Fluted Cone Baffles & Design Review

[vvillium3]

Good Aternoon All!

I have lurked long enough. Finally getting close to receiving my form 1 approval (super sonic .223 AR build) & would like to bounce some ideas off the experts. I've modelled up a basic fluted cone baffle design, and wonder what you guys think? Its a full weld design w/ quick detatch muzzle brake. See the following images:





What is the real advantage of the flutes in the baffles? Does it make much of a differnce? I've see them in quite a few designs, but never hear if they are very effective. Also, is 1" baffle too long? Is the spacing I have too great? Do I need more baffles? Would I benefit from variable spacing? Any critiques are welcomed.

Finally, would it just be simpiler/more effective to make stepped cones like everyone else? Just wanted to go with this design for its light weight. Sorry for so many questions, new to this suppressor deal and want to make sure my labors aren't in vein.

Thanks,
Jason C.

[Bendersquint]

Looks like you are copying an AAC rifle can, perhaps the M41000 Mod 08?

Yes the flutes help in several different aspects.

More baffles won't hurt it.

Why 50 degree baffles?

[vvillium3]

Thanks for the reply bender! No specific copy of another model, just going by what I see around here.

The reason for the 50 degree cone was I took the inside hole diameter plus the wall stock and added draft until I ran out of room. I can shorten the baffles by 0.25" and fit the extra 10 degrees. Is this a better option?

A couple more questions:

1). Would 2 more baffles make that much of a difference?
2). Should there be variable baffle spacing.
3). Is there any room for improvement in the blast area?
4). Why isn't the fluted design used more often? Is a step design better? I assume that most people will make their baffles using lathes so this isn't an option to many.

Thanks again,
Jason

[Bendersquint]

Thanks for the reply bender! No specific copy of another model, just going by what I see around here.

The reason for the 50 degree cone was I took the inside hole diameter plus the wall stock and added draft until I ran out of room. I can shorten the baffles by 0.25" and fit the extra 10 degrees. Is this a better option?

A couple more questions:

1). Would 2 more baffles make that much of a difference?
2). Should there be variable baffle spacing.
3). Is there any room for improvement in the blast area?
4). Why isn't the fluted design used more often? Is a step design better? I assume that most people will make their baffles using lathes so this isn't an option to many.

Thanks again,
Jason

There is a reason why 60 degree cones are used, not just because of angles and space.

1-3 Yes

Most Form1 use Step Cones, because they are easy to make. Each design has its merits if it is built correct.

[Historian]

Vvillium3, well done, Sir. Beautiful presentation.

As for the reasons for 'More is More' when it comes to
say K-Baffles please refer to the YouTube from one of the
distinguished members here ... a sorbet for one's mind
that I never tire looking at nor recommending.

<< http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GbjXvH7xJA >>

[rdfrog21]

Would it make any difference if you where to spiral the flutes? Maybe more turbulence. Or even a step farther and alternate left/right spiral baffles? Apologies if dumb question still new.

[nbw123]

What type of flash hider are you using for the QD?

[Historian]

Would it make any difference if you where to spiral the flutes? Maybe more turbulence. Or even a step farther and alternate left/right spiral baffles? Apologies if dumb question still new.

Definitely not dumb.

Look at the Dyson Vacuum Cleaner designs.
No book had that design as an exercise-for-the-student
at the end of a chapter.

I still hope that someday someone in a sane place that allows experimentation
to try, say, a Can-Within-A-Can. Think a Sparrow surrounded in an outer
cylinder with tube bleeders further delaying and mini-releasing. Spate of
notional designs that transcend the same-old, same-old .... with the exception
of the 'Game Changers' such as those from Red Jacket and from
the makers of the Carbon/FetaCheese-Stuffed/Loukoumades-Baffle
designs.

Tribute: After 74 years I still have not found any Kourabiedes equaling those my Mother made,
covered in a thick coating of "Balkan Cocaine" [ you'd understand what I mean if you've ever inhaled
powdered sugar while eating that memorable pastry with Turkish/Dissolve-Your-Spoon Coffee ].

Let your imagination reign freely.

[vvillium3]

Thank you all for your responses:

I have adjusted my baffles to the 60 degree cones and shortened them to 0.75". Along with that I have added two baffles to the design, and varied their spacing. Because I am unaware if the spiral fluting will be a detriment or not, I will leave them straight for now:





For the quick disconnect, it will be a home made item. This will be the last item I sort out, as I have a couple of ideas to work through. One is to use the ball plungers in grooves, but I am unsure how effective this will be (see original post image). The other will be to copy the AAC rachet system. Super effective, but I hate bothering the wire EDM guy here at work to have him wire out the grooves in the break/adaptor.

Bender,

I appreciate your time helping me out. One last question for you, how would you improve the blast area? I understand if you don't want to divulge information here, but any help would be appreviated!

Thank you,
Jason

[tony1959]

Jason,

What program are you using to draw with?


Thanks

[vvillium3]

Tony,

Unigraphics NX 7.5 currently. I am a tool & die designer for my profession.

[tony1959]

I have not used Unigraphics, I am a machinist but have been the CNC programmer where I work

Have been with the same company for almost 27 years.

We use AutoCad and Inventor here.

Doing some programming on the side with the program we use now, but I am trying to learn
MasterCam mx6 as that is the program they use.

[nbw123]

Thank you all for your responses:

I have adjusted my baffles to the 60 degree cones and shortened them to 0.75". Along with that I have added two baffles to the design, and varied their spacing. Because I am unaware if the spiral fluting will be a detriment or not, I will leave them straight for now:





For the quick disconnect, it will be a home made item. This will be the last item I sort out, as I have a couple of ideas to work through. One is to use the ball plungers in grooves, but I am unsure how effective this will be (see original post image). The other will be to copy the AAC rachet system. Super effective, but I hate bothering the wire EDM guy here at work to have him wire out the grooves in the break/adaptor.

Bender,

I appreciate your time helping me out. One last question for you, how would you improve the blast area? I understand if you don't want to divulge information here, but any help would be appreviated!

Thank you,
Jason

Why don't you just purchase a 51T flash hider from AAC and machine the QD area of your suppressor to match it? (ACME threads and a pinned ratchet bar)

[Bendersquint]

Why don't you just purchase a 51T flash hider from AAC and machine the QD area of your suppressor to match it? (ACME threads and a pinned ratchet bar)

Maybe because it is a patented system?

[delta9mda]

Why don't you just purchase a 51T flash hider from AAC and machine the QD area of your suppressor to match it? (ACME threads and a pinned ratchet bar)

Maybe because it is a patented system?

sure about that?

[Machine Gun Matt]

Why don't you just purchase a 51T flash hider from AAC and machine the QD area of your suppressor to match it? (ACME threads and a pinned ratchet bar)

Maybe because it is a patented system?

sure about that?

Yes He is!

[Bendersquint]

Here is the link to the patent for those in disbelief for the latch system.

http://www.google.com/patents/US7743693

[Bendersquint]

Here is the link to the fluted cone patent as well.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=FacdAg ... CDEQ6AEwAA

[Historian]

Mr. B., thanks for the lead to the patent.

Brittingham's design is clever and ingenious. Innovation in
this field is happily not dead.

The Blackout seems to be a natural evolution/cross-product of a clipped standard K-baffle ... which has only one
stubby 'flute' and a detached base which introduces more
volume ... and a flat washer stretched into a volcano's inside.

Brittingham deserves cheers, applause, and wishes for much success.

Could see in mind's eye the manufacturing of the individual fluted cones from a sector of
flat metal disk, flutes milled while flat, and then hammered/pressed against a conical mandrel.

And would it not be intriguing if the fluted cones were double walled as were
the old Howard Johnson stacked sugar cones in days of yore ... chocolate ice cream of course ...
with a delta separation.

Anyway, hope someone will post test measurements comparing the K-Baffle design and the BlackOut.

[vvillium3]

Finally had a chance to inspect a couple of models from an AAC dealer today! I see the direction I have to go now. Appears the m4-2000 has 8 fluted cone baffles, with the first baffle being slotted diametrically.

Not that I am going to copy this design, but it appears that my current design will not require the first "flat" baffle.

Thanks for all the help guys! Once that damn stamp comes back I'll update accordingly.

[Bendersquint]

Finally had a chance to inspect a couple of models from an AAC dealer today! I see the direction I have to go now. Appears the m4-2000 has 8 stepped cone baffles, with the first baffle being slotted diametrically?

Not that I am going to copy this design, but it appears that my current design will not require the first "flat" baffle.

Thanks for all the help guys! Once that damn stamp comes back I'll update accordingly.

AAC M42000 has fluted cones as in the picture you made, it does not have step cones.

Be sure if you choose to use patented features that you ask for permission from the patent holder.

[vvillium3]

Sorry for the mistype, as I meant fluted cones. Lots of late night reading and modeling yesterday......... Of course I wouldn't make a copy of a patented design, but that's not I am here asking about.

Thank you all again for your help. Feeling a lot better going into this now.

Jason