Welrod Technical drawings

Yes, it can be legal to make a silencer. For everything Form-1, from silencer designs that are easily made, to filing forms with the BATF, to 3D modeling. Remember, you must have an approved BATF Form-1 to make a silencer. All NFA laws apply.

Moderators: mpallett, bakerjw

Andy_Holden
New Member
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 10:33 am
Location: Germany
Contact:

Welrod Technical drawings

Post by Andy_Holden »

Hello Everyone, can anyone help me in the area of Welrod technical diagrams etc ?

i am trying to locate them on the net.... unfortunately not having much luck at the moment....

Thanks in Advance

Andy
Fulmen
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1045
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:36 am

Re: Welrod Technical drawings

Post by Fulmen »

I might be mistaken, but I believe that the original blueprints still are classified by the British Government due to their use by special forces long after WW2.
User avatar
Enfield577
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 805
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:29 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Welrod Technical drawings

Post by Enfield577 »

Andy_Holden wrote:Hello Everyone, can anyone help me in the area of Welrod technical diagrams etc ?

i am trying to locate them on the net.... unfortunately not having much luck at the moment....

Thanks in Advance

Andy
Hi Andy
I think I have seen plans on here http://www.weaponsguild.com/forum/index ... on=search2, you have to join the site to enter and I think you now have to make 20 post before getting all the info, but you should end up with what you need

Cheers

Darren
Of all the things I've lost it's my mind I miss the most
User avatar
PaulNoiseLess
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1249
Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:02 am
Location: Australia
Contact:

Re: Welrod Technical drawings

Post by PaulNoiseLess »

Hi,

There are some old Blue Prints out there as well as 3D Models (for 3D CAD). Search in Turbosquid.com, GrabCAD.com, homegunsmith.com and Google Sketchup Warehouse.

I remember that “Mongo” used to have a SolidWorks model. Contact him.

I have no idea of the quality of the models/plans available on the Net for there are for sure.

Best,

Paul
The future is not waiting for us, it is waiting within us ...
User avatar
LavaRed
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1830
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:11 pm
Location: CA

Re: Welrod Technical drawings

Post by LavaRed »

"There are no stupid questions, only stupid people". -MAJ MALFUNCTION
jlwilliams
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2080
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:15 am
Location: NC

Re: Welrod Technical drawings

Post by jlwilliams »

From the Weaponsguild thread...

Contact Us at the National Archives in the Washington, DC Area
Contact Us Electronically
View the Organizational Phone List
Search the Employee Locator

The Welrod was made in caliber .32 and 9mm. The US Navy tested them in 1943 and termed them very satisfactory. They then procured an unknown number of them in .32 caliber. The OSS obtained all of theirs from the British SOE. It was never a standard issue weapon for the OSS. It did later become a standard CIA issue weapon. The National Archives in Washington DC has drawings on them in Record Group 227, E151, B64. They have both the Mark I and Mark II versions in that group so if you contact them ask for both. They can be reached at [email protected] by e-mail. They also made a Sleeve gun that the OSS tested but never approved. The OSS stil had it in inventory at wars end.


Washington, DC
Telephone: 202-357-5000
Customer Service Center Telephone: 1-866-325-7208

College Park, MD
Telephone: 301-837-2000
Customer Service Center Telephone Number: 1-866-272-6272

Suitland, MD
Staff Contacts

Fax: 301-778-1621
Reference Requests Fax: 301-778-1501

PDF files require the free Adobe Reader.

You can get prints directly from The Man.
User avatar
PTK
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2161
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 11:36 pm
Location: Bozeman, Montana

Re: Welrod Technical drawings

Post by PTK »

The only prints they have are worse than Timelapse's copies. :?

At least that's how it was in 2006.
RIP Dave. You will be missed.
User avatar
Bendersquint
Industry Professional
Posts: 11357
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:19 pm
Location: North Carolina
Contact:

Re: Welrod Technical drawings

Post by Bendersquint »

jlwilliams wrote:From the Weaponsguild thread...

Contact Us at the National Archives in the Washington, DC Area
Contact Us Electronically
View the Organizational Phone List
Search the Employee Locator

The Welrod was made in caliber .32 and 9mm. The US Navy tested them in 1943 and termed them very satisfactory. They then procured an unknown number of them in .32 caliber. The OSS obtained all of theirs from the British SOE. It was never a standard issue weapon for the OSS. It did later become a standard CIA issue weapon. The National Archives in Washington DC has drawings on them in Record Group 227, E151, B64. They have both the Mark I and Mark II versions in that group so if you contact them ask for both. They can be reached at [email protected] by e-mail. They also made a Sleeve gun that the OSS tested but never approved. The OSS stil had it in inventory at wars end.


Washington, DC
Telephone: 202-357-5000
Customer Service Center Telephone: 1-866-325-7208

College Park, MD
Telephone: 301-837-2000
Customer Service Center Telephone Number: 1-866-272-6272

Suitland, MD
Staff Contacts

Fax: 301-778-1621
Reference Requests Fax: 301-778-1501

PDF files require the free Adobe Reader.

You can get prints directly from The Man.
Those prints suck by the way. Discovered them a long time ago when living in DC. Not worth the time trying to acquire them.

-B
User avatar
Bendersquint
Industry Professional
Posts: 11357
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:19 pm
Location: North Carolina
Contact:

Re: Welrod Technical drawings

Post by Bendersquint »

Want to add that there are NO blueprints out there like everyone wants with all the measurements and what not on them, THOSE documents are classified within the Great Britain, under one of their secrecy acts or something.

The best you will find it someone that had access to one and made some measurements or someone that reverse engineers it themselves.

-B
User avatar
LavaRed
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1830
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:11 pm
Location: CA

Re: Welrod Technical drawings

Post by LavaRed »

Bendersquint wrote:Want to add that there are NO blueprints out there like everyone wants with all the measurements and what not on them, THOSE documents are classified within the Great Britain, under one of their secrecy acts or something.

The best you will find it someone that had access to one and made some measurements or someone that reverse engineers it themselves.

-B
Totally. I think those timelapse schematics (for want of a better word), are the best us Welrod enthusiasts can do with for the time being.

That being said I do believe that one could greatly improve on the Welrod's design, in all aspects, with modern technology.
"There are no stupid questions, only stupid people". -MAJ MALFUNCTION
Fulmen
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1045
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 6:36 am

Re: Welrod Technical drawings

Post by Fulmen »

LavaRed wrote:That being said I do believe that one could greatly improve on the Welrod's design, in all aspects, with modern technology.
I agree, there is nothing magical about the Welrod.
jlwilliams
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2080
Joined: Sat Nov 08, 2008 7:15 am
Location: NC

Re: Welrod Technical drawings

Post by jlwilliams »

Sorry, I thought I was posting something worth while. :oops:

I've long thought that a Welrod inspired gun would be well received if only by the small world of silencer enthusiasts. Just a small bolt action that feeds from a pistol mag that has a threded barrel so you could run it with a muzzle can. Lots of guys get a silencer then as years go by they pick up various hosts. Guys witha subgun can or a pistol can might be willing to pick up something Welrodish. I think that is it was a 22lr there would be even more interest. It's the round least often fired in anger and most often fired in fun.
User avatar
Bendersquint
Industry Professional
Posts: 11357
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:19 pm
Location: North Carolina
Contact:

Re: Welrod Technical drawings

Post by Bendersquint »

jlwilliams wrote:Sorry, I thought I was posting something worth while. :oops:

I've long thought that a Welrod inspired gun would be well received if only by the small world of silencer enthusiasts. Just a small bolt action that feeds from a pistol mag that has a threded barrel so you could run it with a muzzle can. Lots of guys get a silencer then as years go by they pick up various hosts. Guys witha subgun can or a pistol can might be willing to pick up something Welrodish. I think that is it was a 22lr there would be even more interest. It's the round least often fired in anger and most often fired in fun.
We are working on a modern Welrod just takes time. Got most of the plans figured out with prototypes in the next year probably.

-B
User avatar
LavaRed
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1830
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:11 pm
Location: CA

Re: Welrod Technical drawings

Post by LavaRed »

jlwilliams wrote:Sorry, I thought I was posting something worth while. :oops:

I've long thought that a Welrod inspired gun would be well received if only by the small world of silencer enthusiasts. Just a small bolt action that feeds from a pistol mag that has a threded barrel so you could run it with a muzzle can. Lots of guys get a silencer then as years go by they pick up various hosts. Guys witha subgun can or a pistol can might be willing to pick up something Welrodish. I think that is it was a 22lr there would be even more interest. It's the round least often fired in anger and most often fired in fun.
Technically speaking it doesn't even have to be bolt-action. It could be a slide-operated weapon, where there is or isn't any means for the recoil to operate the slide (one could toggle between modes through a push-button swtich, if needed). That along would make it a far more versatile weapon than the welrod ever was. Parabolic baffles or K baffles, or even a monocore could provide an easy-maintenance, long-durability baffle stack in a much shorter, thinner package, with the option of a single endwipe, but not necessary for excellent suppression.

Finally, one of the Welrod's most useful features, being able to be taken apart quickly and easily for transport, can be easily accomplished in the manner of the UZI.

If you guys want me to, I can knock something together in Google Sketchup for the fun of it, something you can all use (manufacturers and form1ers alike). Just let me know the caliber of choice and other constraints you may require.
"There are no stupid questions, only stupid people". -MAJ MALFUNCTION
User avatar
MG_Willy
Silent Operator
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:45 pm
Location: Clayton Nc

Re: Welrod Technical drawings

Post by MG_Willy »

This is a very interesting thread.... I actually had never seen one pictures or otherwise.... but those are all just flat washers... I listened to the .wav file of it firing.. wow very quiet...



LavaRed wrote:
jlwilliams wrote:Sorry, I thought I was posting something worth while. :oops:

I've long thought that a Welrod inspired gun would be well received if only by the small world of silencer enthusiasts. Just a small bolt action that feeds from a pistol mag that has a threded barrel so you could run it with a muzzle can. Lots of guys get a silencer then as years go by they pick up various hosts. Guys witha subgun can or a pistol can might be willing to pick up something Welrodish. I think that is it was a 22lr there would be even more interest. It's the round least often fired in anger and most often fired in fun.
Technically speaking it doesn't even have to be bolt-action. It could be a slide-operated weapon, where there is or isn't any means for the recoil to operate the slide (one could toggle between modes through a push-button swtich, if needed). That along would make it a far more versatile weapon than the welrod ever was. Parabolic baffles or K baffles, or even a monocore could provide an easy-maintenance, long-durability baffle stack in a much shorter, thinner package, with the option of a single endwipe, but not necessary for excellent suppression.

Finally, one of the Welrod's most useful features, being able to be taken apart quickly and easily for transport, can be easily accomplished in the manner of the UZI.

If you guys want me to, I can knock something together in Google Sketchup for the fun of it, something you can all use (manufacturers and form1ers alike). Just let me know the caliber of choice and other constraints you may require.
User avatar
Bendersquint
Industry Professional
Posts: 11357
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:19 pm
Location: North Carolina
Contact:

Re: Welrod Technical drawings

Post by Bendersquint »

MG_Willy wrote:This is a very interesting thread.... I actually had never seen one pictures or otherwise.... but those are all just flat washers... I listened to the .wav file of it firing.. wow very quiet...
They aren't that quiet. They aren't loud either, audio doesn't capture the sound accurately. I got to work on one a few years ago and was impressed for what it was but know we can make it better, so we are.

-B
User avatar
MG_Willy
Silent Operator
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:45 pm
Location: Clayton Nc

Re: Welrod Technical drawings

Post by MG_Willy »

Excellent... im close to you gys so maybe I can take a peek at some point... lol



Bendersquint wrote:
MG_Willy wrote:This is a very interesting thread.... I actually had never seen one pictures or otherwise.... but those are all just flat washers... I listened to the .wav file of it firing.. wow very quiet...
They aren't that quiet. They aren't loud either, audio doesn't capture the sound accurately. I got to work on one a few years ago and was impressed for what it was but know we can make it better, so we are.

-B
User avatar
Bendersquint
Industry Professional
Posts: 11357
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:19 pm
Location: North Carolina
Contact:

Re: Welrod Technical drawings

Post by Bendersquint »

MG_Willy wrote:Excellent... im close to you gys so maybe I can take a peek at some point... lol



Bendersquint wrote:
MG_Willy wrote:This is a very interesting thread.... I actually had never seen one pictures or otherwise.... but those are all just flat washers... I listened to the .wav file of it firing.. wow very quiet...
They aren't that quiet. They aren't loud either, audio doesn't capture the sound accurately. I got to work on one a few years ago and was impressed for what it was but know we can make it better, so we are.

-B
Perhaps you can get a sneak peek before we release it.

-B
User avatar
wolf
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2591
Joined: Wed Nov 22, 2006 10:32 am

Re: Welrod Technical drawings

Post by wolf »

Bendersquint wrote:
jlwilliams wrote:Sorry, I thought I was posting something worth while. :oops:

I've long thought that a Welrod inspired gun would be well received if only by the small world of silencer enthusiasts. Just a small bolt action that feeds from a pistol mag that has a threded barrel so you could run it with a muzzle can. Lots of guys get a silencer then as years go by they pick up various hosts. Guys witha subgun can or a pistol can might be willing to pick up something Welrodish. I think that is it was a 22lr there would be even more interest. It's the round least often fired in anger and most often fired in fun.
We are working on a modern Welrod just takes time. Got most of the plans figured out with prototypes in the next year probably.

-B

If i understand the US law correct , then the gun must NOT be able to fire , unless it looks like a gun

Is this correct ??

The Welrod CAN be fired with out the pistol grip/magazine =ZIP gun
Image
Image
Image

SO how is yours going to be ?? with a Mag well ??= pistolgrip =looks like a gun

I have put up some picture here in ST long time ago
also done it over at HomeGunsmith.com

It is easy to make one , nothing complicated

Its pr, design so
User avatar
Bendersquint
Industry Professional
Posts: 11357
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:19 pm
Location: North Carolina
Contact:

Re: Welrod Technical drawings

Post by Bendersquint »

Ours will not be able to be fired without the magazine though it may end up being registered as an AOW and Suppressor.

-B
User avatar
LavaRed
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1830
Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 7:11 pm
Location: CA

Re: Welrod Technical drawings

Post by LavaRed »

Bendersquint wrote:Ours will not be able to be fired without the magazine though it may end up being registered as an AOW and Suppressor.

-B
If you'd be interested in a concept for a gun that complies with these requirements, I'll be happy to knock up some detailed Sketchups for you.
"There are no stupid questions, only stupid people". -MAJ MALFUNCTION
Historian
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 3503
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:37 pm

Re: Welrod Technical drawings

Post by Historian »

Consider the clever Braverman Stinger pistol -- Ref. << http://pengun.com/ >> -- for example
is a tube that when fired is legal because:

" ... Stinger is the only "legal" pengun -- legal in that it considered an ordinary pistol by the ATF.
This is because it cannot fire till it is folded into the recognizable shape of a pistol. .."

Even with the magazine withdrawn the Welrod is still not a sleeve gun as the magazine well
is sticking down in a "recognizable shape of a pistol." Length of the grip/well is greater than zero.

Tossing this thought into the mixture. Saw one that was also threaded.
Now a new version of the Stinger would make a nice build. The plans exist on the web.
User avatar
MG_Willy
Silent Operator
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:45 pm
Location: Clayton Nc

Re: Welrod Technical drawings

Post by MG_Willy »

Sounds great... just let me know....

Thanks


Bendersquint wrote:
MG_Willy wrote:Excellent... im close to you gys so maybe I can take a peek at some point... lol





Perhaps you can get a sneak peek before we release it.

-B
User avatar
Timelapse
New Member
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Feb 16, 2013 11:33 am

Re: Welrod Technical drawings

Post by Timelapse »

Bendersquint wrote:
MG_Willy wrote:This is a very interesting thread.... I actually had never seen one pictures or otherwise.... but those are all just flat washers... I listened to the .wav file of it firing.. wow very quiet...
They aren't that quiet. They aren't loud either, audio doesn't capture the sound accurately. I got to work on one a few years ago and was impressed for what it was but know we can make it better, so we are.

-B
Old thread i know, but how did your build go, do you have a final product by now?
User avatar
Bendersquint
Industry Professional
Posts: 11357
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:19 pm
Location: North Carolina
Contact:

Re: Welrod Technical drawings

Post by Bendersquint »

Timelapse wrote:
Bendersquint wrote:
MG_Willy wrote:This is a very interesting thread.... I actually had never seen one pictures or otherwise.... but those are all just flat washers... I listened to the .wav file of it firing.. wow very quiet...
They aren't that quiet. They aren't loud either, audio doesn't capture the sound accurately. I got to work on one a few years ago and was impressed for what it was but know we can make it better, so we are.

-B
Old thread i know, but how did your build go, do you have a final product by now?
Still working on it, it is on the backburner worked on here and there, we have much more pressing things to be dealing with.
Post Reply