Integral for multiple host?

IslandTimes · Post by **IslandTimes** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:43 pm

Throwing some ideas around in my head. What are everyone's thoughts on an integral suppressor that can move between different hosts? My idea is to recontour the barrels on my AR and bolt gun to the same profile, and then add 30 caliber ports at 12 and 14 inches, with the barrel threads to mount the suppressor at about 10 inches?

Bendersquint · Post by **Bendersquint** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 4:33 pm

IslandTimes wrote:Throwing some ideas around in my head. What are everyone's thoughts on an integral suppressor that can move between different hosts? My idea is to recontour the barrels on my AR and bolt gun to the same profile, and then add 30 caliber ports at 12 and 14 inches, with the barrel threads to mount the suppressor at about 10 inches?

If the barrel is ported as part of the design of the silencer then the barrel would be considered a silencer part, meaning you couldn't swap its host as it would be extra silencer parts. If you ever needed to replace your barrel could only be replaced by an 07/02.

IslandTimes · Post by **IslandTimes** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 6:11 pm

Okay, that makes a lot of sense. And I hugely I appreciate the help in keeping me from running afoul of the government!

But what about the barrel porting like that on the MP5-SD? Several small ports to vent into the suppressor to cut velocity, with the suppressor extended past the muzzle 5-6"?

dark2023 · Post by **dark2023** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:25 pm

Is there any way to make a multi-caliber integral suppressor for a single gun?

a_canadian · Post by **a_canadian** » Sun Sep 28, 2014 11:37 pm

As in... swapping barrels and such to make one gun a multi-caliber gun?

Bendersquint · Post by **Bendersquint** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 12:00 am

Not if the barrels are ported.

gunny50 · Post by **gunny50** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 2:54 am

Bendersquint wrote:Not if the barrels are ported.

Bender is this related to where the barrels are ported? Close to the chamber , middle or at the muzzle?
If not what is the difference then of a barrel with brake that has an over the barrel silencer?

When is it considered a integral suppressor or over barrel silencer?

In my country the Silencers are divided in 2 classes, integral and take down silencers. The integral is a lower classification and is seen as a standard weapon.
You still need a special permit but its far easier than the silencers that can be taken of the gun with no special tooling.
Integral over here does not mean one has to port the barrel.

So the following comes to mind, not knowing if this is allowed in the US.

Short / medium barrel barrel with fixed / pinned / welded sleeve to make it legal length and in that sleeve goes a long over the barrel silencer.
Sleeve or barrel can have connecting threads for the silencer. That way I have build long silencers with free floating barrels inside them.
For free float you need to be really accurate on your machining but the big plus is no extra barrel vibrations / change in barrel harmonics, no POI shift.
I made a chamber / receiver mounted heat sleeve that held the free float tube and where the silencer was mounted to.

As mentioned above no clue if this is legal in US but would be here for more than one host, even with QD barrels as Silencer can be mounted to the tube with is integral part of the receiver when pinned / welded.

Gunny

Bendersquint · Post by **Bendersquint** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 10:23 am

Muzzle brakes no issue as that is their function.

Porting to bleed gases into a silencer and to reduce velocity is an issue.

So i guess the line is the pirpose of the ports. I have never seen ports not at the muzzle designed as a muzzle brake.

Capt. Link. · Post by **Capt. Link.** » Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:51 am

Bendersquint wrote:
IslandTimes wrote:Throwing some ideas around in my head. What are everyone's thoughts on an integral suppressor that can move between different hosts? My idea is to recontour the barrels on my AR and bolt gun to the same profile, and then add 30 caliber ports at 12 and 14 inches, with the barrel threads to mount the suppressor at about 10 inches?
If the barrel is ported as part of the design of the silencer then the barrel would be considered a silencer part, meaning you couldn't swap its host as it would be extra silencer parts. If you ever needed to replace your barrel could only be replaced by an 07/02.

I have great respect for you but disagree with this statement.A few years ago we purchased an estate that had a undocumented integral suppressor on a ported pistol.The ports were along the entire length of the barrel and threaded for the suppressor tube.The BATFE said that the tube must be destroyed and the packing's must be handled as a restricted item but the pistol and barrel has no ability to suppress anything and did not require destruction as ports are allowed in a barrel. In addition many rifles that use a two point mount would need to be declared a NFA item regardless of barrel length as the barrel is designed to function with the suppressor.This was our experience in dealing with the BATFE.

Capt. Link. · Post by **Capt. Link.** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:45 am

Ported for velocity reduction and threaded for a suppressor tube for sale in the USA.A ported barrel is not a suppressor part.

http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/MP5-SD-B ... Cq_9Vfp8Sk

Bendersquint · Post by **Bendersquint** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:57 am

Capt. Link. wrote:Ported for velocity reduction and threaded for a suppressor tube for sale in the USA.A ported barrel is not a suppressor part.

http://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/MP5-SD-B ... Cq_9Vfp8Sk

Well aware of that, just relaying what FTB told me when they rejected my cross platform integral design.

There are always exceptions to any rule.

Perfect example.....
AAC Piston = Silencer accessory.
YHM Piston = Silencer part.

Capt. Link. · Post by **Capt. Link.** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:11 am

Agreed but that dose not mean that the OP can't do what he proposed.One suppressor two or more hosts.Its been done in the past with rifles like the Styer and others that use a two point mount with a ported barrel.The suppressor puts tension on the barrel and the ports dump gas into the suppressor tube.We have a M-30 can 22" long designed for this unregulated system.There must have been something in the details of what you proposed that they did not like.

Addendum: The OP said integral and where what he proposed was a suppressor not married to a single host.If you offered it as a integral you might be able to release the suppressor separately and provide details on what modifications are required for it to fit.It would be little different than the odd o-ring sparrow barrel mod.

srs · Post by **srs** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 10:51 am

Capt. Link. wrote:Agreed but that dose not mean that the OP can't do what he proposed.One suppressor two or more hosts.Its been done in the past with rifles like the Styer and others that use a two point mount with a ported barrel.The suppressor puts tension on the barrel and the ports dump gas into the suppressor tube.We have a M-30 can 22" long designed for this unregulated system.There must have been something in the details of what you proposed that they did not like.

Or they had a bad day that day, or they just didn't like you, or any number of totally arbitrary things that the ATF is known for...

doubloon · Post by **doubloon** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:13 am

srs wrote:... totally arbitrary ... ATF ...

What is the opposite of oxymoron?

Dead on balls accurate?

CMV · Post by **CMV** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:23 am

I think they prefer capricious and find arbitrary offensive.

a_canadian · Post by **a_canadian** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:39 am

Or perhaps like Norman Stansfield put it in a different context with his line "Death is whimsical today." The ATF is full of whimsy.

srs · Post by **srs** » Tue Sep 30, 2014 11:40 am

CMV wrote:I think they prefer capricious and find arbitrary offensive.

I may use that quote next time I'm poking fun at one of my college buddies who works for ATF now. That is hilarious.

BTW, he is in the legal group and, while he can't comment on stuff at work, he rolls his eyes a lot when we discuss current events over beers.

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