300 blackout build complete

Yes, it can be legal to make a silencer. For everything Form-1, from silencer designs that are easily made, to filing forms with the BATF, to 3D modeling. Remember, you must have an approved BATF Form-1 to make a silencer. All NFA laws apply.

Moderators: mpallett, bakerjw

User avatar
fishman
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:15 pm

300 blackout build complete

Post by fishman »

my first form 1 is complete, also my first NFA item.

30 caliber 11" x 1.625"
.065" wall grade 9 titanaium tube. 28 TPI threads on endcaps.
316 stainless steel endcaps
17-4 stainless steel blast spacer and baffle
grade 5 titanium k baffles

welded to a 10.5" 300 blackout barrel for a 1 stamp SBR. endcap is pinned to the tube and welded.

rifle length yankee hill diamond quad rail handguard, 1.75" ID

i dont know what it weighs because its welded to a barrel and assembled into a rifle, however im guessing it weighs about 32 oz (Edit: 26 oz). this upper weighs almost exactly as much as my 20" .223 heavy barrel upper and the .223 upper has a lighter handguard. I know i couldve made it lighter, but this is mostly a range toy and maybe a hunting rifle for still hunting coyotes at night, I dont mind the weight, the gun actually has very nice balance and aims steady.

all that is left to do is test fire and have it cerakoted.

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Last edited by fishman on Thu Jul 26, 2018 12:33 pm, edited 4 times in total.
300 blackout form 1: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137293

5.56 form 1:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=141800&p=955647#p955647
User avatar
fishman
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:15 pm

Re: 300 blackout build complete

Post by fishman »

all turning and threading was done on a very small Sherline lathe.

Image

dont let anyone tell you you cant cut g5 titanium dry or with High Speed Steel. you can. tap magic cutting fluid helped tool life though.

threads were cut with a solid carbide tool. 1 thou per pass. 3 in 1 oil used as lube.
Image

milling the 45 degree cuts on my school's bridgeport. this fixture had terrible rigidity.
Image

solidoworks flow analysis
Image
Last edited by fishman on Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
300 blackout form 1: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137293

5.56 form 1:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=141800&p=955647#p955647
User avatar
whiterussian1974
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2857
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:37 pm
Location: On 8th line of eye chart.

Re: 300 blackout build complete

Post by whiterussian1974 »

:idea: Perfectly illustrated design, process, and finished Product.
Bravo Brother! :mrgreen:

Would you try flow analysis with each K flipped 180* so that they alternate orientations? That's what Curtis Tactical and Capt Link suggest for best performance.
The Darkest Corners of Hell are reserved for those who remain Neutral!-Dante
The Death of One is a Tragedy, a million only a statistic.-Stalin
silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=135314
User avatar
fishman
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:15 pm

Re: 300 blackout build complete

Post by fishman »

whiterussian1974 wrote::idea: Perfectly illustrated design, process, and finished Product.
Bravo Brother! :mrgreen:

Would you try flow analysis with each K flipped 180* so that they alternate orientations? That's what Curtis Tactical and Capt Link suggest for best performance.
thank you

i did that, the flow was much less turbulent. solidworks FlowXpress is only capable of continuous flow analysis, so it doesnt model a silencer too well, but from what ive seen, i'd guess orienting them all the same would work better. i'll have to try it and see.
300 blackout form 1: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137293

5.56 form 1:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=141800&p=955647#p955647
User avatar
fishman
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:15 pm

Re: 300 blackout build complete

Post by fishman »

whiterussian1974 wrote:Would you try flow analysis with each K flipped 180* so that they alternate orientations? That's what Curtis Tactical and Capt Link suggest for best performance.
i just ran it again in the alternate configuration

Image
Image

i think they both look good

EDIT:
"I honestly have found k baffle orientation to have little effect on suppression" - curtistactical
Last edited by fishman on Wed Aug 23, 2017 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
300 blackout form 1: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137293

5.56 form 1:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=141800&p=955647#p955647
User avatar
T-Rex
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1865
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:38 pm
Location: CT - The AntiConstitution State

Re: 300 blackout build complete

Post by T-Rex »

Nice job fish.
Too bad the endcap isn't Ti or you could have done some anodizing or flame coloring :)

Waiting for field test....
Completed Builds www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79895
Burst Calculator www.engineersedge.com/calculators/pipe_bust_calc.htm
Silencer Porn www.instagram.com/explore/tags/silencerporn/
daPhoosa
Silent Operator
Posts: 64
Joined: Sun May 03, 2015 11:14 pm

Re: 300 blackout build complete

Post by daPhoosa »

Nice looking build!

If you have it modeled in solid works, it should give you a pretty good estimate of the weight without the barrel.
My form 1 build: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=136387
User avatar
fishman
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:15 pm

Re: 300 blackout build complete

Post by fishman »

daPhoosa wrote:Nice looking build!

If you have it modeled in solid works, it should give you a pretty good estimate of the weight without the barrel.
good idea, i forgot about that. solidworks says 26 oz.
300 blackout form 1: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137293

5.56 form 1:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=141800&p=955647#p955647
BlogSarge
Silent Operator
Posts: 85
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:46 pm

Re: 300 blackout build complete

Post by BlogSarge »

Thanks for posting up your project. It looks sweet.

I know pretty much nothing of working in metals, so I find this stuff equal parts fascinating and voodoo craft. Still, it is cool to see how people design and build their own can. I might have to try it some time in my neighbor's shop.
User avatar
fishman
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:15 pm

Re: 300 blackout build complete

Post by fishman »

I just got back from the range. I'm very pleased with the performance. I haven't shot many suppressed guns so I don't have a great comparison of how quiet it is. I had the gas block closed so that I could hear how well the silencer worked without action noise. It's very comfortable to shoot without hearing protection. Absolutely no ear ringing even after 25 shots. It was much much quieter than the 16" 300 blackout I shot previously with a silencerco osprey 45. Much quieter than an unsupressed .22LR. Pulling the bolt back and loading a round was louder than the shot. From 50 yards away, it sounds about as loud as if the shooter sneezed. I wish I had a meter so I could give you guys numbers on it. FRP was unnoticeable. I'm very very pleased with the results, it exceeded my expectations.

Edit: heres my 50 yard group off sandbags with American eagle 220 grain and sig Sauer 220 grain ammo.
Image
Last edited by fishman on Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
300 blackout form 1: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137293

5.56 form 1:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=141800&p=955647#p955647
User avatar
John_TX
Member
Posts: 42
Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 5:44 pm

Re: 300 blackout build complete

Post by John_TX »

Nice build! That's about the group I get with my 11" seven cone can. I'm good with no ear protection using supersonic ammo on my 300 Blackout. Machining Ks is a bunch of work over a cone, a tip of the hat to you.
When you come to a fork in the road, take it.
User avatar
fishman
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:15 pm

Re: 300 blackout build complete

Post by fishman »

Got it back from getting cerakoted today, finally done.
Image
Last edited by fishman on Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
300 blackout form 1: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137293

5.56 form 1:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=141800&p=955647#p955647
Ghost-Delta
New Member
Posts: 8
Joined: Sun Dec 11, 2016 10:11 am
Contact:

Re: 300 blackout build complete

Post by Ghost-Delta »

The machine work looks excellent, very nice finish as well. Where did you send it for cerakote if you don't mind my asking?
www.julietdeltacustoms.com

Juliet Delta Customs- Custom machined solvent traps, cups, direct thread mounts, and much more.

[email protected] or [email protected]
User avatar
bakerjw
Elite Member
Posts: 3622
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2007 8:13 am
Location: NE Tenn.

Re: 300 blackout build complete

Post by bakerjw »

Fantastic workmanship.

I am curious to any effect that the baffle alignment might have on accuracy. I wonder, if the cutouts were aligned with bullet rotation based on rifling (1 in 12 as an example), would that induce some wobble. Alternately if they were random or opposite of the the rifling. You might play around with it and see if you can hit a real sweet spot.
July 5th, 2016. The day that we moved from a soft tyranny to a hard tyranny.
User avatar
T-Rex
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1865
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:38 pm
Location: CT - The AntiConstitution State

Re: 300 blackout build complete

Post by T-Rex »

fishman wrote: it exceeded my expectations.
Than you have succeeded!! :wink:

Any post shooting pics, of the baffles, to show carbon deposits/flow patterns?
Completed Builds www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79895
Burst Calculator www.engineersedge.com/calculators/pipe_bust_calc.htm
Silencer Porn www.instagram.com/explore/tags/silencerporn/
BinaryAndy
Silent Operator
Posts: 99
Joined: Tue May 06, 2014 4:05 pm
Location: Lancaster County, PA

Re: 300 blackout build complete

Post by BinaryAndy »

Nice work, especially given that it was done on a Sherline.
Andy Gamble
Binary Arms
07/02
User avatar
fishman
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:15 pm

Re: 300 blackout build complete

Post by fishman »

Ghost-Delta wrote:The machine work looks excellent, very nice finish as well. Where did you send it for cerakote if you don't mind my asking?
Curtistactical
300 blackout form 1: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137293

5.56 form 1:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=141800&p=955647#p955647
User avatar
fishman
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:15 pm

Re: 300 blackout build complete

Post by fishman »

BinaryAndy wrote:Nice work, especially given that it was done on a Sherline.
The sherline does great work, it's a quality machine. It just does great work very slowly. Cutting titanium and 17-4 of that diameter was about as much as this lathe could handle, it would stall if I tried to take a cut much bigger than .020" at a good feed rate for titanium.
300 blackout form 1: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137293

5.56 form 1:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=141800&p=955647#p955647
User avatar
fishman
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:15 pm

Re: 300 blackout build complete

Post by fishman »

bakerjw wrote:Fantastic workmanship.

I am curious to any effect that the baffle alignment might have on accuracy. I wonder, if the cutouts were aligned with bullet rotation based on rifling (1 in 12 as an example), would that induce some wobble. Alternately if they were random or opposite of the the rifling. You might play around with it and see if you can hit a real sweet spot.
Honestly, 300 blackout isn't even really intended for shots past 100 yards, I'm fine with that group size. Maybe my handloads will perform better. I didn't expect much from American eagle ammo.
300 blackout form 1: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137293

5.56 form 1:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=141800&p=955647#p955647
User avatar
Capt. Link.
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 2829
Joined: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:05 pm
Location: USA.

Re: 300 blackout build complete

Post by Capt. Link. »

You have the patience of a saint cutting those alloys on a Sherline.

Any particular reason you cut the rear port old school style.

It looks to be a very solid build congratulations.

-CL
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
User avatar
fishman
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:15 pm

Re: 300 blackout build complete

Post by fishman »

Capt. Link. wrote:Any particular reason you cut the rear port old school style.
I liked the way that when I cut the port that way, it created a lot of asymmetry in the waist of the k baffle. I think this way does a better job of letting the cross-bore jet of gasses from the scoop cut direct the main flow away from the bore axis. I obsessed over the k design for months before I was happy with it. I took a lot of inspiration from the aac tirant k baffle design, and joe jones' (curtis tactical) k design. Joe cuts his baffles this way too.
300 blackout form 1: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137293

5.56 form 1:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=141800&p=955647#p955647
User avatar
fishman
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:15 pm

Re: 300 blackout build complete

Post by fishman »

T-Rex wrote:
fishman wrote: it exceeded my expectations.
Than you have succeeded!! :wink:

Any post shooting pics, of the baffles, to show carbon deposits/flow patterns?
They don't tell much of a story. The blackest part is the inside of the skirt on the opposite side of the waist vent. They're pretty evenly covered besides that.

Inside skirts
Image

Front faces
Image
Last edited by fishman on Wed Aug 23, 2017 1:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
300 blackout form 1: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137293

5.56 form 1:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=141800&p=955647#p955647
User avatar
T-Rex
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1865
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:38 pm
Location: CT - The AntiConstitution State

Re: 300 blackout build complete

Post by T-Rex »

Placing in order and noting the difference in carbon deposits will tell a tale. So will looking at the deposits on the outer skirt, for flow pattern/path.

Might offer something you could use on another build or for comparison on the effects of different K features.
Completed Builds www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79895
Burst Calculator www.engineersedge.com/calculators/pipe_bust_calc.htm
Silencer Porn www.instagram.com/explore/tags/silencerporn/
User avatar
fishman
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1444
Joined: Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:15 pm

Re: 300 blackout build complete

Post by fishman »

T-Rex wrote:Placing in order and noting the difference in carbon deposits will tell a tale. So will looking at the deposits on the outer skirt, for flow pattern/path.

Might offer something you could use on another build or for comparison on the effects of different K features.
I'd have to clean them real well then shoot only a couple shots through it. It was just too dirty to tell much of anything. The lithium grease didn't help I'm sure.
300 blackout form 1: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137293

5.56 form 1:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=141800&p=955647#p955647
a_canadian
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1204
Joined: Fri Oct 11, 2013 3:09 pm

Re: 300 blackout build complete

Post by a_canadian »

fishman wrote:I'd have to clean them real well then shoot only a couple shots through it. It was just too dirty to tell much of anything. The lithium grease didn't help I'm sure.
Actually shooting a few dozen rounds through it would be more likely to tell the true tale. Patterns emerge after a while. Especially useful in analysis of flow into the expansion volume outside the K baffles. If after 30 or 40 shots there's still very little evidence of firing outside the skirts, you could surmise that the porting wasn't quite doing its job. From the tiny bit of that area I can make out in your pictures it seems there are some dark spots appearing, so that's good. At a guess it seems that the angled drill approach has taken the waist port out of the equation a little however, as the exit hole is quite far from the bore line. That's why dipping in from the front of the baffle with a round-nosed or flat-nosed mill bit is generally preferred, keeping this port very close to the area of highest pressure and thus forcing more gas expansion into the outer volume. But hey, if the suppressor is effective, if you're happy with it, then it worked.
Post Reply