"Lockdown" of adults by non-law enforcement personnel at a mall? I don't think I could be confined by a mall employee trying to keep me caged up like that. If I want out, I would use any means available to get out, rather than being forced to huddle up like sheep, waiting for the slaughter to come to us.A staff worker at Panera Bread Co. was standing by the front door, not letting people in or out.
Oregon Mall Shooting (AR-15):POLL
Moderators: mpallett, bakerjw, renegade, Hush
Oregon Mall Shooting (AR-15):POLL
http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascoun ... oting.html
- continuity
- Elite Member
- Posts: 4554
- Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:39 am
- Location: Ohio
Re: Oregon Mall Shooting (AR-15):POLL
Have no use for some pimpley faced teenager giving me direction that could very well affect my quality of life. I'll make my own decisions thank you.
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick
-
- New Member
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:11 am
Re: Oregon Mall Shooting (AR-15):POLL
Id get out of there and in to one of the back hallways they use for stocking those are usually 12inch thick concrete
Re: Oregon Mall Shooting (AR-15):POLL
700PSS wrote:http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascoun ... oting.html"Lockdown" of adults by non-law enforcement personnel at a mall? I don't think I could be confined by a mall employee trying to keep me caged up like that. If I want out, I would use any means available to get out, rather than being forced to huddle up like sheep, waiting for the slaughter to come to us.A staff worker at Panera Bread Co. was standing by the front door, not letting people in or out.
Not to mention the civil lawsuits against the individual and Panera Bread for illegal detainment at least. If I were the owner of that franchise, I'd cut my losses and fire the employee that did that.
America is not at war. The U.S. Military is at war. America is at the mall.
Bone 16, Asshat at large, OUT!
Bone 16, Asshat at large, OUT!
- urban assault
- Silent But Deadly
- Posts: 601
- Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2008 11:00 am
Re: Oregon Mall Shooting (AR-15):POLL
Since I'm always armed, if and when I hear a fusillade of shots I'm getting my woman to a position of safety or escape(if she's with me).
If she isn't, I'm going to do my level best to figure out who the bad guy is and then put much lead in his chest or head, because if I hit the emergency exit without trying to help I don't think I could ever look at myself in the mirror again.
I'll deal with the consequences(legal and life) afterwards.
-urban
If she isn't, I'm going to do my level best to figure out who the bad guy is and then put much lead in his chest or head, because if I hit the emergency exit without trying to help I don't think I could ever look at myself in the mirror again.
I'll deal with the consequences(legal and life) afterwards.
-urban
-
- Silent But Deadly
- Posts: 3851
- Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:52 pm
Re: Oregon Mall Shooting (AR-15):POLL
You sir, have no respect for authority!continuity wrote:Have no use for some pimpley faced teenager giving me direction that could very well affect my quality of life. I'll make my own decisions thank you.
The moments I was censored was the moment that I won. That's twice, now.Thanks jwbaker, et al, for my victories.
Re: Oregon Mall Shooting (AR-15):POLL
This and ive often thought about things like this would i help would i just leave its hard to say what i would do until it happens but i would never allow someone else to keep me safe when im much better prepared of my own safety, and it is kind of hard to go up against someone with an ar15 and you armed with a pistol. and i carry two "slim9s"urban assault wrote:Since I'm always armed, if and when I hear a fusillade of shots I'm getting my woman to a position of safety or escape(if she's with me).
If she isn't, I'm going to do my level best to figure out who the bad guy is and then put much lead in his chest or head, because if I hit the emergency exit without trying to help I don't think I could ever look at myself in the mirror again.
I'll deal with the consequences(legal and life) afterwards.
-urban
When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns
Re: Oregon Mall Shooting (AR-15):POLL
discretion is the better part of valor. If faced with someone with an AR and you have a handgun, you simply look for cover until an opportunity presents itself. A gun jamming or magazine swap is the key. Until then, you stick to cover.
July 5th, 2016. The day that we moved from a soft tyranny to a hard tyranny.
Re: Oregon Mall Shooting (AR-15):POLL
Yea if the ass holes reloading and you rush him and shoot its a better match i guess
When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns
- Libertarian_Geek
- Silent But Deadly
- Posts: 3116
- Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:52 am
- Location: Snarkeville, MS
Re: Oregon Mall Shooting (AR-15):POLL
Know that 99.9% of what looks like cover in such a scenario is only concealment.bakerjw wrote:discretion is the better part of valor. If faced with someone with an AR and you have a handgun, you simply look for cover until an opportunity presents itself. A gun jamming or magazine swap is the key. Until then, you stick to cover.
https://www.facebook.com/DareDefendOurRights
Re: Oregon Mall Shooting (AR-15):POLL
Hard to say what I would do, being a pencil pusher and all. I have some crisis/stress training, but it doesn’t replace actual SHTF experience.
I would like to think I could rise to the call of bold courageous action and not fall into the sheep/coward/flee/pee my pants response category.
I trust that I will likely never have to find out the hard way.
I would like to think I could rise to the call of bold courageous action and not fall into the sheep/coward/flee/pee my pants response category.
I trust that I will likely never have to find out the hard way.
-----
Ick
Ick
Re: Oregon Mall Shooting (AR-15):POLL
Quite true.Libertarian_Geek wrote:Know that 99.9% of what looks like cover in such a scenario is only concealment.bakerjw wrote:discretion is the better part of valor. If faced with someone with an AR and you have a handgun, you simply look for cover until an opportunity presents itself. A gun jamming or magazine swap is the key. Until then, you stick to cover.
July 5th, 2016. The day that we moved from a soft tyranny to a hard tyranny.
- Libertarian_Geek
- Silent But Deadly
- Posts: 3116
- Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:52 am
- Location: Snarkeville, MS
Re: Oregon Mall Shooting (AR-15):POLL
Ditto my friend.ick wrote:Hard to say what I would do, being a pencil pusher and all. I have some crisis/stress training, but it doesn’t replace actual SHTF experience.
I would like to think I could rise to the call of bold courageous action and not fall into the sheep/coward/flee/pee my pants response category.
I trust that I will likely never have to find out the hard way.
https://www.facebook.com/DareDefendOurRights
Re: Oregon Mall Shooting (AR-15):POLL
Oh come on guys this is the internet, nobody is going to do a tactical ninja roll they learned at a hard core class they took? Dive and roll shoot the bad guy is true Little Joe fashoion?
Good to see some people are honest enough with themselve to admit when s--t jumps off,who knows how exactly you will react.
Good to see some people are honest enough with themselve to admit when s--t jumps off,who knows how exactly you will react.
- continuity
- Elite Member
- Posts: 4554
- Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:39 am
- Location: Ohio
Re: Oregon Mall Shooting (AR-15):POLL
Dammit... I've been punked out.poikilotrm wrote:You sir, have no respect for authority!continuity wrote:Have no use for some pimpley faced teenager giving me direction that could very well affect my quality of life. I'll make my own decisions thank you.
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick
- continuity
- Elite Member
- Posts: 4554
- Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:39 am
- Location: Ohio
Re: Oregon Mall Shooting (AR-15):POLL
Just a couple of thoughts. If shots are fired in a mall, our actions are going to be excecuted in an environment of chaos;
Remember, we are all in our street clothes, and not recognizable as an "official" response.
First thoughts about getting loved ones and others to safety using all descretion is a great primary objective.
After that, if we go looking for the evil with intentions to neutralize it, in many ways we could be mistaken as that threat or an accomplice by other concealed carriers, as well as the popo... especially if our firearm is visable. That goes for off duty cops too. For many of us, our adrenaline level will be off the chart and focuse on the "hunt" is going to lower some of our input recognition. Verbal directions to stand down... by heavily armed swat types, might go... unheard...
As a final consideration, once we move into the interdiction mode, we are no longer going to be acting in a defensive manner. Some attorney somewhere will bring up that point, after days, weeks or even years, to disect the events we are dealing with in moments of time. Even though moving to defend others is our driving intent.
Having said all that. If good men fail to confront evil, that is all evil needs to win. I'm comfortable dealing with the subject scenario as a potential bad guy neutralizer. It's good to have tried to think things out before it happens.
Remember, we are all in our street clothes, and not recognizable as an "official" response.
First thoughts about getting loved ones and others to safety using all descretion is a great primary objective.
After that, if we go looking for the evil with intentions to neutralize it, in many ways we could be mistaken as that threat or an accomplice by other concealed carriers, as well as the popo... especially if our firearm is visable. That goes for off duty cops too. For many of us, our adrenaline level will be off the chart and focuse on the "hunt" is going to lower some of our input recognition. Verbal directions to stand down... by heavily armed swat types, might go... unheard...
As a final consideration, once we move into the interdiction mode, we are no longer going to be acting in a defensive manner. Some attorney somewhere will bring up that point, after days, weeks or even years, to disect the events we are dealing with in moments of time. Even though moving to defend others is our driving intent.
Having said all that. If good men fail to confront evil, that is all evil needs to win. I'm comfortable dealing with the subject scenario as a potential bad guy neutralizer. It's good to have tried to think things out before it happens.
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick
-
- Silent But Deadly
- Posts: 3851
- Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:52 pm
Re: Oregon Mall Shooting (AR-15):POLL
This is correct. Plain clothes cops are shot at an alarming rate in real life. Unless you can swiftly and decisively end the threat, the best plan of action is to get out of the combat zone.continuity wrote:Just a couple of thoughts. If shots are fired in a mall, our actions are going to be excecuted in an environment of chaos;
Remember, we are all in our street clothes, and not recognizable as an "official" response.
One other point that hasn't been addressed:
I have spent decades training with small arms. I have spent countless hours in classrooms, on the range, and in combat zones. All those people at that public place where there is a deranged shooter, why aren't the ones in proximity drawing their weapons and ending the threat? They have had just as much access to weapons, training, etc as I have, more or less. Why do I have to endanger my life and well being for these strangers who are responsible for themselves just as I am responsible for myself?
The moments I was censored was the moment that I won. That's twice, now.Thanks jwbaker, et al, for my victories.
Re: Oregon Mall Shooting (AR-15):POLL
Agreed.700PSS wrote:http://www.oregonlive.com/clackamascoun ... oting.html"Lockdown" of adults by non-law enforcement personnel at a mall? I don't think I could be confined by a mall employee trying to keep me caged up like that. If I want out, I would use any means available to get out, rather than being forced to huddle up like sheep, waiting for the slaughter to come to us.A staff worker at Panera Bread Co. was standing by the front door, not letting people in or out.
Later in the article there are bits about police blocking exits. It's a screwed up situation with piss poor organization to say the least.
I believe I would be either escorting my loved ones into the arms of the authorities waiting in the parking lot or moving out into the mall in an effort to find my loved ones and escort them out. Those are my only two options because I NEVER go to the mall unless someone drags me there or it's the crazy season and I feel the need to tag along on security detail.
Assuming I am able to man-up in the situation, staying locked inside a cage and waiting for the threat to find me is a non-option, I plan to leave the kill zone with my loved ones taking action as necessary to accomplish that goal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtd2jNIwAU MUSAFAR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI This is Water DavidW
Complete Form 1s http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI This is Water DavidW
Complete Form 1s http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
Re: Oregon Mall Shooting (AR-15):POLL
Mall would be a risky place to play sheepdog, unless presented with an early opportunity for a clean shot. Better to get to safety and help others do as much. I'd hate to take shots at the bg and hit someone else, or to be shot myself by other ccw/leo.. That would suck.
Silencerco Sparrow SS / Ruger 10/22
SWR Spectre II / Ruger 22/45 Lite
SWR Specwar / DDM4 v7
SWR Spectre II / Ruger 22/45 Lite
SWR Specwar / DDM4 v7
- continuity
- Elite Member
- Posts: 4554
- Joined: Thu Dec 11, 2008 6:39 am
- Location: Ohio
Re: Oregon Mall Shooting (AR-15):POLL
Weird juxtaposition of replies... It (would be) because those individuals have been caught in a situation that they have never really thought through. For the most part, the average person, even most CCW holders, operate in condition "blank". Now however... when the absolute unexpected occurs, situational overload happens and those exposed for the first time become operationally neutralized.poikilotrm wrote:...All those people at that public place where there is a deranged shooter, why aren't the ones in proximity drawing their weapons and ending the threat? They have had just as much access to weapons, training, etc as I have, more or less...
Meh... who ever said you have to? If you do, it's because you're a meat eater. You'll throw caution to the wind and engage the threat without concern for the consequences. Not suggesting that's the optimal response, just an opinion. If not, it's because at least your cognitive processes aren't frozen, and your psyche has decided that "flight" is the best option relative each of our "fight or flight" responses.poikilotrm wrote:Why do I have to endanger my life and well being for these strangers who are responsible for themselves just as I am responsible for myself?
I expected more from you though bro. Given your postings elsewhere, I gathered you only went into a mall environment with a primary (at least 3 mag reloads) a secondary (minimum of 2 mag reloads), 4 or 5 frag grenades, at least some kind of edged blade force projection, thermal /night vision capability, and satphone evac com availability.
For my part I just make sure I have a dime available to make a pay phone help call. Who knows if that 911 call will go through for free. Just saying.
What amount of a man is composed of his own collection of experiences... and the conclusions that those experiences have allowed him to "know" for certain as "Truth"? :Ick
Re: Oregon Mall Shooting (AR-15):POLL
LOL, you were a boy scout too I see? Unfortunately the age of carrying a dime in your pocket is long gone. A few months ago I lost my cell phone and it took me quite some time to even find a pay phone.continuity wrote:For my part I just make sure I have a dime available to make a pay phone help call. Who knows if that 911 call will go through for free. Just saying.
-----
Ick
Ick
Re: Oregon Mall Shooting (AR-15):POLL
If you do it's not a dime anymore and even if you have the right change half the time some punk turd has ripped the handset off it.
I saw one that took a credit card a while back and that kinda scared me.
I saw one that took a credit card a while back and that kinda scared me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtd2jNIwAU MUSAFAR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI This is Water DavidW
Complete Form 1s http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI This is Water DavidW
Complete Form 1s http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
- Libertarian_Geek
- Silent But Deadly
- Posts: 3116
- Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:52 am
- Location: Snarkeville, MS
Re: Oregon Mall Shooting (AR-15):POLL
911 on payphones was free. Companies weren't allowed to charge for it.
I also remember the boyscout days, but we were carrying quarters in our emergency kits in my time(35mm film canister).
On a side-note, I worked for a payphone company during the time period when payphones were becoming obsolete. It got hard to make any money off of them when the PSCs mandated that you have them in some unprofitable areas for safety. Not to mention, you had to pay some hefty union wages to keep them collected, repaired, in service, and count all of that dirty change. All of this to try and make money off of a $.25 phone call.
I also remember the boyscout days, but we were carrying quarters in our emergency kits in my time(35mm film canister).
On a side-note, I worked for a payphone company during the time period when payphones were becoming obsolete. It got hard to make any money off of them when the PSCs mandated that you have them in some unprofitable areas for safety. Not to mention, you had to pay some hefty union wages to keep them collected, repaired, in service, and count all of that dirty change. All of this to try and make money off of a $.25 phone call.
https://www.facebook.com/DareDefendOurRights
-
- Silent But Deadly
- Posts: 3851
- Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:52 pm
Re: Oregon Mall Shooting (AR-15):POLL
No, it's because we are a nation of sheep, and CCWs are rare.continuity wrote: Weird juxtaposition of replies... It (would be) because those individuals have been caught in a situation that they have never really thought through. For the most part, the average person, even most CCW holders, operate in condition "blank". Now however... when the absolute unexpected occurs, situational overload happens and those exposed for the first time become operationally neutralized.
It was a rhetorical question. There is more of an associated concern of being arrested or killed by the cops and painted as a conspirator, etc that goes along with it. Also, I am certain that 99.999% of the strangers I meet on a daily basis aren't ever going to lift a finger to help me, much less spontaneously put their lives on the line for me.Meh... who ever said you have to? If you do, it's because you're a meat eater. You'll throw caution to the wind and engage the threat without concern for the consequences. Not suggesting that's the optimal response, just an opinion. If not, it's because at least your cognitive processes aren't frozen, and your psyche has decided that "flight" is the best option relative each of our "fight or flight" responses.
Primary, TWO spare mags, a Leatherman, and a cheap cell phone. Also, I can kill you with my mind.I expected more from you though bro. Given your postings elsewhere, I gathered you only went into a mall environment with a primary (at least 3 mag reloads) a secondary (minimum of 2 mag reloads), 4 or 5 frag grenades, at least some kind of edged blade force projection, thermal /night vision capability, and satphone evac com availability.
How are things in 1944? Tojo still giving us trouble?For my part I just make sure I have a dime available to make a pay phone help call. Who knows if that 911 call will go through for free. Just saying.
The moments I was censored was the moment that I won. That's twice, now.Thanks jwbaker, et al, for my victories.
Re: Oregon Mall Shooting (AR-15):POLL
911?Libertarian_Geek wrote:911 on payphones was free. Companies weren't allowed to charge for it.
..l.
i don't know about you but in a situation like that I'm calling a number where I can actually expect to get some help.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtd2jNIwAU MUSAFAR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI This is Water DavidW
Complete Form 1s http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI This is Water DavidW
Complete Form 1s http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895