Is there a reason there aren't any fully dimensioned prints floating around?

[sspbass]

Is it a liability issue? A hording of knowledge issue? A legal issue? Perhaps it's just that not many people have access to CAD software.
Just curious as I'd like to share my design but don't want to open up myself to unnecessary risk.
Part of me thinks it's ridiculous how everyone is always so worried about getting sued and the other part of me is worried about getting sued

[king9]

I thought I saw 1 or 2 on grab cad

[Wicked]

I asked this same question 5 years ago when I got here. Still no good answer. No, it's not a liability issue. I see a lot of 'SolidWorks' 3-D type stuff being put up, but obviously they aren't dimensioned. Honestly, I don't believe those ever get built. Just fancy ideas in someone's head they put on the computer. I think many actual F1 builders don't have access to CAD programs and besides were only building one. Most are likely done 'seat-o-the-pants' from rough ideas/general dimensions. There are a few real prints flying around, but there is no central place for them.

Now that I've been here for a while, I can see that a lack of drawings may actually be a good thing. It forced me to slow down. I had to research, ask questions and learn. See where I'm going? I turned out to be a much more extensive process than I imagined. I got something out of the whole design/build process, I didn't just turn up some parts that made a suppressor. My build is mine. I designed it, and I built it. Sure there are many design elements and general principles used by others;but there are no others like mine. It works great. I shared what I built so others could benefit. The best we can offer is a collection of completed F1 suppressors is here:viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895&sid=863fc40c ... cfd8ba8dbb

[mr fixit]

I'll take a stab at an answer, it's worth what you paid for it, and understand I'm fairly new to this;

First, the major and even minor manufacturers are not going to be giving away their secrets. You're asking them to tell the world, and by default their competition, the secrets that they use to get those last few precious decibels reduced. So why doesn't someone else print their plans? Patents, and patent infringement. (Yes even if you only make it for yourself and have no plan of making a profit or selling it, it is still illegal)

Second, what you want in a can and what I want in a can are likely to be very different. One guy wants light weight and will sacrifice sound reduction. The next guy wants ultimate reduction of sound and doesn't care if he has a 3 pound brick on the end of his rifle. Some go for shorter, some for longer. And then there are the mounting options.

Third, what works for a .22 rimfire might not work for a .308. Different host weapons need different designs to work to max effectiveness. For that matter, what might work on a 20" ar15 might not be as effective or long lasting on a 10.5" 5.56 SBR.

There isn't a one size fits all, so there can't be a single set of plans.

As far as liability or fear of getting sued, there is some validity in that. I think most, probably all here tend to police ourselves. What I mean is that so far everyone here has been very helpful to me and others when they know that I am doing it legal. The truth is that folks in the NFA world are a very small portion of the population, and are watched very closely by not only the law/regulatory agencies but also other shooters who don't play with NFA toys. WE tend to police ourselves lest we give a reason for anyone else to come in and do it for us.

And finally, to be honest, you don't need plans. An empty can on the end of a barrel will reduce sound. Not a lot, and you wont be happy, but it will reduce sound. To make it better, add baffles inside the can, any baffles. Flat baffles, curved baffles, slant baffles, pressed baffles. All will work to a degree. How well they work is determined by how well they are made, and which type is used with which type of host firearm.

I have no real evidence to support what I'm about to say but, I would wager that any tube/baffle combo you could possibly make would make somewhere in the 5-10Db reduction. That's not much, that's not what you want I'm sure. What folks here are working for is to find a way to get into the 20+ Db reductions, even the 30+ Db reductions. It can be done, but not by a single set of 'one size fits all' plan.

Let me put it another way, replace silencer with shoes. Ask yourself "why isn't there a set a plans for shoes floating around?" The answer is the same: Because it depends on what size you wear, what type you want, what material you use, what use you have for them and what expectations you have. Everyone wants a different pair.

Hope this helps, just my ramblings sitting waiting on the coffee to perk at work.

[Griz]

From my point of view as a hobby machinist but not a silencer expert, I greatly appreciate the folks who post detailed drawings and report on how well it worked out.

A form 1 can is a huge risk as to how well it will turn out so being able to start with something that is known to work and only have to cutomize it a little makes the odds of a happy outcome much better.

[T-Rex]

From my point of view as a hobby machinist but not a silencer expert, I greatly appreciate the folks who post detailed drawings and report on how well it worked out.

A form 1 can is a huge risk as to how well it will turn out so being able to start with something that is known to work and only have to cutomize it a little makes the odds of a happy outcome much better.

Your absolutely right, but this is the "Silencermithing" forum not the "Copysmithing" forum.

If anyone puts their time and effort into researching there are plenty of designs to go by. If they just go by someone else's plans, and it doesn't perform as they wish, they'll, not only be back here asking for help after the fact, but not have the skills and or knowledge to improve on "their" design.

You can find data on wall thickness for weld cans vs threaded.
You can find data on clearance tolerances for baffle to wall and bore dimensions.
You can find data on which material is best for X application.
You can find data on acceptable baffle thicknesses for different materials.
You can find data on which baffles types are going to work better on subs vs supers, etc.
You can find data on commonly used baffle angles.
You can find a myriad of pictures, models and sketches to work from.

If you feel you have the ability and skills to machine the parts and build your Form 1, you should be able to put all these available items into your own design. If you wish to share it, as whole, that is your business. I like coming here to see all the designs the members come up with to get others ideas and incorporate it into a "group" project. The "Silencersmithing" section would lose that which makes it unique if it became a place to get "off-the-shelf" plans.

[Bendersquint]

Mr Fixit nailed it and T-Rex put the finishing touches on it.

[sspbass]

I personally enjoy sharing what I've learned with others about as much as I enjoyed learning it in the first place. If I had been just given the dimensions I would have to agree that I wouldnt be as proud of it as I am but like has been stated. There are many different ways to design these things so even if I did find prints it's likely that I would have modified to fit my application. In the end ill probably share my knowledge and people can do.with it.what they will.

[CMV]

The other guys summed it up well but these are my thoughts.

1. Many form-1 builds have no formal drawings. Some guys CAD away, but others - me at least - make notes & sketches, then machine parts. I'm not planning to make a batch of the same suppressor so there's no need for me to do detailed drawings & step-by-step instructions. I know what I want to do so I don't need more than that to get the end result.

2. If I (or whoever) made a print for something, and a materials list, and took pictures, and posted a video, and made a 30 point FAQ, would still get "can I make it out of silly putty instead?" "can I make the bore square instead of round?" "what if I increased the diameter by 2" and the overall length by 6"?" etc. If there was a great package ready for you to copy & paste, people would still ask a bazillion questions rather than just follow it.

3. Whoever made it would make it for their tools and skills. What happens when that plan calls for parts that must be milled, or must be welded, or must be threaded, or must be _______ (insert whatever machine/skill/tooling you lack)?

4. I keep toying with the idea of doing a "community build". I take one of my stamps collecting dust, throw up a design, everyone decides what to do, I make & document it, and we call it the ST Silencersmithing Model 1. Everyone can copy a good build with all the info they need. And the idea keeps popping into my head as something that would be fun to do. But every time I think about it, I can see it getting all crapped up by the 50% of members here who have opinions & advice on every little thing but haven't built a single can. Or else we do all that work, make a good product and easy to follow plan to duplicate it & it gets all crapped trying to shortcut it with eBay DIY felon kit parts, freeze plugs, crappy scrap material, etc.

There are plenty of good write-ups here. I tried to document a build well enough for others to follow & duplicate. Kyle did a great job documenting his .308 or 300BLK build. Enfield, Shift1, & many others have done the same. Wicked does an excellent job maintaining the completed builds thread where anyone with a little poking around can find 99% of whatever they need & then ask for the remaining 1% that they still don't know.

I've never PMed another member asking a specific question about his build & got told to F-off. I've never withheld anything I've learned when asked directly unless it was something someone asked me not to share publicly. Don't expect anyone with an Industry Professional tag or 02/07 signature line to give up a lot of specifics. This is their livelihood so sharing trade secrets wouldn't be great for business. They will keep you from doing something aggressively stupid or dangerous though.

But there is a member here (sometimes & under many different names) who will sell you all the prints you want.

[Griz]

You could look at dimensioned prints like open source software. You don't re-write the OS for every new project, you don't even re-write common functions. You use open source code as the foundation and then build your project on that. You contribute back any fixes and fork the project if you take it in a different direction.

I'm not saying all of the information isn't out there already, but it's nice to see a fully dimensioned completed build. The "Links to Completed Builds" is a fantastic resource, but sometimes all you get is glamor shots