Form 1 for a MG

[Baffled]

I know, I know, these will NOT be approved today.

But let's go back in time. It's 1985, and you have an approved form 1 to make a FA AR-15. Some guys did this, but rather than drill a sear hole, they used a DIAS, creating a so-called "married" sear gun. These have since been ruled as "improperly registered" by the ATF, claiming they are contraband, according to the Schramm letter.

It's now 2014. You are the original owner, and still have the weapon. You've got your Sporter, or Bushy, an approved Form 1 with the serial number of the lower, an unregistered DIAS, and a handful of M-16 parts.

Question - can you, or can you not, LEGALLY drill and mill that lower for a GI sear, and toss the DIAS into a dumpster. Remember, this is a FORM 1.

Discuss...

[rimshaker]

Logically, yes having a sear hole on that lower is legal. You have an approved F1 after all. Now theoretically, regarding any legal time limits...who can ever really prove WHEN the hole was drilled?

So basically, only one person should ever know about this....ever, lol.

[beanfield33]

I'm not sure I understand the details surrounding the married sear gun. However, if you have a title i ar-15 and then submit a form 1 to make an SBR, I don't think there's any requirement that you put a short barrel on it in a given time frame. Why would this be any different in terms of modifying the lower on a registered MG?

I was under the impression that the actual "manufacture" was legally done with the form 1 pre 86.

[Bendersquint]

I'm not sure I understand the details surrounding the married sear gun. However, if you have a title i ar-15 and then submit a form 1 to make an SBR, I don't think there's any requirement that you put a short barrel on it in a given time frame. Why would this be any different in terms of modifying the lower on a registered MG?

I was under the impression that the actual "manufacture" was legally done with the form 1 pre 86.

"Making" happens when the action is done NOT when the form is approved. this is why youcan get a refund on a tax stamp that hasnt been made. it had to have been made before the ban if it has the third hole.

ATF has said in the past even with an approved form1 that it was still the new mfg of a mg.

I had an opportunity to buy an M16 for $150 last year as it was a stripped AR receiver and never built into the M16 it was approved to be made into and ATF said it was illegal to drill the hole. I was going to buy it for its ridiculous factor but the owner decided to destroy the reciever and get his tax stamp refunded because it wasnt made.

That would definitly warrant a letter to the ATF to get their current opinion.

[beanfield33]

Interesting, thank you for the clarification.

[Jt.kline19]

I'm not sure I understand the details surrounding the married sear gun. However, if you have a title i ar-15 and then submit a form 1 to make an SBR, I don't think there's any requirement that you put a short barrel on it in a given time frame. Why would this be any different in terms of modifying the lower on a registered MG?

I was under the impression that the actual "manufacture" was legally done with the form 1 pre 86.

"Making" happens when the action is done NOT when the form is approved. this is why youcan get a refund on a tax stamp that hasnt been made. it had to have been made before the ban if it has the third hole.

ATF has said in the past even with an approved form1 that it was still the new mfg of a mg.

I had an opportunity to buy an M16 for $150 last year as it was a stripped AR receiver and never built into the M16 it was approved to be made into and ATF said it was illegal to drill the hole. I was going to buy it for its ridiculous factor but the owner decided to destroy the reciever and get his tax stamp refunded because it wasnt made.

That would definitly warrant a letter to the ATF to get their current opinion.

No one would have known if he didn't say anything.

[Baffled]

No one would have known if he didn't say anything.

That's the "wink wink" part of the deal. It would be illegal, but the form 1 does not specify HOW or WHEN the making occurred.

The form 1 does not have "converted with a DIAS" anywhere on it.

The bad news is this for guys with such a weapon... they are not uncommon, there are a handful or more out there. They have a form 4 or form 1. Yet the ATF has declared them "improperly registered", contraband, and the DIAS itself is a contraband machine gun. Rumors are out there of guys somehow un-marrying the DIAS and now having a registered sear, worth more than a conversion.

Talk about a screw job. I've seen several of these over the years trade hands for $10,000+

Caveat: Don't break the law.

[whiterussian1974]

Sadly, the US Sup Crt has repeatedly ruled to uphold the following concept:

-An Item is illegal to possess until Tax Stamp is paid, but legal once Tax is paid.
-The Tax Stamp "shall" be issued once the Tax is paid.
-In order to pay the tax on an Item, you must bring the untaxed item to the state Capitol Building, where it will be documented and Stamp issued.
-Citizen goes to capitol to comply w the Law, bringing the Item along for documentation.
-State Police confiscate Item, and arrest Citizen attempting to comply w Law.
-Citizen's neighbors must pay higher taxes in order to prosecute and warehouse Citizen for complying w Law.
(Ref: Kansas Marijuana Tax on hemp grown at Federal Gov't request to aid in Rope and other Fibers manufacture to assist War Effort.)

With regard to Form 1 refund: Too bad that the legal concept of "No Backsies" doesn't apply to paying for permission to exercise 2nd Amd.

What's next? Gov't FOR, BY and OF the People? You crazy, idealistic youngsters.
Go burn a bra. (full disclosure: I own stock in Vicky's Secret.)