New Discovery Channel series Sons of Guns airing Jan 12!!!

[Nighthawk]

I said that, but I also told you why I was unhappy with the personal attacks - and it was because they are forum members.

People open themselves up to personal attacks and scrutiny the moment they decide to put themselves in the public eye. If they don't want to hear the public's opinion, they shouldn't put themselves on public TV.

[BISHOP]

Like the flame thrower and the 50Cal build-up they should have taken alot more time on the builds instead of going on to 2-3 other things.
He realy spends a bit of $$ when testing out new products in front of clients on the backdrops and targets.


BISHOP

[Nighthawk]

Clipping the new employee's hair wasn't necessary.

Yeah, that was pretty stupid. What difference does it make how long his hair is. Full sleeves and hand tattoos are okay but not well groomed long hair? The guy seemed to have better hygeine than Will. I have long hair and would have said F--k you I will go somewhere else where they care about my work and not how I look.

I've given the show some s--t about the drama-pump, but the hair length could be a safety issue around the machine tools.

If you're writing computer code, then no problem. If you're working around lathes, then it's a liability. If you're front office/customer facing, then it depends on the local social norms. But it's always up to the boss to set the policy. Also keep in mind, what you saw was on television. We have no idea what was talked about, agreed to etc, off camera.

Of course long hair is dangerous around equipment in a machine shop but then again so is a 12" goatee and that didn't seem to be a problem for Will. I mean come on, none of them look like the type I would want to date my daughter but to single the guy out because of his hair was a dick move on Will's part. Sure that long hair isn't as classy as a chest full of prison quality tattoos on Will or as GQ as a 12" scraggly goatee on his #1 gunsmith but it's still the guys personal choice and it should have been respected.

[eastern_hunter]

Please note that while I may have accidentally started this sh*t storm ... it was done gently and was not personal.

My apologies ... I tried to be gentle as it would not serve the community well for a show with a good start to descend into the pits of within shop dissension like one motorcycle build show we all know.

[silencertalk]

I almost posted in the Kim Kardashian thread why I did not find her attractive, but decided not to, as I did not want to attack someone about their body. And I almost posted that I don't think Vanessa Williams has any business being on TV playing someone who is supposed to be attractive, but also decided not to. Now those are two people who are most unlikely to read it here, and I still did not do it. But that is my internal standard - I don't try to control others posting that stuff about random personalities in the world. But when the person in question is right here, it does start to get into what I want as a site standard.

[Nighthawk]

I almost posted in the Kim Kardashian thread why I did not find her attractive, but decided not to, as I did not want to attack someone about their body. And I almost posted that I don't think Vanessa Williams has any business being on TV playing someone who is supposed to be attractive, but also decided not to. Now those are two people who are most unlikely to read it here, and I still did not do it. But that is my internal standard - I don't try to control others posting that stuff about random personalities in the world. But when the person in question is right here, it does start to get into what I want as a site standard.

Then if that's true why do I see personal attacks by some members to other members and nothing is said by you? I mean sure, I don't read every single post on this site but I haven't noticed before where someone was being personally attacked and you walked in and took up for them. Then again many here on the forum don't have the means of possible free advertisement.

Just saying.

[Historian]

I almost posted in the Kim Kardashian thread why I did not find her attractive, but decided not to, as I did not want to attack someone about their body. And I almost posted that I don't think Vanessa Williams has any business being on TV playing someone who is supposed to be attractive, but also decided not to. Now those are two people who are most unlikely to read it here, and I still did not do it. But that is my internal standard - I don't try to control others posting that stuff about random personalities in the world. But when the person in question is right here, it does start to get into what I want as a site standard.

Ron, as usual by dint of your persona and class you set the standard that puts this site and its participants
above the other boards. You do not get the appreciation that many of us feel yet not often express
as our favorite topic dominates our perpetual 'teenage' brains.

My thanks, at least.

[JMC]

I've watched only three episodes of the program, I've seen enough.
I didn't care for the attitude of the daughter, she plays to the friggin' camera and places far too much worth on her actual being.
The .50 cal guy was flown in for his expertise in putting the M2 together because the Red Jacket people didn't know how to. I thought they treated him poorly. Put it together and go back home was the impression I got.
Their actions on "the range" with the .50 left a lot to be desired.
The owner's "ego" will get in the way of the show.
I did enjoy the Medal of Honor recipient and the flame thrower episode even though I didn't see it all.
Criticism? Like it or not, they are out there for all to see and, for all to critique, good or bad.

[BISHOP]

I still blame what I call Dramatic Editing.


BISHOP

[Tin_Can_Terminator]

Well he is getting more complaints than praise.

Something is wrong. Editing or not.

Mythbusters are education, explosions, guns and fun. No drama and no assholes. It can be done guys. Step up or eventually you'll have to step down.

Unfortunatly I dont see this show being long lived due to the minimal national interest of firearms. Yes WE are gun hobbyist but the average TV watcher will lose interest in the gun topic. Even if the show was edited properly and the actors....er I mean " real people " were more interesting and entertaining. I wished I was wrong.......

TCT

[silencertalk]

Then again many here on the forum don't have the means of possible free advertisement.

Just saying.

I have deleted posts when people are attacked rather than just comment on them, but generally I don't read the threads where there is much potential for that to happen.

Here I made a self-deprecating comment in public and this is what I get - someone taking it seriously. If I wanted to work out a deal for free advertisement with any sort of seriousness, I think I would do it in private. I am familiar with TV production enough to know this is up to the producers, not a cast member.

[Nighthawk]

Then again many here on the forum don't have the means of possible free advertisement.

Just saying.

I have deleted posts when people are attacked rather than just comment on them, but generally I don't read the threads where there is much potential for that to happen.

Here I made a self-deprecating comment in public and this is what I get - someone taking it seriously. If I wanted to work out a deal for free advertisement with any sort of seriousness, I think I would do it in private. I am familiar with TV production enough to know this is up to the producers, not a cast member.

Nah I don't take it seriously. This is just an internet forum, I don't take anything serious online. Just busting your balls a little.

[K1196A]

I've watched the show a few times when NOTHING else was on because in general, I find it pretty disappointing.

It seems like an unprofessional group. I was surprised by what appears to be a general real lack of skill and by them just slapping some hunks of crap together with no real testing to ensure durability or even safety. I hope to God any firearm setup I ever buy has gone through a lot more QC and research before it reaches my hands.

I don't know, maybe I expected too much, but as others have said, I don't see any real innovations or craftsmanship coming from that shop. I won't bother to further comment on the egos, the eye-rolling and the sloppy appearances that others have pointed out, but there certainly is some validity to those observations.

My comment isn't meant as a personal attack, but Red Jacket is holding itself out as somewhat of a representative of this community and I don't think they're doing us any favors.

[haus]

I prefer the discovery channel to most channels nowadays. Reality TV is here to stay. I have never worked a mill or lathe and could not currently do what they do. Learning to do what they do takes tools, books, and time but could be done by those so inclined. Hell the newest tools on the block can do most of the jobs for you once you punch in the dimensions. In the end its just another TV show that keeps you sitting on your ass wasting your evening away until its time to go to bed, get back up, go to work, repeat. Unless you plan to buy their stuff who cares. I don't rush out to buy crabs just because I watch the deadliest catch I own AAC cans and my next one will probably be an AAC Titan. Red Jacket products are nowhere on my radar even if they are on TV.

[Casper]

I understand a lot of the negative comments on here, and can see where they are coming from. I'd add some of my own, but all of that really doesn't matter to me a whole lot. What does, and what has sparked this post is, I just had someone i work with ask me if I had seen the show and after a quick talk they asked to go to the range.

If any others are having the same experience, I'd say the combo of this show and Top Shot will bring some new shooters into the community.

The more we are, the stronger we are.

[DUIPowerstroke]

I understand a lot of the negative comments on here, and can see where they are coming from. I'd add some of my own, but all of that really doesn't matter to me a whole lot. What does, and what has sparked this post is, I just had someone i work with ask me if I had seen the show and after a quick talk they asked to go to the range.

If any others are having the same experience, I'd say the combo of this show and Top Shot will bring some new shooters into the community.

The more we are, the stronger we are.

Yes! I have had that same type of conversation. Although the show may not be the best it is ENTERTAINMENT for the masses. How many people watch those tactical shows on the hunting channels? They are informative but are extremely boring.

Top shot on the other hand is garbage. The 1st season wasnt that bad but the 2nd season is terrible more drama than actual shooting.

[amatac]

Generally speaking, the show is good entertainment. Will is a good guy and he has obviously worked his ass off to get where he is. I am sure he probably has over a million $ invested in his shop. It is easy to criticize someone when you are looking up from the bottom. I, for one, wouldn’t mind one damn bit if people were casting stones from afar at me if I was successful at something that I was passionate about. That is my glass half full bit…
It seems as though (not completely sure) Red Jacket builds their products and they do not really do much testing. It works…WOOOHOOOO! I don’t think that I will be buying anything from them and I worry about some of the products that they put out in the marketplace after what it seems is only a few days or weeks of building and very little testing. Maybe they do and we don’t see any of it. They are bringing some attention to the NFA world, but how much and is it positive? Viewers still do not realize what is involved in making an NFA purchase after they watch an episode or two. They don’t realize how many people dedicate a good amount of their time to the NFA industry. Mainly, they show is about the building process. I wish that they would go more into depth on the NFA items procurement process, but that probably wouldn’t make good TV.
Will has put himself and his business out there and I am sure that he welcomes the criticism, be it good or bad. Like the old adage says, there is no such thing as bad publicity. Overall, it is a good show with some bad things about it. No one is perfect. Even the Soprano’s had a shitty ending.

[ThePatriot]

I just want someone to test the S-12 can with the right equipment.

[silencertalk]

You would need to know the muzzle velocity for the sound level to have any meaning.

[silkysilence]

Thanks guys , we gave it our best . We did for this one, and in future episodes , really cover the NFA process , then again , we also covered the M203 replica , which was mounted on a mint SP1 that cost me $1500.00 [replica thrown in] . We have 0 say in how they edit it together and saw it all for the first time last night . If you think the show was fun to watch and did no disservice to our industry , then we accomplished what we set out to do . We really appreciate all the support we've gotten here , it's a really great board . Will

I dont like how you all make the NFA process sound like it just takes a "couple hours of paperwork" and then average joe can walk out the door with his new toy. It takes about 10 minutes to fill out a form 1 or 4 and then its a 3-4 months waiting game on the examiners.

[kaotic504]

Thanks guys , we gave it our best . We did for this one, and in future episodes , really cover the NFA process , then again , we also covered the M203 replica , which was mounted on a mint SP1 that cost me $1500.00 [replica thrown in] . We have 0 say in how they edit it together and saw it all for the first time last night . If you think the show was fun to watch and did no disservice to our industry , then we accomplished what we set out to do . We really appreciate all the support we've gotten here , it's a really great board . Will

I dont like how you all make the NFA process sound like it just takes a "couple hours of paperwork" and then average joe can walk out the door with his new toy. It takes about 10 minutes to fill out a form 1 or 4 and then its a 3-4 months waiting game on the examiners.

There was an episode where someone wanted a SBS saiga 12 I believe and the daughter did mention that it was about a 3 month process. That guy was shocked and walked out.

[JohnInNH]

Some REAL dB testing equipment would be nice.. Besides that...

If anyone fired a blank in my shop they would be escorted out. If long hair is dangerous how about a blank burst of full auto fire in the shop? Unless that was staged, and Will was faking it with his team... This type of tomfoolery could have resulted in a personal injury. I have seen an arm ripped off in a shop because of this type of behavior. But maybe this is normal in their shop and they are used to it? Again his shop his rules.

The cutting of the hair may have been OK and was agreed on ... It was also sort of a welcome to the club thing and team building. .. so NBD on that one

Also I know it can be frustrating working on firearms, but slamming a firearm down on a table cussing and stomping off is NOT the type of workmanship I want on my $10K+ machinegun. Unless that to was staged. But this kind of thing is more meaningful. It gets to the core of their shop work quality & ethic.

But let's be realistic work is hard enough .. add a film crew when things are not going right. (see AX men: "I'll shove that camera up your ass get the F--k away from me") So the added stress of that..

Bottom line he is doing better than I might.

All in all I like the guys and Will too. I genuinely think Will likes, and takes care of his guys... He would be a tough guy to work for sometimes, but I have had a lot worse. It is HIS shop, so "His house his rules." His valuing his guys opinion about the new hire was an example of that. He needed to keep his crew harmonious. In a small family shop that is very important. In a larger CO they could care less and hire who ever.

A lot of his $ is from reworking SAIGAs.. Just like Tromix. You see them in the background all over the shop. So the project custom stuff for the show gets the top billing..

How much fun would the show be if thy just showed Red Jacket converting a pile of SAIGAs week after week.

It's a shame he is so famous now. He would be someone I would like to visit if I was ever in town. Now he is inaccessible or to busy. Like many of us we all would pretty much get along in person.

[sonanth]

Personally, I like the show. Yep, I agree with the whole drama crap written in it. Could do without it, but I guess no one wants to see people just working machinery. And I think it has been said that Will has no say whatsoever in the editing process, so these guys cut and leave it what they think will be entertaining.

Also, half of America is ignorant about what goes on in shops such as these. I'm sure most of the viewers were drawn to the show mostly because of all the "drama" written in to the show that appeared in commercials. So, if they tuned in and saw 3 guys and a boss standing around in safety gear working machinery, smoothing parts, making sure things ran properly, possibly a little narration about what is going on, and what is being to done to each part, etc., how many people would be changing the channel?

I'd be all for the above, but that is not what TV execs think make entertaining shows.

[Tin_Can_Terminator]

You guys justifying the "Drama" are killing me !

Mythbusters doesnt do it nor does Dirty Jobs and those are two wildly successful shows. Dirty Jobs is nothing more than some dude shoveling s--t most of the time. We all watch that. Why ? Its educational and presented in an entertaining way.

The DC editing and the antics of Red Jacket are doing a disservice to themselves and possibly to the gun community as a whole. God knows I dont want people thinking that because I like guns, I am going to act like some coonass off the bayou.

Someone earlier in this thread said it best: This show is full of fail.

TCT

[sonanth]

I am by no means justifying the drama. I am merely explaining how it seems to have been used.

I feel the same as you.