Ted Nugent and open carry

[Hush]

I'm listening to him now on http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/13467913 as I missed the original broadcast earlier tonight and he validated my belief in open carry, its suicide.
Take a listen to what he has to say about it.
What's your view on his comments?

[doubloon]

I would like the option of open carry even though I may never choose to open carry.

I agree with Uncle Ted you should be able to carry and you should be able to carry the way you want.

If everyone carried, I'm not sure it would be suicide if everyone in the mall was practicing open carry.

[YourCoWorker]

Jump in at 7:50 to here the part about open carry.

[Ben B.]

If a malevolently intentioned baddie is targeting someone, then sees open carry on that citizen and decides to look elsewhere, which is better? Tactical ninjitsu or complete preemptive avoidance?

[PostalGlock'n]

So a bad person or multiples are contemplating doing malice whether against you or a target you are in the vicinity of.

The bad guy sees one person with the tools to stop them, they take out that resistance first.

Now, if the bad person sees multiple people with the tools to stop them, they know that they may be able to take out one but will face return force from others.

Why do you think that a bad guy going to rob a bank doesn't walk down the block with his mask on and a shotgun over their shoulder before entering the bank. No need to give away anymore info to strangers than they need to know.

I am not against Open Carry but if given the option, I will have it concealed.

[renegade]

I'm listening to him now on http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/13467913 as I missed the original broadcast earlier tonight and he validated my belief in open carry, its suicide.
Take a listen to what he has to say about it.
What's your view on his comments?

Are there any documented instances of Open Carrier being targeted and killed?

No.

It is all BS.

There are times when Open Carry would be a Tactical Advantage, and times when it would not be.

[Ben B.]

I'm listening to him now on http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/13467913 as I missed the original broadcast earlier tonight and he validated my belief in open carry, its suicide.
Take a listen to what he has to say about it.
What's your view on his comments?

Are there any documented instances of Open Carrier being targeted and killed?

No.

It is all BS.

There are times when Open Carry would be a Tactical Advantage, and times when it would not be.

+1, I share this view. There probably are a very few gun grab attempts against OC citizens, but not much.

[sneedb82]

I think as a CHL holder, I don't want to have criminal charges pressed against me if my weapon is unconcealed on accident. However, under current law, that's an application of intent. So, if Open Carry was approved and allowed (which ultimately relates to the constitutionality of weapons and carrying in general, but that's another topic), then that would be a moot issue. If concealed, and then becomes openly viewed, there's no criminal charges.

Personally, in Texas, I can open carry on my own premises, while mowing the yard, working on my car, walking in my house, but if I go to town, then I'm restricted to where and how I can carry?? What about the issue of long guns, where I can open carry them all day long.... so long as I'm not doing so in a malicious or threatening manner.

Open carrying by a small percentage of those that conceal carry already would be a good number of individuals providing what would seem, unlikely candidates of assistance in thwarting armed situations. Police officers in plain clothes working their duties (with badge present) always get attention. How many of them that are shot or attacked, are attacked simply because they have their gun in view? Same arguments if you ask me towards canceling this whole idea out of the building.




Given the option, I would definitely open carry and carry OWB concealed more often (if open carry was made available), but where I work, most of my time is spent with no option but to keep it secured elsewhere (Working inside federal buildings and courthouses, disallows me legally from conceal carrying at work).

[silencertalk]

If open carry is so bad, why do the police do it?

[Ben B.]

If open carry is so bad, why do the police do it?

Better yet, why do armored car workers and armed security guards do it? I suggest it is to project a show of available force, to discourage robbery attempts.

[L1A1Rocker]

I'm listening to him now on http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/13467913 as I missed the original broadcast earlier tonight and he validated my belief in open carry, its suicide.
Take a listen to what he has to say about it.
What's your view on his comments?

Are there any documented instances of Open Carrier being targeted and killed?

No.

It is all BS.

There are times when Open Carry would be a Tactical Advantage, and times when it would not be.

Yes, I read an account on Gunsnet from a long time member there that came back from an absence. This was several years back so forgive me for a lack of a link. The story went that he was OCing while waiting in line at a service station counter. In came a couple of baddies in a take over style robbery. One saw his OC and took a wild, scared, "oh s--t" shot at him hitting him.

Now this was a very rare situation as the baddies jumped into the scene without any casing of the place. It could have just as easily been a cop in uniform (with his personal car outside) going home from work that caught that bullet. As you said, there are times when it would not be advantageous to OC. Myself, I'd like to wear my IWB holster with a tucked in shirt for a change.

[silencertalk]

I would like to wear my OWB holster and not be subject of getting in trouble if my jacket does not fully cover it.

Though actually in MA open carry with a permit is legal, so I can anyway - but you are at risk of the department saying you are not a suitable person for a permit.

[dtom29]

I'm listening to him now on http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/13467913 as I missed the original broadcast earlier tonight and he validated my belief in open carry, its suicide.
Take a listen to what he has to say about it.
What's your view on his comments?

Are there any documented instances of Open Carrier being targeted and killed?

No.

It is all BS.

There are times when Open Carry would be a Tactical Advantage, and times when it would not be.

Yes, I read an account on Gunsnet from a long time member there that came back from an absence. This was several years back so forgive me for a lack of a link. The story went that he was OCing while waiting in line at a service station counter. In came a couple of baddies in a take over style robbery. One saw his OC and took a wild, scared, "oh s--t" shot at him hitting him.

hmmmmm....

[doubloon]

http://www.todaystmj4.com/news/local/95999354.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zx_YUO4SzcY

[continuity]

Interesting thread. In Ohio, the open carry option is legal. From an Ohio LEO perspective, is all about totality of the situation.

In an urban setting, someone carrying openly is gonna draw attention. From the good guys, from the bad guys, from the neutral guys. It's an unusual thing. Not something commonly seen.

On the other hand, there are some high fence operations where it's not unusual for employees of those operations to go to lunch away from the farms, with a sidearm in western holster most often. Granted it's usually a large caliber single action, but no one even gives that picture a second thought. Armored car guards, peace officers, in uniform don't generate any angst either. Those situations we figure are as expected.

Point being that while it's legal, someone carrying in an obvious observable scenario, it's prudent to be aware of what is "normal" around them. I'm all about being armed when off duty and out and about. But when I am, I don't advertise it. Think about a "group" of 20 something's, openly carrying and coming down the sidewalk toward you. If they are in business suits, and relaxed demeanor, they've still grabbed my attention, little out of place but I'll guess a group of detectives, or some such thing. You take the same group, openly carrying, with flaming red shark fin hairdo's, massive tat coverage, slouchy pants, and metallica t's, raucously shoving each other and generally presenting themselves as barely controlled, and my danger detection gauge just went off scale.

Both groups are apparently carrying legally, but the totally of the situation makes the perception of the two groups polar opposites of each other.

Open carry can be a great thing. If it's not something one would consider normal for the environment one finds them self in, my suggestion is to refrain from it. Unless you just can't live without the results of appearing "different" and the attention it will certainly bring. May rub some the wrong way, but it's the way of things. It's an "is" thing.

Peace

[Ben B.]

Much like current TV shows are over representing gay married couples in order to create a "new normal" (hey that could be a title for a show), open carry gurus are advocating changing the stodgy, 1950's based definition of normal that regulates current issue danger detection gauges.

[doubloon]

... From an Ohio LEO perspective, is all about totality of the situation.
...

As it should be. Situational awareness is a valuable survival skill for everything from storming a crack house to a late night walk to the toilet.

Every so often I run across a guy in jeans and a casual shirt with piece of iron openly attached to his hip. A quick visual inspection is rewarded with a shield on his chest or on his belt next to the gun sorting him into the LEO bin, usually a Ranger in these parts but rare.

As pro gun as I am I have to admit it startles me a little every time turn an aisle at the grocery store and see a guy with a gun on his hip coming the other way. If they passed open carry in Texas tomorrow I think it would be months or longer before the excitement settled down.

[silencertalk]

Note LE use retention holsters. I would probably use one also if I open carried.