Selling a Lathe

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partsguy22
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Selling a Lathe

Post by partsguy22 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 4:54 pm

Ive come upon a 3rd lathe and only have room for 2
the question is which ones to keep and which to sell

The 1964 Clausing 14X40 VFD retrofitted is going to stay

the two I've got to choose between

1964-65 South Bend 10K (12 speed,flat belt, rear drive, quick change gear box, 36" bed and a partial set of metric gearing) in need of some attention

2015 Grizzly G0602 10x22 almost new with all the stuff it sells with

what do y'all think ? ...I wish I could find the space to just keep all of them

ECCO Machine
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Re: Selling a Lathe

Post by ECCO Machine » Fri Mar 23, 2018 9:15 pm

Well, Southbends aren't the finest lathes, but I'd take a 10K every day and twice on Sunday over a Grizzly anything, especially a little machine like that. Honestly, you couldn't give me a Grizzly machine if I had to keep it. Chicom junk, won't hold tolerances, sound like buckets of bolts when running, ugly............well, you get the point. I'm not a fan.

Don't you have storage until you build more space? Lol. I have 3 lathes in current use, and 3 more in the shed. I use my Rahn-Larmon 16x60, Hardinge HCT and Atlas 618 daily The Southy Heavy 10L, an 1896 Seneca falls 9" treadle machine and an 1880s Barnes #4-1/2 are the ones being stored until my new shop is done. The Seneca and Barnes won't be used much, though. I just like antique machinery.

The Rahn-Larmon I use daily is nearly a century old, but I went through it and updated/upgraded many things. It now has a 3,500 RPM 3HP motor to give me a range of 32-1,020 RPM, one shot lube system for the plain spindle bearings, CXA QCTP with a couple dozen holders, Y & Z DRO, tailstock DRO, variable speed electronic power carriage and cross feed, a super heavy carriage stop I cut from 4" steel bar stock, thrust bearings on the compound lead screw with an extended oversize crank, a brushless DC tool post ER20 milling head I built for it, 5" and 10" rotating tail stock chucks and a half dozen live centers, a bunch of other little things. I'm not sure exactly what I have into all of it, but I know I'd rather have it than a new machine I could get for similar money.
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partsguy22
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Re: Selling a Lathe

Post by partsguy22 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 11:31 pm

Your Rahn sounds like my Clausing

We've been in the same shop since 1979 ...7 years before i was even thought of, we just really dont have the room

The deal that introduced the new lathe also added a small mill (Grizzly G0463) another blast cabinet (24x48) and another air compressor (60g 5hp vertical)

In my smallish machine shop I now have
A Bridgeport 10x54
Clausing 6914
South Bend 10k
Clausing drill press (large 3 phase)
Craftsman drill press
Craftsman vertical band saw
Another larger vertical band saw
Doall horizontal band saw
2 Blast n Peen 24 x 48 blast cabinets
Flywheel grinder
Elox tap burner edm
2 big oxy acetylene rigs
A hobart 210 mig
Miller syncrowave 351
Magnaflux machine
80 gal vertical compressor (7.5hp)
120 gal horizontal compressor (3 phase 15hp)this is outside
A couple cabinets for tooling
2 work benches
2 6x48 belt sanders
3 8" grinders
12 " grinder
2x60 burr king belt sander
20" disc sander
Baldor tool grinder
Buffer
Plus other odds and ends

In a roughly 30 x 30 area
I just plain dont have enough room to add this stuff and have room to work

Id like to keep the blast cabinet, the two i already have run 80g Aluminum oxide and fine glass bead I'd love to set this one up with walnut shell

The small mill could be useful to keep from having to teardown set ups on the Bridgeport for quickie jobs or a possable CNC conversion

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Re: Selling a Lathe

Post by ECCO Machine » Sat Mar 24, 2018 1:30 am

Sounds as tight as my space. Lol. I'm running both an auto shop and machine shop in 670 sq. ft., so the lathes and mill are in addition to the full complement of automotive equipment; two rolling tool chests, AC machines, brake lathes, oxy-acetylene, strut compressor, shop press, fluid drain barrels, etc. It's cramped!
partsguy22 wrote:
The small mill could be useful to keep from having to teardown set ups on the Bridgeport for quickie jobs or a possable CNC conversion
Secondary op machines sure are nice! My Lagun FTV-2 will be my small one when the new shop is up. I have a 9 HP 11x56 Pedersen VPF-21 universal waiting for square footage. Not looking forward to moving it again, sucker weighs a touch over 5K. It'll be good for the heavier hogging, with that beast of a motor and 40 taper spindle. I don't like beating up the Lagun with big cutters in the R8 spindle. I almost went for a Kerney & Trecker 10 horse vertical, but it was just too heavy, didn't wanna pay to move it.

Ultimately I'm needing a 5 axis VMC or millturn, but that's a ways down the road.
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T-Rex
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Re: Selling a Lathe

Post by T-Rex » Sat Mar 24, 2018 9:38 am

I agree with keeping the 10K and selling the Grizzly. When you get a chance, just give her an overhaul (great kits on ebay). I know there is a V-belt conversion for the 10K or you can run a VFD.

Small shop? Mine is under 200sqft, has a South Bend 9x48, PM-25MV, 2 grinding stations, 2 vise stations, a 6' reloading section, standing cabinets for gun parts, 2 safes, 7 upper cabinets, 7 lower cabinets, 18' of workbench, and almost 14' of shelving for books. Oh, and plenty of space for dirt and swarf :lol:
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Capt. Link.
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Re: Selling a Lathe

Post by Capt. Link. » Sat Mar 24, 2018 3:13 pm

partsguy22 wrote:Ive come upon a 3rd lathe and only have room for 2
the question is which ones to keep and which to sell

The 1964 Clausing 14X40 VFD retrofitted is going to stay

the two I've got to choose between

1964-65 South Bend 10K (12 speed,flat belt, rear drive, quick change gear box, 36" bed and a partial set of metric gearing) in need of some attention

2015 Grizzly G0602 10x22 almost new with all the stuff it sells with

what do y'all think ? ...I wish I could find the space to just keep all of them
That 10x22 would be ideal for a novice silencer smith or beginning machinist.It would not be bad as a second operation machine either. I'm sure you could find it a good home.I would consider it myself by my need to acquire tools is more of a obsession than need.

Contrary to popular belief the Grizzly lathes are better than a solid gold classic that's out of wack or broken.My G3003G has earned it keep many times over.I also have a Rockwell 10" that is wonderful machine but still not a good as the China Doll. The main problems with the Chinese stuff is the nuts and bolts.The book covers the bolt size needed and a tap and die set can help you replace these weak components as needed.
Best CL
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!
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Re: Selling a Lathe

Post by ECCO Machine » Sat Mar 24, 2018 10:41 pm

Capt. Link. wrote:
Contrary to popular belief the Grizzly lathes are better than a solid gold classic that's out of wack or broken.My G3003G has earned it keep many times over.I also have a Rockwell 10" that is wonderful machine but still not a good as the China Doll. The main problems with the Chinese stuff is the nuts and bolts.
Negative, batman.

The main problem with the Chinese junk is that it's Chinese junk.

It's gonna sound condescending, and I apologize in advance, but there's no way around stating that anyone who thinks highly of the Grizzly machines is either not experienced with machinery or just not discerning. They are hobby grade. Assuming you mean the G4003G, as they don't make a 3003 model, I have operated those machines, and they're rattle traps right off the factory floor. May as well buy stock in 3M, because you're going to go through sheets of sandpaper faster than killowatt hours trying to produce parts with a respectable surface finish after that thing sends all the vibration of a cheap single phase motor through a sloppy, rough-cut and over-hardened geartrain. My buddy made a deal on one that was barely used, and he loved it....until he ran my Hardinge and Rahn-Larmon lathes. It was maybe 3 days later that he bought a 1960s Cincinnati Tray Top and unloaded the Griz, which turned up for sale again on CL about 7 months later. That 50+ year old Cincinatti that had clearly see many thousands of hours of hard use in production environments still ran smoother and produced better cuts than the G4003G with maybe 100 hours on it.

I'd much rather buy a worn out American machine and go through it, have the bed ground, spend the time and money to do it right and have a machine you can be proud of that will turn out quality work.
FFL07/02SOT Gunsmith & Machinist

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Capt. Link.
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Re: Selling a Lathe

Post by Capt. Link. » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:47 am

Not many people can go through a machine or find someone local that can grind the ways.Even fewer have the money to do the job. I doubt you have my experience in the shop or on building NFA but these machines are just fine when you have more skill than attitude.
CL retired 02/07 machinist/ Master gunsmith.
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!
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Re: Selling a Lathe

Post by ECCO Machine » Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:56 am

Capt. Link. wrote:these machines are just fine when you have more skill than attitude.
The best equipment won't make up for lack of skill, but mediocre equipment will always be a limiting factor. I earn money with my equipment, don't have the time to chase dimensions with sloppy machines on which the dials either move on their own or the gibs have to be kept so tight that you get carpel tunnel trying to move cross slide and compound while watching ever more metallic lube seep out as the parts wear quickly due to poor metallurgy. You won't see Grizzly machines made today still being used in 40 or 50 years like the Monarch, Hardinge, Leblonde, Cincinnati, Southbend, Clausing and other quality machines that are that old and older now.

You don't always get what you pay for, but you never get what you don't pay for, and a 12x36 lathe geared head that sells for $3,500 brand new in a market where professional machines are all 5 figures has to have a lot of manufacturing corners cut.
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partsguy22
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Re: Selling a Lathe

Post by partsguy22 » Thu Sep 06, 2018 11:33 pm

After much thought I did something completely different

I brought the Southbend from the shop it will now live in my garage at home

It is with a heavy heart I also said good by to my Clausing
In the last 6 months I have spent more tim working on it than using it or so it seems plus for what I use it for it is really to small
It is a great machine but need a complete teardown and overhaul
The compound is so worn it both wanders and is so tight you can't turn it
Same with the cross feed
The gear box has gears that are just plain worn out or won't engage
The clutch slips if you use it (currently locked out)
As well as a few other things

So I bought a brand new Grizzly G0509G 16x40
Just delivered this afternoon
All I can say is wow
Its way more ridged and so much smoother
However time will tell how it will hold up
But for the time being I think it was a worthwhile purchase
Is it as nice as a new standard-modern or classing or hardinge no however it was a half to a third the price of those and it looks like it should serve its purpose just fine

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yondering
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Re: Selling a Lathe

Post by yondering » Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:33 am

Capt. Link. wrote:Not many people can go through a machine or find someone local that can grind the ways.Even fewer have the money to do the job. I doubt you have my experience in the shop or on building NFA but these machines are just fine when you have more skill than attitude.
CL retired 02/07 machinist/ Master gunsmith.
I'm in complete agreement. Besides, if the machine is adjusted right, the more modern spindle bearings on that Grizzly can be smoother than an old worn out plain bearing South Bend easily. Someone who doesn't bother to set spindle bearing preload because it's "just chinese junk" would probably miss that point.

Personally I went from a slightly smaller (wide 9") South Bend to a slightly larger Grizzly and never regretted it once, despite what some guys say about them. I'm on to bigger and better machines now, but the Grizzly I had was a significant step up from the 80+ year old SB that needed lots of attention to use it well. Of course, the OP will know better than us if that's the case with his. If it's going to be a second op machine anyway, I'd keep the Grizzly.

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