HELP turning titanium. Locking up.
- L1A1Rocker
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HELP turning titanium. Locking up.
Well, I finally started on the titanium build. It didn't last long.
I set the Grade 5 bar up in the headstock and steady rest and got ready to do a facing cut on the end. The brass fingers were set just like my other projects - the brass fingers were set to just touch the roundstock and locked down. My newly purchased mysting midget was aimed at the facing tool. I turned on the lathe and it ran just long enough for me to engage the cross-feed before the lathe locked up and stopped dead.
What appears to be happening is that the titanium (at the contact points of the steady rest) is heating up, expanding out, and binding on the steady rest.
Any suggestions?
I set the Grade 5 bar up in the headstock and steady rest and got ready to do a facing cut on the end. The brass fingers were set just like my other projects - the brass fingers were set to just touch the roundstock and locked down. My newly purchased mysting midget was aimed at the facing tool. I turned on the lathe and it ran just long enough for me to engage the cross-feed before the lathe locked up and stopped dead.
What appears to be happening is that the titanium (at the contact points of the steady rest) is heating up, expanding out, and binding on the steady rest.
Any suggestions?
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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.
Part off 3" sections and machine without the steady rest
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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.
I seriously doubt it is expanding and binding against the steady, it would have to be near white hot to have that much expansion to size up the lathe.
How far out were you machining that you needed to use a steadyrest?
How far out were you machining that you needed to use a steadyrest?
Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.
That and also make sure you Dont try and take lite cuts like Al. It will work harden real fast and in a hurry!john.t.little1 wrote:Part off 3" sections and machine without the steady rest
I flood the crap out of my cuts and Ti turns like a dream. After i found the correct inserts. The first two cones cost me an insert per cone.
Greg
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Fun begins at 28 Mills elevation
Oatman, Arizona, USA
Fun begins at 28 Mills elevation
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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.
What geometry are you using now?pyrofx wrote:That and also make sure you Dont try and take lite cuts like Al. It will work harden real fast and in a hurry!john.t.little1 wrote:Part off 3" sections and machine without the steady rest
I flood the crap out of my cuts and Ti turns like a dream. After i found the correct inserts. The first two cones cost me an insert per cone.
Greg
What geometry were you using before you found the good one?
Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.
You and Joe helpes me find them. We started with the cnmg and that wasnt so good.. But they were uncoated. Part of the problem . Went to Kennametal KC5025. They are pretty amazing . Get about an hour per edge.Bendersquint wrote:What geometry are you using now?pyrofx wrote:That and also make sure you Dont try and take lite cuts like Al. It will work harden real fast and in a hurry!john.t.little1 wrote:Part off 3" sections and machine without the steady rest
I flood the crap out of my cuts and Ti turns like a dream. After i found the correct inserts. The first two cones cost me an insert per cone.
Greg
What geometry were you using before you found the good one?
Greg
In Living Color Productions LLC
Oatman, Arizona, USA
Fun begins at 28 Mills elevation
Oatman, Arizona, USA
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- L1A1Rocker
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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.
That doesn't work so well on my old Atlas 12 x 36. I tried something like that with some stainless a long time ago. The work will wobble and on one occasion the work popped out of the jaws. IIRC the Atlas manual recommends a two point mount using the steady to better secure the work, and give more accurate work.john.t.little1 wrote:Part off 3" sections and machine without the steady rest
It's definitely binding in the steady some how. I can release the steady and the binding immediately stops. I moved the mysting midget over to the steady and it would run a lot longer before binding up. IIRC I once read somewhere to set up a steady with a peace of waxed paper (or some such) between the steadies fingers and the work to get the "correct" bearing. That may be worth a try I guess.Bendersquint wrote:I seriously doubt it is expanding and binding against the steady, it would have to be near white hot to have that much expansion to size up the lathe.
How far out were you machining that you needed to use a steadyrest?
I'm using 12 inch long Grade 5 "drops".
I recall reading that, just not how deep to actually cut it. Also run the rotation speed slow, and feed rate fast.pyrofx wrote:That and also make sure you Dont try and take lite cuts like Al. It will work harden real fast and in a hurry!john.t.little1 wrote:Part off 3" sections and machine without the steady rest
I flood the crap out of my cuts and Ti turns like a dream. After i found the correct inserts. The first two cones cost me an insert per cone.
Greg
Thanks for the replies folks. I'm going to try and give a bit of clearance between the steady and the work with a peace of waxed paper. I really didn't want to go with a set of roller fingers on the steady but that may be needed.
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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.
wrap part with 1 wrap coarse crocus cloth 1-2" wide grit side out
lube inside of cloth with lube oil
lightly snug fingers
cut all day without hurting fingers or part
lube inside of cloth with lube oil
lightly snug fingers
cut all day without hurting fingers or part
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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.
you think 1000 wet/dry paper would work?saigatechusa wrote:wrap part with 1 wrap coarse crocus cloth 1-2" wide grit side out
lube inside of cloth with lube oil
lightly snug fingers
cut all day without hurting fingers or part
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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.
I will put money on it that the steady rest fingers are expanding or siezing NOT the titanium
Why not chop into short block and skip the steadyrest? I would never just run a 12" section and make a baffle on the end of it.
Why not chop into short block and skip the steadyrest? I would never just run a 12" section and make a baffle on the end of it.
Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.
As others have said I would wager that your problem lies with your steady rest.
I just spun my titanium tube in my steady rest without any issues. I did indicate the tube end in within .001" run-out then adjusted my steady rest pads to make light contact with the tube and double checked the run out after the pads were locked in place. I used some way lube oil on the pads & tube for lube.
I just spun my titanium tube in my steady rest without any issues. I did indicate the tube end in within .001" run-out then adjusted my steady rest pads to make light contact with the tube and double checked the run out after the pads were locked in place. I used some way lube oil on the pads & tube for lube.
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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.
Great opportunity for a general shop project.
Spend some time turning something like this with solid bronze resting points:
Into something like this with bearings:
Never worry about heat expansion or marking a finished surface again.
Spend some time turning something like this with solid bronze resting points:
Into something like this with bearings:
Never worry about heat expansion or marking a finished surface again.
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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.
I got news for you.
Roller bearings will mark a finished surface, just differently than pads.
They will warm up, too, if your part is either quite heavy (probably not applicable here), or you're running a pretty good speed. Not really hot, but warm, depending on bearing size versus material size.
I have run leather strap in between very large, heavy parts and pads, because the friction would burn grease right out in minutes. Never tried it with titanium, but may be worth a try. Oil it real well on the material side, and clamp the ends between the upper and lower halves of the rest body. Because of the thickness, it will settle some in the beginning.
When doing my Ti suppressor, I did have problems with threading the tube using a steady rest and pads, but tubing expands much more rapidly than bar stock.
It may be more of a friction problem than heat expansion, as I find it hard to believe that bar stock would expand that much before you even got started cutting. The two materials may be galling, which would lock up the machine pretty quick, and only take surface heat.
Roller bearings will mark a finished surface, just differently than pads.
They will warm up, too, if your part is either quite heavy (probably not applicable here), or you're running a pretty good speed. Not really hot, but warm, depending on bearing size versus material size.
I have run leather strap in between very large, heavy parts and pads, because the friction would burn grease right out in minutes. Never tried it with titanium, but may be worth a try. Oil it real well on the material side, and clamp the ends between the upper and lower halves of the rest body. Because of the thickness, it will settle some in the beginning.
When doing my Ti suppressor, I did have problems with threading the tube using a steady rest and pads, but tubing expands much more rapidly than bar stock.
It may be more of a friction problem than heat expansion, as I find it hard to believe that bar stock would expand that much before you even got started cutting. The two materials may be galling, which would lock up the machine pretty quick, and only take surface heat.
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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.
Dumb question, but gotta ask, do you have a bearing surface on the stock for the fingers to run on? If you're trying to put something with a rough or out-of-round surface in a 3-finger steady that will cause issues. If you don't have a good bearing surface & don't have a way to make one you can use a cat head and then use it as a bearing surface for the steady.
It will probably lead to more material waste, but if it were me, I'd get the stock cut into smaller pieces & not dick around with all that setup & tinkering needed to work that far away from the chuck. You'll need a shop with a decent bandsaw & experience cutting Ti stock. An abrasive chop saw won't do it (but will put on a brilliant display if you try ) My local metal yard charges $10/cut which sounds like a lot but it takes time & not at all hard to wreck a blade.
It will probably lead to more material waste, but if it were me, I'd get the stock cut into smaller pieces & not dick around with all that setup & tinkering needed to work that far away from the chuck. You'll need a shop with a decent bandsaw & experience cutting Ti stock. An abrasive chop saw won't do it (but will put on a brilliant display if you try ) My local metal yard charges $10/cut which sounds like a lot but it takes time & not at all hard to wreck a blade.
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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.
I just got in from turning 1.75" titanium round stock in my little Smithy on a bronze fingered steady rest. I turned it for about 2 hours, occasionally squirting a little 30w oil onto the turning path. No problems at all with the steady rest.
Now, as to the cutting tool attrition and frequent re-sharpening, that's a whole nother story!
Now, as to the cutting tool attrition and frequent re-sharpening, that's a whole nother story!
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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.
If you are using coolant or the proper geometries that is mitigated. I get phenomenal time out of my indexables.plodder wrote: Now, as to the cutting tool attrition and frequent re-sharpening, that's a whole nother story!
Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.
What were you lubing the contact points with?L1A1Rocker wrote:Well, I finally started on the titanium build. It didn't last long.
I set the Grade 5 bar up in the headstock and steady rest and got ready to do a facing cut on the end. The brass fingers were set just like my other projects - the brass fingers were set to just touch the roundstock and locked down. My newly purchased mysting midget was aimed at the facing tool. I turned on the lathe and it ran just long enough for me to engage the cross-feed before the lathe locked up and stopped dead.
What appears to be happening is that the titanium (at the contact points of the steady rest) is heating up, expanding out, and binding on the steady rest.
Any suggestions?
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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.
Sounds like you need a good 4 jaw chuck.
What size chuck does it use
What size chuck does it use
Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.
I've never had these issues! I do use a steady now and then, but mine has bearings. I can imagine the frustration though! Will it not fit through the spindle bore?
Kyle O.
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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.
If the pairing between work and chuck is solid enough to seize the lathe, why would he need a different chuck?Samson104 wrote:Sounds like you need a good 4 jaw chuck.
What size chuck does it use
I believe its an Atlas 9"? He mentioned it in his build thread.Dr.K wrote:I've never had these issues! I do use a steady now and then, but mine has bearings. I can imagine the frustration though! Will it not fit through the spindle bore?
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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.
A better chuck may allow him the get a better bite on his part preventing the need for a steady rest to provide lateral stability
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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.
Won't help, cutting titanium 8+ inches away from the chuck would need a steady.Samson104 wrote:A better chuck may allow him the get a better bite on his part preventing the need for a steady rest to provide lateral stability
Can't eliminate deflection.
Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.
If your steady diameter is large enough you could machine a 1/8" ± thick SS ringL1A1Rocker wrote:Well, I finally started on the titanium build. It didn't last long.
I set the Grade 5 bar up in the headstock and steady rest and got ready to do a facing cut on the end. The brass fingers were set just like my other projects - the brass fingers were set to just touch the roundstock and locked down. My newly purchased mysting midget was aimed at the facing tool. I turned on the lathe and it ran just long enough for me to engage the cross-feed before the lathe locked up and stopped dead.
What appears to be happening is that the titanium (at the contact points of the steady rest) is heating up, expanding out, and binding on the steady rest.
Any suggestions?
that slips onto the Ti tube; lube the fingers. Saw this trick so long ago in 1956
by Institute's machinist who working on a long thin walled metal tube ( ~ 12" ).
I once threaded a polycarbonate tube to make
my own darkroom water filter holder with the equatorial ring.
Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.
Which is why it should be cut off and cut closer to the chuck , general rule is1.5x the stock diameter hanging out of the chuck.Bendersquint wrote:Won't help, cutting titanium 8+ inches away from the chuck would need a steady.Samson104 wrote:A better chuck may allow him the get a better bite on his part preventing the need for a steady rest to provide lateral stability
Can't eliminate deflection.
so we are assuming that the spindle bore is not big enough for the round stock
- L1A1Rocker
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Re: HELP turning titanium. Locking up.
I think I'll give that a try.saigatechusa wrote:wrap part with 1 wrap coarse crocus cloth 1-2" wide grit side out
lube inside of cloth with lube oil
lightly snug fingers
cut all day without hurting fingers or part
That doesn't work so well on my old Atlas 12 x 36. I tried something like that with some stainless a long time ago. The work will wobble and on one occasion the work popped out of the jaws. IIRC the Atlas manual recommends a two point mount using the steady to better secure the work, and give more accurate work.Bendersquint wrote:I will put money on it that the steady rest fingers are expanding or siezing NOT the titanium
Why not chop into short block and skip the steadyrest? I would never just run a 12" section and make a baffle on the end of it.
See above response. Plus, the nearest "local" metal yard for me is probably more than 100 miles away. (I'm in the Texas Hill Country - boonies)CMV wrote:Dumb question, but gotta ask, do you have a bearing surface on the stock for the fingers to run on? If you're trying to put something with a rough or out-of-round surface in a 3-finger steady that will cause issues. If you don't have a good bearing surface & don't have a way to make one you can use a cat head and then use it as a bearing surface for the steady.
It will probably lead to more material waste, but if it were me, I'd get the stock cut into smaller pieces & not dick around with all that setup & tinkering needed to work that far away from the chuck. You'll need a shop with a decent bandsaw & experience cutting Ti stock. An abrasive chop saw won't do it (but will put on a brilliant display if you try ) My local metal yard charges $10/cut which sounds like a lot but it takes time & not at all hard to wreck a blade.
Re Bearing serface: I'm just putting in the roundstock and going with the procedures oulined in the Atlas Manual. I have no idea how to machine a bearing surface on roundstock without first doing what I'm trying to so. No idea what a "cat's head" is either.