I've been using 3/8 and 1/2 hss tooling for years because of the low cost and versatility. Always purchased as blanks and shaped on a belt sander / bench grinder.
On the occasion that i need to turn something hardened, i break out a brazed 1/2 carbide tool, but that need doesn't pop up very often. I've used the brazed carbide occasionaly on 4130 and 4140 but even at the slowest feed rate, with a .05 depth of cut and .004 feed per revolution, it leaves a decent surface finish but it seems to be taking way too much force for the lathe to feed it through the material. When feeding by hand, it takes about 4x the force to move the brazed carbide through the steel than hss. The brazed carbide cutters arent very sharp, and don't appear to have any rake.
I've never used insert type tooling and am considering buying a set. How well do the TCMT and CCMT insert type tooling work? I don't want to spend the money if they arent any better than brazed carbide. The appear to have a good about of rake, a chip breaker and look nice and sharp, but im just guessing about that since ive only seen pictures
How do they stack up to the brazed carbide type tooling?
Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?
Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?
02/07 FFL-SOT
- curtistactical
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Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?
You will never look back if you make the switch. I haven't used HSS or brazed tooling in 15 years. Look at the charts for the inserts you are buying to make sure they are designed for the material you plan on cutting. Smaller nose radius equals less cutting pressure and made more for finishing. I use a .0312 radius for roughing and a .0157 radius for finishing. The Kennametal top notch tooling is nice for threading and grooving. On manual lathes I prefer DNMG for roughing and VNMG for finishing. I use the TMxx tooling for boring bars.
Joseph Jones
Curtis Tactical
07/02
Curtis Tactical
07/02
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Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?
Try these http://www.arwarnerco.com/ best of both worlds.
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?
I love that there are HSS inserts available, thanks for the advice.
I ordered an AXA holder that takes the tcmt 3/8 triangle inserts. This one:
http://www.use-enco.com/1/1/33980-axa-1 ... lders.html
It uses the TMCT style traingular inserts, which appears to be very common with lots of options available.
And a selection of inserts in carbide and HSS from ARWarner. Thanks for the link BTW! Im eager to try them out.
I ordered an AXA holder that takes the tcmt 3/8 triangle inserts. This one:
http://www.use-enco.com/1/1/33980-axa-1 ... lders.html
It uses the TMCT style traingular inserts, which appears to be very common with lots of options available.
And a selection of inserts in carbide and HSS from ARWarner. Thanks for the link BTW! Im eager to try them out.
02/07 FFL-SOT
- L1A1Rocker
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Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?
Have you ever sharpened your carbide inserts? Also, have you ever tried 10% Cobalt HSS?
I use carbide inserts all the time but the first thing I do is put them on the diamond hone grinding wheel to touch them up. I've just recently started playing with the 10% Cobalt HSS in gearing up to turn some titanium.
I use carbide inserts all the time but the first thing I do is put them on the diamond hone grinding wheel to touch them up. I've just recently started playing with the 10% Cobalt HSS in gearing up to turn some titanium.
Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?
I've tried 10% cobalt drills, but not lathe tooling yet. I've been meaning to buy a diamond wheel to sharpen carbide, since i have a whole box of chipped and dull brazed lathe tooling. I'll still order a diamond wheel, but 10% cobalt blanks seem quite a bit more expensive than inserts.
I'll see if i can order a few just to try.
I'll see if i can order a few just to try.
02/07 FFL-SOT
Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?
Was in same boat when I was given a box of dull brazed tools from buddy's widow someken226 wrote:I've tried 10% cobalt drills, but not lathe tooling yet. I've been meaning to buy a diamond wheel to sharpen carbide, since i have a whole box of chipped and dull brazed lathe tooling. I'll still order a diamond wheel, but 10% cobalt blanks seem quite a bit more expensive than inserts.
I'll see if i can order a few just to try.
years ago. I found that a 'green wheel' also will work quite well
on an old SEARS Crapsman ...I mean Craftsman ... bench grinder.
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Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?
Silicon carbide grinder wheels or "green wheels" are very efficient for sharpening any kind of carbide bit. Way cheaper than diamond wheels
Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?
Once you get some holders and start using "real" insert tooling you'll tend to not use the brazed carbide tooling much, perhaps just for custom ground form tools. The inserts perform a lot better, particularly since most have chipbreaker profiles and they are supplied in a ready to run state vs. the brazed carbide tools which really need honing at a minimum before they work resonably well.
Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?
I have a lot of indexable tooling at my disposal, and while I tend to use it exclusively for turning to diameter, threading and facing to length, I still have a drawer full of carbide brazed and HSS/Cobalt tools with custom rakes, forms, and purposes.
They take up very little space and can make or break a project if you're able to grind what you need.
They take up very little space and can make or break a project if you're able to grind what you need.
- Bendersquint
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Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?
Completely agree.wp6529 wrote:Once you get some holders and start using "real" insert tooling you'll tend to not use the brazed carbide tooling much, perhaps just for custom ground form tools. The inserts perform a lot better, particularly since most have chipbreaker profiles and they are supplied in a ready to run state vs. the brazed carbide tools which really need honing at a minimum before they work resonably well.
All my brazed tools are in a pile now since I switched to indexable. If you look around the inserts can be found of high quality for low price.
FWIW the indexable tooling last in my experience alot longer than the brazed too.
- Bendersquint
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Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?
Just looked at Cpt Links' link...for those HSS prices you can buy quality carbide indexable inserts.ken226 wrote:I love that there are HSS inserts available, thanks for the advice.
I ordered an AXA holder that takes the tcmt 3/8 triangle inserts. This one:
http://www.use-enco.com/1/1/33980-axa-1 ... lders.html
It uses the TMCT style traingular inserts, which appears to be very common with lots of options available.
And a selection of inserts in carbide and HSS from ARWarner. Thanks for the link BTW! Im eager to try them out.
Personally while HSS is nice in some applications I go carbide before I think about HSS 99% of the time.
- Capt. Link.
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Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?
It's not cheap but 15% cobalt tools will take the shock and vibration that small lathes posses.Novice builders benefit from using HSS as its very forgiving and can be shaped to forms limited only by imagination.I think that everyone should at lease understand how to grind there own tools.
If Mr. B was not so modest he would post some of his work that only a top professional can do with carbide and huge amounts of skill.PM sent.
If Mr. B was not so modest he would post some of his work that only a top professional can do with carbide and huge amounts of skill.PM sent.
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?
I'll have to side with Bendersquint on this one, after you''ve tried proper inserts HSS becomes a 1% choice. If I need a tool that can't be bought or if it's for a one-time job HSS will always save the day, so start by learning how to grind a proper edge. But if it can be done with carbide that's what I'll choose every time. It's that much better.
Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?
For my home lathe I recently picked up a set of tools from Mesa tool (www.mesatool.com) and have been pretty happy with their DPGB-21.51 inserts their turning tools come with. In the shop I usually stick with the kennametal stuff like the tnmg's.
07/02 behind enemy lines
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Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?
I have a couple of AR Warner holders and inserts. I've got their ID/OD threading tool and the ones for CCMW inserts here: http://www.arwarnerco.com/p-15-kit-11-1 ... -hand.aspx
I don't recommend the threading tool. The OD side of the tool is okay, but laydown inserts are better and more available. The ID side of the tool is just dumb. You can't thread anything with a minor diameter less than 1.375, which is ludicrously large for the size (and rigidity) of the tool.
The CCMW holders are very nice, I use them constantly. The HSS inserts, on the other hand, I haven't used in months. Common CCMT and CCGT inserts fit in the holders too. One of the holders uses the obtuse corners of the inserts, which is a wonderful feature, particularly since it means I can take and use all the dull CCMT inserts from work.
If you don't have a huge sturdy lathe, you should be looking at CCGT inserts. They're usually very sharp and have a very positive rake, which reduces their propensity to cause chatter and gives a good finish.
I don't recommend the threading tool. The OD side of the tool is okay, but laydown inserts are better and more available. The ID side of the tool is just dumb. You can't thread anything with a minor diameter less than 1.375, which is ludicrously large for the size (and rigidity) of the tool.
The CCMW holders are very nice, I use them constantly. The HSS inserts, on the other hand, I haven't used in months. Common CCMT and CCGT inserts fit in the holders too. One of the holders uses the obtuse corners of the inserts, which is a wonderful feature, particularly since it means I can take and use all the dull CCMT inserts from work.
If you don't have a huge sturdy lathe, you should be looking at CCGT inserts. They're usually very sharp and have a very positive rake, which reduces their propensity to cause chatter and gives a good finish.
Andy Gamble
Binary Arms
07/02
Binary Arms
07/02
Re: Lathe tooling? HSS, Inserts and brazed carbide?
Here's what I use on my lathe. They worked on my old SB 9 as well as they do on my 12" Monarch. I like them because sharpening tools by hand sucks, it's not why I'm in the shop.
http://latheinserts.com/TOOLS-FOR-HOBBY-LATHES_c82.htm
http://latheinserts.com/TOOLS-FOR-HOBBY-LATHES_c82.htm