Solenoid triggers
Solenoid triggers
Any of you guys heard of this?
Not silencer oriented but it seems it must be NFA related.
“The solenoid releases only when the trigger is pulled “
Isn’t solenoid triggers where some of the bull pup guys got in trouble?
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/03/ ... red-rifle/
Not silencer oriented but it seems it must be NFA related.
“The solenoid releases only when the trigger is pulled “
Isn’t solenoid triggers where some of the bull pup guys got in trouble?
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/03/ ... red-rifle/
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Re: Solenoid triggers
The ATF has classified solenoid triggers as machineguns in the past.kbs2244 wrote:Any of you guys heard of this?
Not silencer oriented but it seems it must be NFA related.
“The solenoid releases only when the trigger is pulled “
Isn’t solenoid triggers where some of the bull pup guys got in trouble?
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/03/ ... red-rifle/
Now they MIGHT be able to get the signoff since its a bolt actions, but I do know a solenoid and a semi-auto is a machinegun since its just a change in programming and then its full auto.
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Re: Solenoid triggers
See: Remington eTronix. It wasn't solenoid operated, but it too was fired at the press of an electronic button.Bendersquint wrote:The ATF has classified solenoid triggers as machineguns in the past.kbs2244 wrote:Any of you guys heard of this?
Not silencer oriented but it seems it must be NFA related.
“The solenoid releases only when the trigger is pulled “
Isn’t solenoid triggers where some of the bull pup guys got in trouble?
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/03/ ... red-rifle/
Now they MIGHT be able to get the signoff since its a bolt actions, but I do know a solenoid and a semi-auto is a machinegun since its just a change in programming and then its full auto.
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Re: Solenoid triggers
It was also a bolt action.Libertarian_Geek wrote:See: Remington eTronix. It wasn't solenoid operated, but it too was fired at the press of an electronic button.Bendersquint wrote:The ATF has classified solenoid triggers as machineguns in the past.kbs2244 wrote:Any of you guys heard of this?
Not silencer oriented but it seems it must be NFA related.
“The solenoid releases only when the trigger is pulled “
Isn’t solenoid triggers where some of the bull pup guys got in trouble?
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2013/03/ ... red-rifle/
Now they MIGHT be able to get the signoff since its a bolt actions, but I do know a solenoid and a semi-auto is a machinegun since its just a change in programming and then its full auto.
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Re: Solenoid triggers
Right. So is the rifle in the OP, right?Bendersquint wrote: It was also a bolt action.
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Re: Solenoid triggers
Impressive glass.
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Re: Solenoid triggers
do want!
Re: Solenoid triggers
Sooooo ...Bendersquint wrote:...
It was also a bolt action.
Not that it would be the responsible thing to do but ...
On a bolt gun, if someone clever figured out a way to tie the targeting mechanism back to the solenoid trigger such that the targeting system could automatically release the projectile at the optimum moment how might that fare legally?
I mean the "shooter" might be required to hold the "trigger" depressed and wave the gun around until the target was acquired then the scope would "finish" the job of pulling the trigger. Sort of a "delayed" trigger pull if it ever happened at all.
I realize of something like this worked it would take 99% of the sport out of hunting but in a military application it would be devastating. Especially if it would be made to work in a fully automatic mode. Just sweep the barrel down a line of enemy soldiers and let the gun decide when to shoot.
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Re: Solenoid triggers
I've thought about the military application of a ball of barrels (and cameras, and electronics). Fire the basketball sized object into a window and if a camera lines up with a face, then the coaxial barrel fires. It rolls around like a roomba for 5-10 minutes or until remotely disabled.doubloon wrote:Sooooo ...Bendersquint wrote:...
It was also a bolt action.
Not that it would be the responsible thing to do but ...
On a bolt gun, if someone clever figured out a way to tie the targeting mechanism back to the solenoid trigger such that the targeting system could automatically release the projectile at the optimum moment how might that fare legally?
I mean the "shooter" might be required to hold the "trigger" depressed and wave the gun around until the target was acquired then the scope would "finish" the job of pulling the trigger. Sort of a "delayed" trigger pull if it ever happened at all.
I realize of something like this worked it would take 99% of the sport out of hunting but in a military application it would be devastating. Especially if it would be made to work in a fully automatic mode. Just sweep the barrel down a line of enemy soldiers and let the gun decide when to shoot.
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Re: Solenoid triggers
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtd2jNIwAU MUSAFAR!
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Re: Solenoid triggers
I do know that some disabled and bench rest shooters use a hydraulic system to press the trigger on the rifle. Also a hand operated crank is also legal if it operates the regular trigger on the rifle. An example of this is used on semi-auto 1919s.
Re: Solenoid triggers
The 1919 crank is a manually operated device and the 1919 releases one round for every single press of the trigger. Once you put an electric drill on the crankshaft you have a problem.
Not familiar with the hydraulic benchrest triggers but I imagine it's also manually operated and it's probably on a bolt gun? So we're back to one round for every single press of the trigger.
The point -B- was making for solenoid triggers is he believes it's too easy to make a programming change to switch a semi-auto weapon to full auto. But then adding an electric motor to a 1919 crank is pretty easy too.
Not familiar with the hydraulic benchrest triggers but I imagine it's also manually operated and it's probably on a bolt gun? So we're back to one round for every single press of the trigger.
The point -B- was making for solenoid triggers is he believes it's too easy to make a programming change to switch a semi-auto weapon to full auto. But then adding an electric motor to a 1919 crank is pretty easy too.
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Re: Solenoid triggers
I was thinking it would play a tune before firing. Maybe "pop goes the weasel", but in a broken tempo and somewhat slower.doubloon wrote:You should put a clock in it too.
pic...
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Re: Solenoid triggers
There was a movie where some catchy little tune played every time the villain killed somebody but it escapes me at the moment. Maybe something from the soundtrack of "Suspect Zero" would be appropriate.
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Re: Solenoid triggers
Do you know this from experience?doubloon wrote:The 1919 crank is a manually operated device and the 1919 releases one round for every single press of the trigger. Once you put an electric drill on the crankshaft you have a problem.
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Re: Solenoid triggers
The addition of electricity is where the issue is.rjacobs wrote:Do you know this from experience?doubloon wrote:The 1919 crank is a manually operated device and the 1919 releases one round for every single press of the trigger. Once you put an electric drill on the crankshaft you have a problem.
If someone made a crank actuated minigun then it would be legal to sell, since its electronically actuated its a MG.
Re: Solenoid triggers
My post was meant to be in jest.Bendersquint wrote:The addition of electricity is where the issue is.rjacobs wrote:Do you know this from experience?doubloon wrote:The 1919 crank is a manually operated device and the 1919 releases one round for every single press of the trigger. Once you put an electric drill on the crankshaft you have a problem.
If someone made a crank actuated minigun then it would be legal to sell, since its electronically actuated its a MG.
Re: Solenoid triggers
I think he knows that and was trying to add some clarification to my post.rjacobs wrote:...
My post was meant to be in jest.
I can't say my hand has ever been on a motor powered 1919 crank.
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Re: Solenoid triggers
Nailed it!doubloon wrote:I think he knows that and was trying to add some clarification to my post.rjacobs wrote:...
My post was meant to be in jest.
I can't say my hand has ever been on a motor powered 1919 crank.
Re: Solenoid triggers
In the early 1900's, U.S. Army Ordnance guys did exactly what we are talking about... added an electric motor to the crank shaft of a stock Colt Gatling gun, and in tests, achieved modern rates of fire - 3,000+ RPM. The guns ran fine. Of course, since they used stick or Accles drum mags, they emptied in a heartbeat.
The concept was shelved as a curiosity. Still, pretty cool that they did it pre-WW1.
Where people get confused with cranks is the notion of the term "trigger." As in "Hey, it's still one shot per trigger pull!" Uh, no. If you add a DeWalt drill to a gatling gun, the trigger on the DeWalt replaces/becomes the trigger for the system.
One "actuation" of any mechanism - button, trigger, lever, - and more than 1 shot fired = machine gun.
The concept was shelved as a curiosity. Still, pretty cool that they did it pre-WW1.
Where people get confused with cranks is the notion of the term "trigger." As in "Hey, it's still one shot per trigger pull!" Uh, no. If you add a DeWalt drill to a gatling gun, the trigger on the DeWalt replaces/becomes the trigger for the system.
One "actuation" of any mechanism - button, trigger, lever, - and more than 1 shot fired = machine gun.
Re: Solenoid triggers
There was a guy on RimfireCentral selling electronic triggers for 10/22s. It doesn't look like he still making them though.
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/sh ... p?t=317395
http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/sh ... p?t=317395
Re: Solenoid triggers
Cool find in the 10/22.
Sort of interesting in a conspiracy sort of way that his last post was in that thread.
He has a FB page as well http://www.facebook.com/pages/Electroni ... 4479145685
YouTube test fires back in 2010 ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKJqH7-KepI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CswaP5NG7dM
ETA: a recent post by BulZi Feb 13, 2013 http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?PHPSE ... 5#msg16825
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/show ... 3&t=408555
Link to letter image http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af1 ... edited.jpg
Sort of interesting in a conspiracy sort of way that his last post was in that thread.
He has a FB page as well http://www.facebook.com/pages/Electroni ... 4479145685
YouTube test fires back in 2010 ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKJqH7-KepI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CswaP5NG7dM
ETA: a recent post by BulZi Feb 13, 2013 http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?PHPSE ... 5#msg16825
EATA: this guy says it got a letter back from the ATF saying electronic triggers are good to goNo ATF letter is provided. Electronic triggers are legally no different from any other trigger system. Semiautomatic guns with electronic triggers have been commercially available for over a decade, including the Pardini SP 1 E and the MatchGuns MG2E among others. These guns also do not come with an ATF letter because no such letter is necessary for a one-shot-per-pull semiautomatic gun. There is a lot of misinformation circulating about electronic triggers, but if the design is semiautomatic only, it is legal.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/show ... 3&t=408555
Link to letter image http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af1 ... edited.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtd2jNIwAU MUSAFAR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI This is Water DavidW
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Re: Solenoid triggers
If the trigger wasnt 400 something bucks i would get one and reprogram it as a mid to slow fire machinegun instead of converting the gun itself!doubloon wrote:Cool find in the 10/22.
Sort of interesting in a conspiracy sort of way that his last post was in that thread.
He has a FB page as well http://www.facebook.com/pages/Electroni ... 4479145685
YouTube test fires back in 2010 ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKJqH7-KepI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CswaP5NG7dM
ETA: a recent post by BulZi Feb 13, 2013 http://bullpupforum.com/index.php?
PHPSESSID=r686jn4bnh62b9bnit1k8kj4c4&topic=2268.msg16825#msg16825EATA: this guy says it got a letter back from the ATF saying electronic triggers are good to goNo ATF letter is provided. Electronic triggers are legally no different from any other trigger system. Semiautomatic guns with electronic triggers have been commercially available for over a decade, including the Pardini SP 1 E and the MatchGuns MG2E among others. These guns also do not come with an ATF letter because no such letter is necessary for a one-shot-per-pull semiautomatic gun. There is a lot of misinformation circulating about electronic triggers, but if the design is semiautomatic only, it is legal.
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/show ... 3&t=408555
Link to letter image http://i1001.photobucket.com/albums/af1 ... edited.jpg
Re: Solenoid triggers
Years ago, I was pretty proficient in programming the PIC series of uProcessor chips. It would be child's play to use a PIC to power a 6V or 12V solenoid through a fast solid state relay, that in turn actuates a trigger like on a 10-22. You could have 5 recessed push buttons on a composite stock, and an LED that blinks to tell you what "mode" you are in.
You could have
SAFE
SEMI
BURST (2 to 5 rounds)
AUTO I (250 rpm)
AUTO II (500 rpm, or the fastest that could reliably actuate the host)
The electronics to do this would cost maybe $20, the actual solenoid another $10 to $20. You'd need batteries (I'd use LiPo's as used by the RC airplane folk in the buttstock) which would be another $40 per unit. Total manufacturing cost, aside from anything like special molded buttstocks, etc, maybe $50.
Of course it would totally be illegal, a postie, and anyone doing so outside of FFL/SOT would end up in jail.
You could have
SAFE
SEMI
BURST (2 to 5 rounds)
AUTO I (250 rpm)
AUTO II (500 rpm, or the fastest that could reliably actuate the host)
The electronics to do this would cost maybe $20, the actual solenoid another $10 to $20. You'd need batteries (I'd use LiPo's as used by the RC airplane folk in the buttstock) which would be another $40 per unit. Total manufacturing cost, aside from anything like special molded buttstocks, etc, maybe $50.
Of course it would totally be illegal, a postie, and anyone doing so outside of FFL/SOT would end up in jail.
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Re: Solenoid triggers
I used a pic to redo the electronics on an old Shocker paintball gun once. Little known thing about microchip PICs. You can get free samples from microchip's website.Baffled wrote:Years ago, I was pretty proficient in programming the PIC series of uProcessor chips. It would be child's play to use a PIC to power a 6V or 12V solenoid through a fast solid state relay, that in turn actuates a trigger like on a 10-22. You could have 5 recessed push buttons on a composite stock, and an LED that blinks to tell you what "mode" you are in.
You could have
SAFE
SEMI
BURST (2 to 5 rounds)
AUTO I (250 rpm)
AUTO II (500 rpm, or the fastest that could reliably actuate the host)
The electronics to do this would cost maybe $20, the actual solenoid another $10 to $20. You'd need batteries (I'd use LiPo's as used by the RC airplane folk in the buttstock) which would be another $40 per unit. Total manufacturing cost, aside from anything like special molded buttstocks, etc, maybe $50.
Of course it would totally be illegal, a postie, and anyone doing so outside of FFL/SOT would end up in jail.
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