on the opposite side of the face you speculate it is acting upon.

No YOUR wrong. How could the recoil have anything to do with it without the gas behind the bullet? So your telling me I can take a non hallowed suppressor(no voids) and affix it to the end of a glock but since the suppressor has a spring in it pushes the slide back faster? no

The bullet pases through the piston which some have holes drilled laterally in them to lessen the force of the gas coming out of the front of the piston as this would slam the hell out of the host gun when that expanding gas hit the 1st blast baffle.(these are "tuned" by the silencer manufac) At this stage the slide on the host has already begun to move rearward and the barrel is just about to unlock. Now when that gas pushes on that 1st blast baffle it compresses the spring around the piston as the piston is threaded onto the barrel. When you have the recoil of the pistol moving rearward and the recoil of the suppressor moving foward it does exactly as designed and acts as an inertia decoupler. Which means the barrel is basically weight free(the downward weight on the suppressor is not acting upon it) and the barrel can unlock,tilt,reload, and lockup.

[Schulze]

You might be correct, but your command of spelling and grammar is so bad I cannot decipher what you are saying.

[YugoRPK]

The trident LCD is not a booster. It is a decoupler. The silencer body stays in place while the barrel moves. The spring pushes the the silencer body back in place after the initial push from the barrel subsides. Gas has absolutely nothing to do with it.

[tmix]

Strictly off recoil. The slide moves back before the bullet exits so saying it is operated by the gas is nonsensical.

Sure 'bout that?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EFhGgYq3 ... re=related

Yeah. I am. What are you trying to say?

Did you look at the video?
What I'm trying to say is that you are incorrect about the slide moving back before the bullet exiting.
(Notice the slide in the video not moving.)
If boosters did not utilize gas to operate, why do manufacturers port them?

[Fireman1291]

The trident LCD is not a booster. It is a decoupler. The silencer body stays in place while the barrel moves. The spring pushes the the silencer body back in place after the initial push from the barrel subsides. Gas has absolutely nothing to do with it.

How does the barrel "push" exactly? All it does is unlock from the slide and tilt up.....

[Fireman1291]

You might be correct, but your command of spelling and grammar is so bad I cannot decipher what you are saying.

Sorry, I didn't realize I was writting a college exit essay. And the best way to show insecurity is to acknowledge your wrong and add an insult. Just sayin

[Schulze]

Did you look at the video?
What I'm trying to say is that you are incorrect about the slide moving back before the bullet exiting.
(Notice the slide in the video not moving.)
If boosters did not utilize gas to operate, why do manufacturers port them?

That's why I asked, because the vid clearly shows the slide moving back before the bullet exits. Or are you trying to say the law of equal and opposite reaction doesn't apply to short recoil handguns?

[Schulze]

You might be correct, but your command of spelling and grammar is so bad I cannot decipher what you are saying.

Sorry, I didn't realize I was writting a college exit essay. And the best way to show insecurity is to acknowledge your wrong and add an insult. Just sayin

No, seriously. I have no hallowed clue what that post was trying to say.

[bikefreek]

Did you look at the video?
What I'm trying to say is that you are incorrect about the slide moving back before the bullet exiting.
(Notice the slide in the video not moving.)
If boosters did not utilize gas to operate, why do manufacturers port them?[/quote]

A booster wouldnt need a "piston" unless it was acted on by gases. Just as the booster wouldnt need axial ports in the housing and radial ports in the piston its self. If gases werent utilized wouldnt they be sealed off from the internals of the booster to prevent fouling?

[winsor]

...
If boosters did not utilize gas to operate, why do manufacturers port them?....
...

This!

[YugoRPK]

...
If boosters did not utilize gas to operate, why do manufacturers port them?....
...

This!

So that built up gas pressure in the "piston" ( its not a piston ) chamber does not impede the movement of the "piston" . Those holes just equalize the pressure . All the "piston" does is act as an alignment device and a slider. There is no seal to the walls of the LCD. In fact its a huge triangular cut that leaves about 40% of the surface area open. There will be absolutely no pressure difference between the front of the shaft and the rear of the shaft . If it truly is a piston it would be the absolute worst piston in the world.

[bikefreek]

...
If boosters did not utilize gas to operate, why do manufacturers port them?....
...

This!

So that built up gas pressure in the "piston" ( its not a piston ) chamber does not impede the movement of the "piston" . Those holes just equalize the pressure . All the "piston" does is act as an alignment device and a slider. There is no seal to the walls of the LCD. In fact its a huge triangular cut that leaves about 40% of the surface area open. There will be absolutely no pressure difference between the front of the shaft and the rear of the shaft . If it truly is a piston it would be the absolute worst piston in the world.

wouldnt it work alot better to just seal both ends of the LCD with O-rings like the rear cap is? A loose fitting piston wouldnt have a hard time allowing air on one side getting to the other negating the pressure balance requirement. Maybe its all a timing thing...maybe the piston ports ensure the can stays locked up while the bullet is still within the can. And use the axial ports to cycle when the bullet has cleared or is about to clear the can.

With the pressures developed inside the blast chamber and the potential surface area of the piston you wouldnt want to utilize ALL of the gas pressure. You would in fact want a very inefficient system. I would venture to speculate harrnessing anything over 10% of the available energy would lead to a very funny looking spring afterwards.