Form 1 Reflex can input

Yes, it can be legal to make a silencer. For everything Form-1, from silencer designs that are easily made, to filing forms with the BATF, to 3D modeling. Remember, you must have an approved BATF Form-1 to make a silencer. All NFA laws apply.

Moderators: mpallett, bakerjw

Post Reply
c5_nc
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:00 pm

Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by c5_nc »

I am considering this layout for a reflex can. It would use a 8.375" Tube, for OAL of 8.7-8.9" with a Diversified Machine Ti low profile endcap. It would add 4 3/8" overall length to the host firearm. It would work on the Griffin reflex mount or the standard Griffin QD mount so I could still move it around. I found a 11.5" barrel with a small .068" gas port, so this with a standard gas block should in theory run great with with minimal blowback without having to regulate the gas system. It looked like it would work out to the same OAL as a 6.6" OAL (6" Tube) build, and the OAL is similar to the one Griffin makes for 5.56, so I'm thinking I am hearing safe here but too risky to go shorter. Input? I am flexable on length if more needs to be added but not sure if this can be shorter and still be effective. Planed tube would be 1.5 x 1.375" Ti G9.

As far as how it relates to my other builds, I have:

5.56
7.6" Ti Form 1 QD

7.62
10" Ti Liberty Freedom 5/8-24
8.9" Steel Form 1 5/8-24
8.9" Ti Form 1 QD
5.75" AL Form 1 5/8-24 (subsonics)

The second part of the question is the Grey tube in the picture is unbuilt and I have a form 1 back for 30cal for. It was intended to be a standard QD mount can. Looking at what I have already I guess I have that covered. Would the same layout work for 30cal reflex can. Opinions on would be hearing safe on 308 and 5.56? It would be 8.8" OAL but only a 4.25" past the brake, the tube is Ti 1.625x1.485.

Mock Up.
Image

I would drill holes in a washer for the reflex area
Image

Mock up with a shorter can I already had (7.6") on a 11.5" barrel.
Image

Image
c5_nc
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:00 pm

Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by c5_nc »

Anybody think good or bad on length? One shot deal and don't want to waist a lot of money!
User avatar
mr fixit
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 481
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:09 am
Location: N.E. Texas

Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by mr fixit »

User avatar
gunny50
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 782
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:11 am
Location: EU

Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by gunny50 »

c5_nc wrote:Anybody think good or bad on length? One shot deal and don't want to waist a lot of money!

C5-NC

Quick question, Where are you located?

I would machine another connector / support of rt. long brake, not use a washer.

Gunny
User avatar
Bendersquint
Industry Professional
Posts: 11357
Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2006 7:19 pm
Location: North Carolina
Contact:

Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by Bendersquint »

gunny50 wrote:
c5_nc wrote:Anybody think good or bad on length? One shot deal and don't want to waist a lot of money!

C5-NC

Quick question, Where are you located?

I would machine another connector / support of rt. long brake, not use a washer.

Gunny
North Carolina
c5_nc
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:00 pm

Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by c5_nc »

gunny50 wrote:
c5_nc wrote:Anybody think good or bad on length? One shot deal and don't want to waist a lot of money!

C5-NC

Quick question, Where are you located?

I would machine another connector / support of rt. long brake, not use a washer.

Gunny
On the SS washers one is exact OD and ID I would need and is .065", one needs the ID opened bit but is .14". The Griffin cans that use them appear to use something looking like this, with a series of holes drilled around them of course. What would you recommend?
sizulku
Silent Operator
Posts: 87
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 10:35 am
Location: Asia

Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by sizulku »

any updates ??
c5_nc
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:00 pm

Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by c5_nc »

No progress. This is my last stamp (that is what I am telling myself at least). Here is the mock up of a 8.9" that would be similar to the Griffin and OPS/Allen that are similar. However I have some questions about how effective it will be, not really much of a reflex space. Not all that much data to compare the OPS to other suppressors doesn't help. I built one similar with 7.6" 1.625 for 223 can, I have some concern I would build a 1.5" 8.9" long reflex and it would be not as good. I may build a smaller can instead, my current 8.9" on the Diversified Machine tube is 15.0oz, however a mockup of another 8" tube with ti spacers and Ti valve retainers is comming in at 12.0 oz. I think I could build a 5.5" 5.56 and stay in the 9.5-11oz range.

Image
User avatar
mr fixit
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 481
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 10:09 am
Location: N.E. Texas

Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by mr fixit »

c5_nc wrote:No progress. This is my last stamp (that is what I am telling myself at least). Here is the mock up of a 8.9" that would be similar to the Griffin and OPS/Allen that are similar. However I have some questions about how effective it will be, not really much of a reflex space. Not all that much data to compare the OPS to other suppressors doesn't help. I built one similar with 7.6" 1.625 for 223 can, I have some concern I would build a 1.5" 8.9" long reflex and it would be not as good. I may build a smaller can instead, my current 8.9" on the Diversified Machine tube is 15.0oz, however a mockup of another 8" tube with ti spacers and Ti valve retainers is comming in at 12.0 oz. I think I could build a 5.5" 5.56 and stay in the 9.5-11oz range.
Do you have any diagrams or pics of the Griffin or OPS/Allen? Just wondering how this design compares visually and the like. Assuming you based it on them?
User avatar
T-Rex
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1865
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:38 pm
Location: CT - The AntiConstitution State

Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by T-Rex »

c5_nc

What are those baffles you have in your "mock-up" pic?

My personal opinion is the muzzle brake will hurt a true reflex design. You want the blast to be reflected rearward after contacting the blast baffle. If the muzzle gas is dispersing perpendicular to the trajectory flow, it would seem that, it would interfere with the gas' rearward path. I'm not saying you won't get any gas to go into the over-barrel portion, but it won't act in the way a reflex is designed to.

If one were so inclined, read as legally able to do so, he could slip a tight fitting SS sleeve over the muzzle brake and test both conditions. :wink:
Completed Builds www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79895
Burst Calculator www.engineersedge.com/calculators/pipe_bust_calc.htm
Silencer Porn www.instagram.com/explore/tags/silencerporn/
c5_nc
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:00 pm

Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by c5_nc »

mr fixit wrote:
c5_nc wrote:No progress. This is my last stamp (that is what I am telling myself at least). Here is the mock up of a 8.9" that would be similar to the Griffin and OPS/Allen that are similar. However I have some questions about how effective it will be, not really much of a reflex space. Not all that much data to compare the OPS to other suppressors doesn't help. I built one similar with 7.6" 1.625 for 223 can, I have some concern I would build a 1.5" 8.9" long reflex and it would be not as good. I may build a smaller can instead, my current 8.9" on the Diversified Machine tube is 15.0oz, however a mockup of another 8" tube with ti spacers and Ti valve retainers is comming in at 12.0 oz. I think I could build a 5.5" 5.56 and stay in the 9.5-11oz range.
Do you have any diagrams or pics of the Griffin or OPS/Allen? Just wondering how this design compares visually and the like. Assuming you based it on them?
I haven't seen cutaways or scans of either but the size is the same and the reflex and area past the barrel is very close to both, and I think cones stacked .5" in the space available is as good as you can get. The Griffin uses single clipped cones in the stack and the washer type mount is the same, the rear is just threaded 1"-20unf threaded without the taper. That is why it only works on the OTB mount, I would keep the taper on the mount on mine, so I could use on the OTB and standard mounts.
c5_nc
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:00 pm

Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by c5_nc »

T-Rex wrote:c5_nc

What are those baffles you have in your "mock-up" pic?

My personal opinion is the muzzle brake will hurt a true reflex design. You want the blast to be reflected rearward after contacting the blast baffle. If the muzzle gas is dispersing perpendicular to the trajectory flow, it would seem that, it would interfere with the gas' rearward path. I'm not saying you won't get any gas to go into the over-barrel portion, but it won't act in the way a reflex is designed to.

If one were so inclined, read as legally able to do so, he could slip a tight fitting SS sleeve over the muzzle brake and test both conditions. :wink:
I was suspecting the brake would help. This was a previous design, the person that did this has not completed the build yet:

http://i60.tinypic.com/k4xh1d.jpg

http://i58.tinypic.com/5d6xpk.jpg

The threaded area could be reduced and a brake installed "inside" the can also. The Griffin and Ops/Allen don't appear to offer a lot of interior space on the reflex area. Also a reflex brake QD only part that doesn't have the adapter is being made, that is 3" of reflex space and 1" of brake. Sounds like I may be better off with that. I may just build a shorter all Ti can for 5.56, sounds like I can get it down to 10-11oz.
c5_nc
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:00 pm

Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by c5_nc »

T-Rex wrote:c5_nc


My personal opinion is the muzzle brake will hurt a true reflex design. You want the blast to be reflected rearward after contacting the blast baffle. If the muzzle gas is dispersing perpendicular to the trajectory flow, it would seem that, it would interfere with the gas' rearward path. I'm not saying you won't get any gas to go into the over-barrel portion, but it won't act in the way a reflex is designed to.

:
T-Rex,

I am guessing this route would be prefered from your perspective? These are Ti for a 1.75" Ti tube, but I would probably use 1.625 or 1.5" tube. A friend ordered the same thing with a brake mount.

http://i57.tinypic.com/2u6fnex.jpg

http://i57.tinypic.com/1411cnk.jpg

http://i62.tinypic.com/s2duz9.jpg
User avatar
T-Rex
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1865
Joined: Wed Oct 29, 2014 3:38 pm
Location: CT - The AntiConstitution State

Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by T-Rex »

I can't get this one to open. Might just be my phone, bit the other 2 are gtg.
Completed Builds www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79895
Burst Calculator www.engineersedge.com/calculators/pipe_bust_calc.htm
Silencer Porn www.instagram.com/explore/tags/silencerporn/
c5_nc
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 257
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:00 pm

Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by c5_nc »

T-Rex wrote:
I can't get this one to open. Might just be my phone, bit the other 2 are gtg.
Image
ck4huns
New Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:23 am

Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by ck4huns »

c5_nc wrote:No progress. This is my last stamp (that is what I am telling myself at least). Here is the mock up of a 8.9" that would be similar to the Griffin and OPS/Allen that are similar. However I have some questions about how effective it will be, not really much of a reflex space. Not all that much data to compare the OPS to other suppressors doesn't help. I built one similar with 7.6" 1.625 for 223 can, I have some concern I would build a 1.5" 8.9" long reflex and it would be not as good. I may build a smaller can instead, my current 8.9" on the Diversified Machine tube is 15.0oz, however a mockup of another 8" tube with ti spacers and Ti valve retainers is comming in at 12.0 oz. I think I could build a 5.5" 5.56 and stay in the 9.5-11oz range.

Image
Where can these blast baffle be purchased?
User avatar
gunny50
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 782
Joined: Wed Jan 23, 2008 5:11 am
Location: EU

Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by gunny50 »

[quote="ck4huns"

Where can these blast baffle be purchased?[/quote]

Good day and welcome to ST.

Could you give more information about yourself?

Location where you live / country, skill set, tools you might have and experience with machines?
Do you already have silencers, and iff you do are these F1 or factory units?

Regards,

Gunny
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=135514
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=77913
ck4huns
New Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:23 am

Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by ck4huns »

gunny50 wrote:[quote="ck4huns"

Where can these blast baffle be purchased?
Good day and welcome to ST.

Could you give more information about yourself?

Location where you live / country, skill set, tools you might have and experience with machines?
Do you already have silencers, and iff you do are these F1 or factory units?

Regards,

Gunny[/quote]

I just delivered a few thousand of these cones to a middleman, made of titanium, stainless and aluminum. I have been always looking for the final distributor of these, but never found. My partner owns a CNC machining workshop. I helped to turn the designs into CAD drawings and had them machined.
ck4huns
New Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:23 am

Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by ck4huns »

I also hope to learn how do all the dimensions of the parts come, and how to design them.
Look at the cones here:
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bhqs_czBNwA/
garredondojr
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 230
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:50 pm

Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by garredondojr »

ck4huns wrote: I have been always looking for the final distributor of these, but never found. My partner owns a CNC machining workshop. I helped to turn the designs into CAD drawings and had them machined.
Why would you care if you made your money?

something smells a little fishy.

Probing for problems :roll:
ck4huns
New Member
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:23 am

Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by ck4huns »

garredondojr wrote:
ck4huns wrote: I have been always looking for the final distributor of these, but never found. My partner owns a CNC machining workshop. I helped to turn the designs into CAD drawings and had them machined.
Why would you care if you made your money?

something smells a little fishy.

Probing for problems :roll:
The problem is we are not making much money because of the presence of the middlemen. Actually the final buyer gets those from middleman A who gets these from middleman B. B is my client. :?
garredondojr
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 230
Joined: Tue Jun 21, 2016 4:50 pm

Re: Form 1 Reflex can input

Post by garredondojr »

ck4huns wrote: The problem is we are not making much money because of the presence of the middlemen. Actually the final buyer gets those from middleman A who gets these from middleman B. B is my client. :?
Then setup a website and manage/sell your product direct if you know what you have. sounds like a simple solution to me.
Post Reply