This forum is getting a bit snarky

[jlwilliams]

I don't have a dog in the cop bashing fight. I'm not a cop. I have some as friends and relatives. I have also had two fairly close friends who each had an immediate family member killed by police in less than clear circumstances. What does that say about police? Nothing except that I have seen good and bad from police. That said and set aside for the moment, I think some people could bear to remember that this site is named SILENCERtalk, emphasis added to point out the patently obvious. We are here to talk about silencers. I'm not saying police brutality or the militarization of America's police are anything less than vital topics to our society. I'm saying it's off topic from the intended focus of the site. I can't speak for Rob Silvers, but I strongly suspect that if he'd wanted to discuss bad police he'd have registered his domain name differently than he did. Maybe someone with a passion for the topic should register a domain and host a bad-cop discussion forum. Threads along those lines could be discussed well and thoroughly there.

I am a member of another forum that has a few rules worth discussing here for a minute. It's a gun builder's site with the motto "builders helping builders". One rule is "no politics, no religion". That doesn't mean the owner or mods are apolitical or agnostic or atheist. It doesn't mean that religion or politics shouldn't be discussed at all, just not there. The underlying theory is that discussing those things creates rifts between members that interfere with conversations about building guns. Building guns is what the site is about, not about the political ramifications of that topic. Sure, 2nd amendment issues woven through the body politic may effect building guns. Go talk about that elsewhere on the web. Talk about the tools, techniques and materials on their site. Maybe we could have better silencer talking if this guys opinion of that guys career wasn't part of the conversation.

I'm not trying to be snarky here. I sincerely believe that the positions taken by some of our members would be better served by creating their own forums dedicated to their positions and this forum would benefit from culling the threads about outrages that have nothing to do with silencers, NFA or firearms. Random talk is cool, but when a recurring theme evolves, it makes sense to consider giving that recurring theme it's own place to be.

[doubloon]

The problem I see with at least part of this is politics is a very big part of the NFA game.

[jlwilliams]

The problem I see with at least part of this is politics is a very big part of the NFA game.

I'm not saying the no politics rule should play here, I'm pointing out that some topics can be talked about somewhere else and other forums do that to have more focused discussion. The carry over would be that police issues could be better hashed out somewhere other than here. They (the forum I mentioned) keep their gun building talk running smoothly by putting politics/religion off the table. Maybe we can talk silencers by putting the clearly divisive police abuse topic off the table.

I really think that the member most passionate about that topic should have a forum or blog of his own to dedicate his efforts to. He'll get better discussion and have a more meaningful podium if he creates one rather than ramrod the topic on a less than enthusiastic audience. I don't know what's already out there for bad-cop discussion boards, but joining an existing one or creating a new one seems more fruitful than posting it on a forum about something unrelated. (how does that topic relate to silencers and NFA?) I can certainly see how some bad cop stories should get onto the "news" sub forum, because it's news. It's clearly a facet of the news that some people are really, really passionate about. Doesn't that passion deserve it's own showcase?

I would like to say again; I think that the expansion and abuse of police power is an important topic. When any government entity oversteps the law that is anathema to this nation's founding principals. It's an important topic. The topic is ill served by piggybacking it onto a forum about dog grooming or about boats or about guns. It short changes this forum and it short changes the topic itself.

[poikilotrm]

For those of you without the testicular fortitude to be straightforward; the only reason that the Ten Crooked Cops thread exists is because a cop requested I create it and update it daily. You want to whine, whine to him.

He asked me to trumpet the truth about him and his. If he asks me to stop telling the truth about his kind, I will, no problem.

[doubloon]

I understand the subtlety of what you're saying and if the goal of the administrator(s) here is to build the most efficient and focused suppressor forum on the interwebs then I agree there are a number of changes that could be made and enforced. And it takes more manpower, coordination and dedication to accomplish this goal than is currently allocated to this task for ST. I believe it is only by virtue of the participation from some of the top experts in the industry, both professional and hobbyist, that this site manages to retain its value.

However, the addition of sub-forums related to Archery and Fishing, as an example, along with the earlier removal of the Sale/Trade sub-forum doesn't necessarily (to me) support for the notion that building the most 1337 Suppressor/NFA resource on the web is the end goal. The goal seems to be more one of auto-pilot and traffic generation.

Aside from that, I believe the Silencer/NFA sub-forums have historically stayed mostly on track with the occasional derail and d!*k measuring contest that goes with the territory of discussing topics which are as much, if not more, art and personal preference as they are science. The NFA topic on the whole is very subjective and prone to wander into pissing contests with metered and accuracy results being one of the few aspects of the field that has a slight chance of being nailed down objectively but are generally absent from this forum. Probably primarily because metering and accuracy in and of themselves are as much art an personal preference as anything else to do with this subject. It is almost a certainty that anyone who claims to have "THE" answer on any single one of these topics is either lying or operating in ignorance, JMHOYMMV.

I *think* most of the stuff/topics you're raising issue with has, in the past, managed to stay contained within the sub-forums which are now hidden/deleted and just like the channels on a TV if you don't like them then don't tune in seems like the simplest course of action.

The NCB&W, News and FS/T (maybe others) have been hidden/deleted and yet "non-NFA" sections like Art, Archery, Random Talk and Fishing (maybe others) still remain. And like a watermelon seed hiding/deleting some sections has caused less than optimum discussions to be squeezed into other forums.

So while I agree topics focusing on cop bashing have nothing really to do with NFA and my personal view is it has no place on the internet at all I choose to personally ignore the topic and the source because if I make that choice for you it's censorship and I'm as much a fan of censorship as I am of firearm registration/confiscation. (<- run on but not the only grammatical error here this post is a minefield for the grammar nannies)

That being said, it is a privately run site and not a State funded operation so the owner can choose to run this house however he sees fit and since the "we pull fewer posts than other sites." tag line is already way off in the ditch he may yet choose to anoint an army of enforcers to grant your wish.

[jlwilliams]

Poikilotrm, there is a difference between lacking testicular fortitude and practicing civility. I was straight forward enough that you put two and two together, and figured it wasn't twenty two. Nice try at spinning this into a personal smear against my manhood, but I think it's pretty clear that I'm laying out a logical position re topic focus and this has nothing to do with a chest drumming monkey dance.

I'm being sincere when I say that I think your passion for the bad-cop topic would be better served by hosting your own forum. So what if someone challenged you to a thread? How does it serve your point or this forum? Point is, you have a topic you are deeply personally invested in. You have already invested enough research time to create a respectable blog, or a discussion forum. Since you really care about the subject, don't you think it deserves it's own forum? You are articulate enough. You write in sentences instead of teen style texting shorthand. This is well within the scope of your ability.

Dude, you register the domain, build the site and I'll sign up to read it.

[bakerjw]

You haven't ignored him yet?

[Dr.K]

I spend most of my time in the silencersmithing forum, as that is my main objective with regards to NFA at this point in my life.

I find a bit of arrogance from time to time, but everyone has their reasons. I don't judge, and try to be fair in my exchanges, and most treat me with the amount of courtesy I offer.

The only real douche that I've had dealings with was that silencer kid that showed up. It's the only time I really stooped down to being stupid back and forth with someone on the internet, but I did it with all the respect I could muster.

[poikilotrm]

You haven't ignored him yet?

Not everyone is a pissant coward.

[bakerjw]

I know where you're coming from JL, but I look at it this way. When I go to the range and see other people with whom I'm acquainted, although we do talk about guns, we also talk about a lot of other things that go on in our lives. This place isn't so much different than that and it ends up being like that on almost every forum. You can only discuss certain topics for so long. After that it becomes a place to make friends and that is what Robert has done here. At least that's my opinion.

[paco ramirez]

Paco Ramirez left with GaLeo. They were buddies too, and when Galeo left -- due to an extraordinarily vigorous round of cop-bashing -- Paco left too.

And yet we still tolerate it. Those were some real good people to lose. Much better as contributors than the resident bashers.

I still talk to Paco. He was at SHOT with me this year. I suspect that he is still reading, people just don't post. I grew tired of posting myself.

Quite right.

[doubloon]

Hey Paco!

Nice random stuff.

[Hush]

viewtopic.php?t=40957

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=40957&start=25&sid= ... 0e8be2e852

Here you go, a blast from the past! the bottom url gets to the heart of the matter.
I miss the guy, he knew how to liven up a thread, hell, the whole damn forum.

[bakerjw]

Yeah Averolo was one snarky guy. Reading through that post I saw other names that are no longer here. smcharchan for one. He only posted 4 times last year. I miss his posts. Even though Sverolo was an irritating ass, he at least contributed in other subforums. It wasn't the incessant "blah blah blah All cops suck because blah blah blah" posts by another of the Leonard Embodys of the world. Lol. I remember when Leonard threatened me. What a douche. I even got to talk to some high level officials in the KSP over that moron.

Truth be told, if it wasn't for the fact that Robert's a great guy and has what I consider the best silencer resource on the web, I'd probably have left just like I did on the FalFiles. IMHO, if all you want to do in life is bash law enforcement, then go get your own damn domain to be your soapbox. Go spend the money to run a site and build up traffic and stand up for yourself and your right to be heard. Myself, I am sick of hearing it. But you see, that's not good enough because to have people listen to what you say and you have to build up traffic to your site for people to hear you. It is much easier to go where there is a high tolerance and post your mindless blather.

Sorry, I find that as I get older, my tolerance for idiots has been lessening more and more every day.
Rant off.

[Maser]

Quite right.





I haven't posted in some years so here's some pretty pictures of random stuff to go along.

[whiterussian1974]

I know where you're coming from JL, but I look at it this way. When I go to the range and see other people with whom I'm acquainted, although we do talk about guns, we also talk about a lot of other things that go on in our lives. This place isn't so much different than that and it ends up being like that on almost every forum. You can only discuss certain topics for so long. After that it becomes a place to make friends and that is what Robert has done here. At least that's my opinion.

Great Points.
Plus, it's good to have Forums within a Site that allow people to blow off steam.
If a thread is just backbiting, I leave for a more informative one.
But B&M Threads are a safety device, like a pressure relief valve. If I want to get angry, I read the Political and Legal Threads. Or maybe they make me laugh. Only "I" can decide what my response will be.
And some cops are cop bashers too. We get sick of the Abuse of Power that we see in our Depts. and how innocent people get railroaded by jerks w chips on their shoulder.
By speaking up against the bad apples, we preserve the Integrity of our Profession.

[whiterussian1974]

We used to be an exceptionally friendly forum, IMO, especially to new guys.

Is it just me, or has the tone gotten a bit mean, bullying at times, a bit harsh?

You're absolutely right. I'm saddened that many promising members NEVER post becasue they see how old hands treat Novices.
Even jackasses sometimes have flashes of insight.
We should cultivate new posters. Volunteers should mentor Newbies and direct them to useful threads. (As many have been extraordinarily helpful.) Sometimes people don't know which search terms to use or which Forum to Post in.
If someone doesn't like a Poster, just IGNORE them! Let them rant and rave. If noone responds, they will be even MORE upset at not getting attention. This technique is known as Shunning.