Oh No! They Are Back Again!

[dtom29]

I repeat....The things that go on when filming the show are done to entertain, and anybody that watches and thinks otherwise is dumber than a rock.
You two are just amazing, The fact that you watch this stuff on TV and think it's a real portrayal of a real life businessman boggles my mind. I'll bet you think you can "bend a bullet" because you saw it in the movies too. I sure hope you don't think everything you read and hear on the internet is true also...although from your statements and replies I have no confidence in that. Guys, the show is a soap opera, nothing more. It's not real life.

[Emilio]

They lack both skill and integrity. At least they have arrogant.

[Fulmen]

I know it's choreographed, but that doesn't change my point. You can make a show without coming off looking like a complete amateur, if someone allows himself to be portrayed like one he deserves to be called one. If it was pure acting I'd agree with you, but when they claim it's how the shop is run, well, what can you do? Based solely on what you've seen on TV, would you trust them with any of your guns?

[Jer]

I'll hold off on comments (other than this one) until I've seen more episodes...however, one that I did see caused me to cringe.
They were modifying a Porsche with claymores out the back, dual auto remote aiming M-16s in a ski rack on the top....

Again, I'm not in manufacturing...but that one singular episode made me scared for the client. The two other episodes I watched with them making guns or repairing guns didn't seem too bad.

[rcn11thacr]

however, one that I did see caused me to cringe

but that one singular episode made me scared for the client

Awe, come on now. Havent you ever been in gridlock traffic before? Claymores, flashbangs, full auto, along with a 185 mph Porshe would have to have crossed someones mind at one point or another as to the possibilities...

[Jer]

however, one that I did see caused me to cringe

but that one singular episode made me scared for the client

Awe, come on now. Havent you ever been in gridlock traffic before? Claymores, flashbangs, full auto, along with a 185 mph Porshe would have to have crossed someones mind at one point or another as to the possibilities...

Oh sure! Hell, I think the IDEA for the design is fantastic. Hell yes, I'd like to have something like that for a BOV...but it was the method of installment on the car that was terrible.
Hell, they didn't even think about putting armored glass in the back window and when they test fired it, the window blew out....duh. Imagine the hearing loss to the occupants inside the car.
I've detonated claymores...many many times. They aren't something you want to be in close proximity to and CERTAINLY not in a confined space with.

To me, that episode showed they had a lot of technical ability but not much knowledge about pressure waves, and good fabrication techniques. They may be good with guns - but the remote s--t, and making a James Bond car...that should have been left up to a company that specializes in that sort of thing. It did make me wonder who the client was - or IF there even was a client. Chances are it was just a TV deal and there was no client (they never showed one) because if I am not mistaken, civilians can't own machine guns that were manufactured after 1986 - and the M-16s that were in the ski rack were quite a bit newer than than. So that leaves a government agency as the client...and I highly doubt any government agency that needs a car like that would 1) use Red Jacket to make it 2) allow it to be shown on TV...

[rcn11thacr]

Lmao. Guess i should have expected that responce, lol.
Just so your aware, i will fully agree with your synopsis. No different than looking beyond your intended target before executing the trigger squeeze. Gotta count all the "what if's, certainties, along with unintended possibilities" before the project is off and running.

[dtom29]

however, one that I did see caused me to cringe

but that one singular episode made me scared for the client

Awe, come on now. Havent you ever been in gridlock traffic before? Claymores, flashbangs, full auto, along with a 185 mph Porshe would have to have crossed someones mind at one point or another as to the possibilities...

Oh sure! Hell, I think the IDEA for the design is fantastic. Hell yes, I'd like to have something like that for a BOV...but it was the method of installment on the car that was terrible.
Hell, they didn't even think about putting armored glass in the back window and when they test fired it, the window blew out....duh. Imagine the hearing loss to the occupants inside the car.
I've detonated claymores...many many times. They aren't something you want to be in close proximity to and CERTAINLY not in a confined space with.

To me, that episode showed they had a lot of technical ability but not much knowledge about pressure waves, and good fabrication techniques. They may be good with guns - but the remote s--t, and making a James Bond car...that should have been left up to a company that specializes in that sort of thing. It did make me wonder who the client was - or IF there even was a client. Chances are it was just a TV deal and there was no client (they never showed one) because if I am not mistaken, civilians can't own machine guns that were manufactured after 1986 - and the M-16s that were in the ski rack were quite a bit newer than than. So that leaves a government agency as the client...and I highly doubt any government agency that needs a car like that would 1) use Red Jacket to make it 2) allow it to be shown on TV...

That's the point, there is no client. This stuff is all made up. As soon as you get that, then everything falls into place. This is a gun soap opera. Thinking the Actors of any soap opera are evel,criminal,etc in real life is absurd. Will and crew play a part. Those of you thinking any of this is real need to get a life. I have done business with Will before the TV show, he's a good guy that knows his stuff. His customer service was second to none and I was always satisified that I received what I ordered. You guys have to quit watching this show thinking it's really what would go on in any thriving business. If you're going to watch it, watch it for what it is....entertainment for the masses. It really isn't for the knowledgable( unless you just want a laugh). This irrational hate for Will, his Daughter and the other actors is just ridiculous, You guys remind me of WWE fans

[rcn11thacr]

If you're going to watch it, watch it for what it is....entertainment for the masses

That, my friend is exactly why i watch it. I could care less if its real or not. Its purely entertainment. Who doesnt like the smell of cordite in the morning?

[Fulmen]

That's the point, there is no client. This stuff is all made up.

I see your point, I never watched enough to pick up on that (if that indeed is the case). But that only makes it worse in my eyes. Not that I hate any of the participants in the show, I only started watching for the technical part, and what I saw made me loose interest pretty fast. I don't invest anything in the characters (real of fictional) unless they show some real skills or knowledge. Some drool over that girl in the show, but pretty girls are everywhere and I can think of hundreds of girls that are both better looking and more interesting.

If you're right then the whole concept is genuinely dishonest. They promote it like a real gun shop with real customers and real events, if it is nothing more than a soap opera then everybody associated with the show is just as dishonest as the concept. It didn't have to be like that, there are lots of similar show that while they may be embellished for entertainment purposes still try to portray quality work for real customers (at least as far as I can tell).

It also brings up a question that boggles my mind: Why would a (according to you) skilled person get involved in a show like this where he's portrayed like a complete tool? I can't imagine anyone with any real interest in guns, gunsmithing or quality considering their shop based on what they see on the show. While the show might give him a lot of free PR it will only work on idiots that have no clue about guns at all and posers that just want their 15 minutes of fame. I can't fathom how any skilled craftsman would want to attract the least knowledgeable and quality-minded customers, if you have any pride in what you do you want the exact opposite. Demanding customers that can challenge you to do even better work, and establishing a name that is synonymous with quality and excellence.

[Historian]

As with Fulmen, I watch these shows for the machining, set-us ( or lack thereof )
and the stream of different weapons that have played an integral part in the history of
societal development. Personally would like to see more concentration of the machining
processes ... a la Tubalcain series on YouTube. Cutting metal.

The best along this line is "Graveyard Carz" where I feel I am participating in the restoration
of classic muscle cars. Mark Worman's integrity shines through while surrounded by the
jocularity that enlivens the show. Emotions yes. In this instance I would feel comfortable hanging around those
guys ... like my old gang. Not the other shows.

It is clear that the Sons of Guns producers have a major part in generating or at least amplifying conflict
by emphasizing character flaws. But the participants are being payed, they are not Christian
Charity volunteers. The most recent episode caught Will, sotto voce, hinting that there
could be a mole in the firm who told a former employee of Will's need for scarce
barrels, cornering the market, and demaning $500.00 a barrel. Will then
cast aspersions at Glenn Fleming, one of the few real gunsmiths.
Not cool.

Introducing the word 'hate' to characterize the criticism of the show
seems extreme. 'Cringe' might be a more appropriate word.

Of interest to this site there is often mentioned the "Red Jacket Suppressor". Have I missed any description, Db ratings, or reviews
of one? Is its design a K, Omega, car body washer, or should we assign it, out of some semblance of good manners,
the Greek letter IOTA, the most insignificant letter in their alphabet?

But then it really could be a Game Changer Design.

[GoodOlDave]

Of interest to this site there is often mentioned the "Red Jacket Suppressor". Have I missed any description, Db ratings, or reviews
of one? Is its design a K, Omega, car body washer, or should we assign it, out of some semblance of good manners,
the Greek letter IOTA, the most insignificant letter in their alphabet?

But then it really could be a Game Changer Design.

Everything Red Jacket makes is based upon an idea someone else came up with. Their Master Key systems are cut down Saiga shotguns with a Picatinny mount welded onto it and their KMP rifles are literally the standard AR-15 with Magpul stocks. Even their ZK-22 is just a drop in stock that makes a 10/22 look like a FN P90. What are the odds anything they make will ever be a game changer design, be it silencers or anything else?

I have no dislike for the cast. I just disaprove of them pretending to compare themselves to John Browning and Eugene Stoner when they're really just a bunch of Paris Hiltons making money off of behaving stupidly for the sake of the camera. Comparing them to John Garand would actually be fighting words.

[bitfi3nd]

If you're going to watch it, watch it for what it is....entertainment for the masses

That, my friend is exactly why i watch it. I could care less if its real or not. Its purely entertainment. Who doesnt like the smell of cordite in the morning?

We haven't used Cordite since WW1.
Most people who are still alive who have smelled it in the morning can't remember it & just want their jello now and it's cold in here.

Also: Red Jacket are a confederacy of dunces with a bench grinder & a TV show.

[Historian]

If you're going to watch it, watch it for what it is....entertainment for the masses

That, my friend is exactly why i watch it. I could care less if its real or not. Its purely entertainment. Who doesnt like the smell of cordite in the morning?

We haven't used Cordite since WW1.
Most people who are still alive who have smelled it in the morning can't remember it & just want their jello now and it's cold in here.

Also: Red Jacket are a confederacy of dunces with a bench grinder & a TV show.

My uncle who passed away in 2001 at 102, mind alert and walking each day
along the beach, recounted 'smelling cordite' and being in the US Army just as the
'War to End Wars' was winding down.

This made me realize that in just a few years those young souls who served in Nam
will become the next wave of 'old timers' finding jello their favorite meal of the day.

Tempus Fugit.

[PDXSparky]

Why the RJ hate?
Actually you're leaving a lot out...I think it's hilarious that you "experts" believe everything you see on TV. Will really does know what he's doing when it comes to AK building. He was doing great work long before the TV show, and had a great reputation among those that knew their way around an AK. The things that go on when filming the show are done to entertain, and anybody that watches and thinks otherwise is dumber than a rock. About the only thing you got right is the part I highlighted. Oh, And Will is laughing all the way to the bank....

Then would you mind terribly explaining how I was able to find my own Japanese Nambu AND two boxes of 8mm Nambu for it while sitting in front of the computer eating potato chips while Big Chief Redneck went through so much stress going from gun shop to gun shop looking for one? That's not doing things to entertain. That's outright making things up. Besides, you know as well as I do that all the guy does is take existing frames and accessorizes them. That's literally his entire "Master Key" invention; a cut down Saiga with a Picatinny mount welded on it. You'll excuse me if I don't get excited over a business that caters to mall ninjas.

Well, watching someone use their computer to find a Japanese Nambu online would hardly be very entertaining. Sometimes things are "dramatized" just for the viewing audience, and on RJ that is definitely the case.

[hddriver1]

Why did that guy quit? He didn't like being portrayed as a moron, that's why. To him weapons building and related work was more important than a t.v. paycheck so he bailed. I wouldn't last 1/2 a day in there before I told someone to pack sand and I quit. But, that's "IF" the shop is really like that. And like has been mentioned, would a professional "really" want himself portrayed that way? Yes, he made a long distance Ak but there are better platforms to use than that. I don't know much about weapons and silencers etc... (which is why I'm here) because the Coast Guard didn't really focus on that but they did focus on behaving and acting like a professional when dealing with the public and each other and that is what I see lacking. Just my pennies worth since I'm not up to 2 cents yet LOL
Pat

[Historian]

Why did that guy quit? He didn't like being portrayed as a moron, that's why. To him weapons building and related work was more important than a t.v. paycheck so he bailed. I wouldn't last 1/2 a day in there before I told someone to pack sand and I quit. But, that's "IF" the shop is really like that. And like has been mentioned, would a professional "really" want himself portrayed that way? Yes, he made a long distance Ak but there are better platforms to use than that. I don't know much about weapons and silencers etc... (which is why I'm here) because the Coast Guard didn't really focus on that but they did focus on behaving and acting like a professional when dealing with the public and each other and that is what I see lacking. Just my pennies worth since I'm not up to 2 cents yet LOL
Pat

Welcome, Pat. Indeed there is a cornucopia of history, anecdotes,technical
and expert information here.

Thank you for your service to our Great Nation. The unsung but so essential duties
the Coast Guard shoulders each day would astonish most folks.

Best.

[Baffled]

We've all smelled cordite, it's just not called cordite any more. It's called double-based smokeless powder.

Cordite is 58% nitroglycerine, by weight, 37% guncotton (nitrocellulose) and 5% petroleum jelly. Using acetone as a solvent,

Not that much difference between cordite (other than the shape) and many smokeless powders in use today.

[Historian]

We've all smelled cordite, it's just not called cordite any more. It's called double-based smokeless powder.

Cordite is 58% nitroglycerine, by weight, 37% guncotton (nitrocellulose) and 5% petroleum jelly. Using acetone as a solvent,

Not that much difference between cordite (other than the shape) and many smokeless powders in use today.

Thank you for the clarification.


Best.

[atilliar]

I certainly agree with most of you about Red Jacket. What are your opinions of Gunsmoke? They seem to have their s--t together to me but I am no gunsmith (yet).

[Conqueror]

I certainly agree with most of you about Red Jacket. What are your opinions of Gunsmoke? They seem to have their s--t together to me but I am no gunsmith (yet).

Is that a serious question or are you just stirring the pot for a laugh?

Most of Gunsmoke's ideas are also stolen and they charge roughly 5x what anything is worth. Rich Wyatt has had his share of legal trouble and his crew of gunsmiths seem like they couldn't machine their way out of a cardboard box.

[atilliar]

Well I'm sure that you know more about this then I do. And I haven't had the chance yet to get any AGI courses. However, from the first season (only one I've seen) except for maybe one or two episodes they seem to at least make sure everything works before showing it to a customer. Sure they make a big deal about how noone in the country has made X gun in so many years, which seems doubtful to me, and they never seem to show how accurate anything they make is.... ( I really hate exploding target demos for that reason) And they probably do charge too much, but at the end there stuff at least works and looks good. Unlike everything Red Jacket does. I'm certainly not trying to say that they are "omg the best evar" but they didn't leave the impression to me that they were a steaming pile either.

Thoughts?

[atilliar]

Oh... and on a side note, On the final episode of tat season when they had there shootout, I was extremely disappointed in all there shooting. I thought there skill in that area was laughable especially when they were all saying who well they were all doing and how great each of them were at shooting... Pitiful marksmanship performance.

[rimshaker]

I make a point of watching SOG only when cleaning firearms. Makes it feel less of a tedious chore. So in that regard, I think the show is great lol.

[joe0121]

Why did that guy quit? He didn't like being portrayed as a moron, that's why. To him weapons building and related work was more important than a t.v. paycheck so he bailed. I wouldn't last 1/2 a day in there before I told someone to pack sand and I quit. But, that's "IF" the shop is really like that. And like has been mentioned, would a professional "really" want himself portrayed that way? Yes, he made a long distance Ak but there are better platforms to use than that. I don't know much about weapons and silencers etc... (which is why I'm here) because the Coast Guard didn't really focus on that but they did focus on behaving and acting like a professional when dealing with the public and each other and that is what I see lacking. Just my pennies worth since I'm not up to 2 cents yet LOL
Pat

Long distance AK what a joke. I posted in the RJ forum the nigh that episode aired and simply asked if will had ever heard of the Dragonov. When I saw the episode I lost all hope for that show. As far as the shop? who knows maybe they do good work maybe not but I know if it was me I would want to look like a red neck ego maniac on TV even if I got paid.