First Form 1 Design

Yes, it can be legal to make a silencer. For everything Form-1, from silencer designs that are easily made, to filing forms with the BATF, to 3D modeling. Remember, you must have an approved BATF Form-1 to make a silencer. All NFA laws apply.

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Dunkman
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First Form 1 Design

Post by Dunkman » Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:32 am

I am designing my first Form 1 silencer and I would like some feedback or input. I have already purchased the radial cups so that is the direction I am heading. I do not have any other parts so the size could vary slightly, but this is as close to accurate as I can get for the time being. I was planning on machining a groove so all the clips line up, hence why the spacing is slightly less than the spacer size listed below. My first question is if I have enough clearance between baffles when I drop the spacing for the last three? I dropped the spacing to allow for another baffle. My next question is if my blast chamber is too large? I believe the distance the muzzle brake surpasses the ASR mount is correct. This is going to see 5.56/.223, 6.8 SPC, and 300 Blackout. What size do you recommend I ream the baffles and clip? Would anyone change anything?
  • SilencerCo ASR muzzle device
  • SilencerCo ASR Mount
  • DM ASR Ti Tube-1.5''x1.375''x7.812''
  • 2'' Ti Spacer-1.370''x0.045''wall
  • 1.370'' Radial Baffle 17-4 SS
  • 0.5'' Ti Spacer-1.370''x0.045''wall
x2
  • 1.370'' Radial Baffle Ti Gr5
  • 0.5'' Ti Spacer-1.370''x0.045''wall
x3
  • 1.370'' Radial Baffle Ti Gr5
  • 0.4375'' Ti Spacer-1.370''x0.045''wall
x3
  • 1.370'' Radial Baffle Ti Gr5
  • 0.375'' Ti Spacer-1.370''x0.045''wall
  • 1.5'' DM Low Profile End Cap
https://imgur.com/a/B4nGZhq

I appreciate any input, thanks!

#40Fan
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Re: First Form 1 Design

Post by #40Fan » Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:03 pm

Image

#40Fan
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Re: First Form 1 Design

Post by #40Fan » Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:08 pm

I think it looks good.

I don't think you need the 2" spacer because the DM tube has that built in. Correct me if I am wrong there. Never bought an ASR tube.

.375" bore (or even slightly smaller) should cover all of your bases.

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T-Rex
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Re: First Form 1 Design

Post by T-Rex » Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:33 pm

Single clips, aligned, and you've got a SiCo Saker ASR 762

Image
Top one is the older Saker
Completed Builds www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=79895
Burst Calculator www.engineersedge.com/calculators/pipe_bust_calc.htm
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Dunkman
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Re: First Form 1 Design

Post by Dunkman » Wed Jan 01, 2020 1:20 am

I will probably buy the tube once I get my Form 1 approved, and see what spacer I need then.

I would be happy with Saker results for this can!

Dunkman
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Re: First Form 1 Design

Post by Dunkman » Fri Jan 03, 2020 4:42 pm

Any input on going to a radial coned end cap vs. the low profile one I initially planned on?

https://diversifiedmachine.us/product/r ... ed-endcap/

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d_lish
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Re: First Form 1 Design

Post by d_lish » Mon Feb 10, 2020 9:49 pm

Coned endcap is supposed to cause more gas turbulence at the end of your can, which I guess should equate to better suppression.

How are things coming along?

Dunkman
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Re: First Form 1 Design

Post by Dunkman » Tue Feb 11, 2020 3:09 pm

All documents received by ATF, waiting on approval now. I went ahead and ordered materials from Diversified Machine 18 days ago and haven't had any contact from them since the initial email confirming my order. I've sent 3 emails for an order status to both of their email addresses and haven't heard a peep. Has anyone else had problems with them?

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Re: First Form 1 Design

Post by #40Fan » Tue Feb 11, 2020 11:25 pm

If the items you ordered were in stock at the time, just sit back and wait.

Dunkman
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Re: First Form 1 Design

Post by Dunkman » Wed Feb 12, 2020 5:27 pm

Yes, they were in stock. I may be a little impatient, but spending $200+ with someone and not getting a response can be eerie.

Gibs
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Re: First Form 1 Design

Post by Gibs » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:38 am

On other forums there are constant threads asking about DM lead times, not responding to emails etc. No question that they have good quality parts but their lack of customer service response is the norm it seems.

On another note, I've ordered some items from Maverick Precision recently and their communication has been stellar. Almost immediate order confirmation emails, shipping notices and tracking info provided without asking. In stock items shipping within 3-7 days and arriving 3 days priority mail packed well. I've had one item from them that the confirmation email got buried in spam and I emailed them after 5 days asking about order status. I had a reply back in 30 minutes assuring me my order was going out the same day.

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Diversified machine problems

Post by Myname » Wed Mar 04, 2020 4:53 pm

Anyone else have problems with the lack of contact info for diversified machine? I placed an order for a simple 6 inch piece of ti tube. An in stock item. They dont have a phone number and they dont reapond to an email or 20. They dont refund an order or cancel it, and they sure dont send out what ya pay for either. Jokers took my money surely, and never sent the item. I had to cancel my credit card for fear of some fraudulent crap that i think they might try to pull off. Do your homework people, they have all kinds of companies that offer the same products. Badger machine answers their phone everytime. Thats just one of many. The customer service at diversified is so low i wouldn't even put any sugar on top and call them sub par.

Dunkman
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Re: First Form 1 Design

Post by Dunkman » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:19 am

I haven't had a reply from them since the automated message when you order. I ordered "in stock" items on Jan 24th. I was talking to a guy the other day who also ordered from DM at the end of January, and he received his item(s) a week ago. The guy said it's a one man shop, I'm assuming he took on more than he can handle. He has never replied to any of my emails, but I cannot comment on the quality of work since I haven't received anything. I will go a different rout next time based on the lack of customer service.

Dunkman
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Re: First Form 1 Design

Post by Dunkman » Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:48 pm

The rest of my parts came in today. Slight change in build plans, the ASR tube has a land in it for the first baffle to tighten up to. Essentially taking the place of my first 2'' spacer, it is close to the same spot I was intending but not exactly. I threw all my cups and spacers in there and tightened the end cap hand-tight and there is a slight wiggle in the internals. I have the extra 2'' spacer still I can cut to tighten everything up. That being said, how tight do I want everything to be? Internals a few thousandths over sized so everything is locked in when snugged up, or do I want the slightest bit of "slop" when it's all snugged?

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Re: First Form 1 Design

Post by #40Fan » Mon Mar 16, 2020 7:11 pm

Leaving one spacer a little (.020" or so) long won't hurt. After firing a few shots, check endcap tightness and repeat for how many rounds you feel comfortable with, that you can't tighten the endcap any more. Then you can remove what little bit of the long spacer you need to get the cap to sit flush and tight.

Being a smidge loose probably won't hurt anything either. Carbon will pack in there and take away the rattle.

Dunkman
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Re: First Form 1 Design

Post by Dunkman » Tue Mar 17, 2020 10:59 am

Okay thanks! Hoping to start drilling the baffles this weekend.

JensonStorm
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Re: First Form 1 Design

Post by JensonStorm » Tue Mar 17, 2020 1:01 pm

Dunkman wrote:
Mon Mar 16, 2020 3:48 pm
The rest of my parts came in today. Slight change in build plans, the ASR tube has a land in it for the first baffle to tighten up to. Essentially taking the place of my first 2'' spacer, it is close to the same spot I was intending but not exactly. I threw all my cups and spacers in there and tightened the end cap hand-tight and there is a slight wiggle in the internals. I have the extra 2'' spacer still I can cut to tighten everything up. That being said, how tight do I want everything to be? Internals a few thousandths over sized so everything is locked in when snugged up, or do I want the slightest bit of "slop" when it's all snugged?
I don't know how to post pictures on here but if you can figure it out i would love to see what you got!

Dunkman
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Re: First Form 1 Design

Post by Dunkman » Tue Mar 17, 2020 3:16 pm

Tried to use the pic insert but it said “not possible to determine the dimensions of the image” so here’s the album link

https://imgur.com/a/IhboduV

1 ASR tube 1.50'' x 1.375'' x 7.812''
9 Aegis Radial cups 1.370''
8 Titanium spacers 0.50''
1 Titanium spacer 0.375''
1 Rimless Radial Coned Endcap 1.50'' OD-24tpi

Should have made it 9 spacers @ 0.50'' and I think it would have ended up perfect. Let me know if you want any more pics/details.

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Re: First Form 1 Design

Post by JensonStorm » Tue Mar 17, 2020 5:32 pm

That's exciting. looks awesome! thanks for sharing.

Dunkman
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Re: First Form 1 Design

Post by Dunkman » Wed Mar 18, 2020 9:11 am

Thanks! I can confirm that making the last spacer 0.50'', instead of 0.375'', is perfect. Everything tightens up snug and the lands on the end cap are flush with the end of the tube.

Dunkman
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Re: First Form 1 Design

Post by Dunkman » Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:34 pm

What do people recommend for DHC clipping? Single or double? What are the advantages/disadvantages with regards to suppression and POI shift? Thanks!

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fishman
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Re: First Form 1 Design

Post by fishman » Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:30 pm

Dunkman wrote:
Wed Mar 18, 2020 4:34 pm
What do people recommend for DHC clipping? Single or double? What are the advantages/disadvantages with regards to suppression and POI shift? Thanks!
The "D" in "DHC" stands for double/dual.
300 blackout form 1: http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=137293

5.56 form 1:
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=141800&p=955647#p955647

Dunkman
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Re: First Form 1 Design

Post by Dunkman » Thu Mar 19, 2020 1:56 pm

Well that would make sense now wouldn't it.. thanks!

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Re: First Form 1 Design

Post by remidoggoingdark » Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:17 pm

Alright guys, I have the same exact tube as OP's. I just received all of my spacers but have a question on the DM tube. mine has ASR threads on the mount end to accept a dead air Keymo. The issue I am having is the stainless Steel spacers I bought for the blast chamber are 1.370 od but they will not fit to make my blast chamber since the threads are around 1.325 for the Keymo mount. It looks like OP's finished can did not have an additional spacer material in the blast chamber. Instead he started with a baffle resting on top of the built in lip on the can then started stacking to his end cap. Am I correct that DM builds the lower portion where your mount screws in below the lip thick enough to be the blast chamber and an additional stainless sleeve is not needed here? If you turned the sleeve down to fit past the threads then it would be loose and not a correct fit to the 1.372 id of the tube. Planning this can to go on 13.7 inch 5.56, 10.5 300 blackout shooting subs and supers, 6.5 Grendel, and 6.5 Creedmoor. Can form 1'd as a .308. got titanium spacers from DM and the stainless spacers from muted machine works. This is my first form 1 so please drop some knowledge on me!

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Re: First Form 1 Design

Post by #40Fan » Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:32 pm

With the ASR tubes, you don't need extra blast chamber material. If you need to move the cone further away from your brake, you can drop the appropriate spacer in before your first cone.

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