Silencer on a gas delayed blowback pistol?

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strantor
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Silencer on a gas delayed blowback pistol?

Post by strantor » Sat Feb 22, 2020 7:27 pm

Hi, first post here. I have a Walther CCP and I'm curious about how it would act with a silencer on it, since it's gas delayed blowback. This gas delay system is rather unique and uncommon, and google has indicated to me that when this specific question is asked on an internet forum there is a high likelihood of the discussion degenerating into an off-topic battle of terms; recoil, blowback, gas blowback, etc. at the hands of people who don't know (or dont care) how the CCP and the handful of other obscure guns which operate on the same principle even work. The question never gets answered. So please, let's not do that. This video will make it all clear:
https://youtu.be/coLytAnGgpo

I'm concerned that since the gas works against the slide action, with the added back pressure introduced by a silencer, the slide might not cycle at all. Is that a valid concern? Has anyone tried putting a silencer on a CCP or any other pistol which operates in the same manner as that depicted in the video l linked to? What was the result? I'm thinking that, if it works, it might be a superior platform for a silencer, as it's a fixed barrel and can use a simpler silencer, and also noise from the ejection port would be kept to a minimum.

Historian
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Re: Silencer on a gas delayed blowback pistol?

Post by Historian » Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:52 am

Thank you for pointing out this new CCP piece that I had no knowledge of.

Concept is intriguing but the reviews seem to tally with my first
impression of it.

The inimitable Walther original PPK is the standard whence following
few lines stem:

1. Take down for cleaning is reported to be complex in contrast to PPK which
like S&W 41 just requires pulling down trigger guard.
And reported to be bulkier than PPK

2. Barrel length 3.54" as for 3.3" for PPK. Does the short 9mm
barrel deliver appreciable more stopping power than the .380
with Silver Tips?

3. To attach a threaded barrel for PPK one could consider using a PPKS
barrel. In 1970s saw one fired and it had 'ouch' to ear discomfort.
Does anyone even make a longer barrel for it?

4. For its intended purpose, a CCP does not need the
longevity say a full frame 9mm or .45 it is innovative but
certainly fills a niche from a renowned company.
If perceived recoil and ergonomics are as advertised it
certainly has admirable merits.

5. Would a smaller .380 design be even better concealed?


Wonderful to see Walther et al continually innovating.

Again, thank you for bringing the CCP to our attention. It
will be interesting to hear others observations.

strantor
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Re: Silencer on a gas delayed blowback pistol?

Post by strantor » Sun Feb 23, 2020 9:14 pm

I got the CCP for my wife, for those reasons advertised (easy to rack, less recoil) but after shooting it I decided I wanted it more than she did. I just love the way it feels. I like the gun. It is complicated to take down, I don't care. I don't know the extent of what the reviews say, never bothered to read them. I guess I'm an "early adopter." When I bought it there weren't any reviews and I haven't taken the time to retroactively study other people's opinions about something I've already decided that I like. I've never had it misfire or had any issue with it whatsoever.

I'm not aware of anyone making a threaded barrel or a longer barrel for the CCP. I've looked, did not find. I don't know if a PPK/PPKS barrel would fit, never thought to look into it. I will now, but my plan was to thread my existing barrel on my lathe, then machine an adapter to extend it. I've done this recently with a GSG Firefly (.22LR) and it worked perfectly so my confidence is (perhaps foolishly) high that I can do the same for the CCP.

You draw a few lines to a .380, not sure where you're going with that. Can you expound? What does a .380 have to do with this? .380 is not a round I would choose for any purpose.

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Re: Silencer on a gas delayed blowback pistol?

Post by HD Bee » Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:54 am

The gas bleeding into the lower chamber creates a secondary variable pneumatic recoil spring so the primary coil spring can be lighter.
As the the bullet moves down the barrel the pressure reduces in the gas chamber until the piston cuts the vent off.
I would think that the system would work equally with more pressure from the can.
There would be more pressure on the case to push the slide back and more pressure in the gas chamber to retard it.
In a roller locker you change the angle of the locking shoulder to retard the blowback for a suppressor.
This would do it automatically.

If you try to use another longer barrel. You would have to drill the bleed off hole in front of the chamber the same size and place for it to work properly.
I would be a little wary of putting internal threads on a 9mm barrel and having it hold an extension with a suppressor.
It’s has a lot more pressure than a 22. There probably isn’t a lot of meat at the end of the barrel to bite into. The extension would be very thin where the threads are.
Hopefully Walther or a aftermarket barrel maker will come out with a longer threaded one.

I do like the design. A gas piston like a Desert Eagle. Only used to retard the action not cycle it.
It would be great for beginners, older shooters or people with disabilities.

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Re: Silencer on a gas delayed blowback pistol?

Post by jreinke » Wed Feb 26, 2020 7:34 am

There were quite a few posts back in the day about people running suppressors on their P7's. AAC used to sell threaded barrels, but P7 barrels are pressed into the pistol's frame and changing the barrel out was a royal PIA. I'm wondering how hard with would be to replace the barrel on a CCP?
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strantor
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Re: Silencer on a gas delayed blowback pistol?

Post by strantor » Thu Feb 27, 2020 7:46 am

HD Bee wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:54 am
The gas bleeding into the lower chamber creates a secondary variable pneumatic recoil spring so the primary coil spring can be lighter.
As the the bullet moves down the barrel the pressure reduces in the gas chamber until the piston cuts the vent off.
I would think that the system would work equally with more pressure from the can.
There would be more pressure on the case to push the slide back and more pressure in the gas chamber to retard it.
In a roller locker you change the angle of the locking shoulder to retard the blowback for a suppressor.
This would do it automatically.

If you try to use another longer barrel. You would have to drill the bleed off hole in front of the chamber the same size and place for it to work properly.
I would be a little wary of putting internal threads on a 9mm barrel and having it hold an extension with a suppressor.
It’s has a lot more pressure than a 22. There probably isn’t a lot of meat at the end of the barrel to bite into. The extension would be very thin where the threads are.
Hopefully Walther or a aftermarket barrel maker will come out with a longer threaded one.

I do like the design. A gas piston like a Desert Eagle. Only used to retard the action not cycle it.
It would be great for beginners, older shooters or people with disabilities.
Thanks. I hadn't thought of it as a ratio of pressures between two chambers but I suppose you're right. You're probably also right about there not being enough meat to thread. I was looking at it last night and thinking the same thing. I wondered about making it an interference fit instead. Turning down the barrel end by half its thickness and the machine an adapter that slips over it so tightly that it's a press fit when heated up to a few hundred degrees.

P.s. it's a great gun for anyone, not just women, children, and cripples. Making me feel like one of those able bodied guys who rides a harley trike LOL.

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Re: Silencer on a gas delayed blowback pistol?

Post by strantor » Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:03 am

I've got the CCP disassembled now on a new train of thought. This barrel has very few features. I believe it is well within my capacity to machine an entirely new barrel for it, rather than try to modify the one I have. I have never seriously considered machining a pistol barrel because I'm used to the floating barrel design which has all those weird features that I would have to do by hand, and probably would screw up. But this one is so simple, and when a 17" barrel blank can be had for $38, I have 4 chances to get it right, with very little investment. I think it is worth a try.

http://www.gmriflebarrel.com/9mm-blank- ... lank-1-10/

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Re: Silencer on a gas delayed blowback pistol?

Post by #40Fan » Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:22 am

That certainly looks like it would be an easy barrel replacement job.

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Re: Silencer on a gas delayed blowback pistol?

Post by strantor » Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:58 pm

Well I just ordered 2 (the last 2) of these chambered barrel blanks.

https://chaszel.com/product/9mm-heavy-barrel-blanks/

Two chances to get it right. The one I linked to earlier was less money for more barrel blank, but it wasn't chambered. I didn't realize chamber reamers were so expensive. If I planned on doing a bunch of these I would buy one but since it's just this once for a proof of concept on my own gun, didn't make sense.

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Re: Silencer on a gas delayed blowback pistol?

Post by HD Bee » Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:52 pm

Is the chamber fluted?

Does the barrel have a flat or splines where it interfaces with the frame?
If it does, that would make it easy to keep the barrel bleed hole lined up with the frame hole when pressing in the barrel.

I’m a older shooter. Was thinking of myself when I wrote that.
The idea of riding a hardtail across country or shooting thousands of rounds on a weekend isn’t as appealing as it once was. LOL
Not meant as a put down.

I’m a 1911 guy. I use a Micro 9 for CC.
But was thinking about getting one to mess with and add to the collection.
Also wondering if it gets hot like a P7?

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Re: Silencer on a gas delayed blowback pistol?

Post by HD Bee » Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:11 pm

strantor wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:58 pm
Well I just ordered 2 (the last 2) of these chambered barrel blanks.

https://chaszel.com/product/9mm-heavy-barrel-blanks/

Two chances to get it right. The one I linked to earlier was less money for more barrel blank, but it wasn't chambered. I didn't realize chamber reamers were so expensive. If I planned on doing a bunch of these I would buy one but since it's just this once for a proof of concept on my own gun, didn't make sense.
If the first one works then make the other 3. Sell them on the Walther site or GB for what you have in them, labor, material and tools.
Post a picture of your CCP M2 with the suppressor attached. I bet that they will go fast. You have the market cornered right now.

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Re: Silencer on a gas delayed blowback pistol?

Post by strantor » Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:13 am

HD Bee wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:52 pm
Is the chamber fluted?

Does the barrel have a flat or splines where it interfaces with the frame?
If it does, that would make it easy to keep the barrel bleed hole lined up with the frame hole when pressing in the barrel.

I’m a older shooter. Was thinking of myself when I wrote that.
The idea of riding a hardtail across country or shooting thousands of rounds on a weekend isn’t as appealing as it once was. LOL
Not meant as a put down.

I’m a 1911 guy. I use a Micro 9 for CC.
But was thinking about getting one to mess with and add to the collection.
Also wondering if it gets hot like a P7?
The chamber is not fluted. I read your question on the commode and had never heard of a fluted chamber. Googled it, panicked a bit. Cut my throne visit short and ran to check the chamber for flutes. Phew. No flutes. Thank God because I have no idea how I would replicate that.

It has a flat.

No offense taken, I was only joking.

If overheating is a problem with the CCP, then I haven't shot it enough to make it hot. But I probably wouldn't get a P7 hot either. I have never attended one of these events like I see on YouTube where 20+ people gather, all seemingly united in a goal to waste the most money, make the most noise, and do it as fast as possible. I have my own outdoor range so there's no time consideration. When I shoot, it's just to keep my skills honed. I pace myself, shoot 50, maybe 100 rounds, and it's punctuated by unholstering and reholstering.

I have strange priorities, a fixation on mechanical apparatuses and electronics, a passion for designing and building things, and a hobby of repairing things which deserve a second life. It would be hard to explain. I have several machine tools including a CNC mill (currently in pieces) but honestly the machines are more an end for me, and less the means to an end. I restore the machines, retrofit, upgrade them. I use them to make parts for other machines. I love the machines themselves more than the capabilities they afford. Guns for me are the same thing. I love guns for the sake of the guns more so than I love shooting them. Their designs, their inner workings, their beauty, their precision of manufacture. In short, I'm less of a shoothing enthusiast and more of gun enthusiast and a nerd. So I'm probably not the right guy to ask about things like how the trigger feels or how hot a gun gets with 500 rounds through it. Those things are largely outside the scope of my interest.

I would encourage you to get the CCP if you're interested. I would first encourage you to shoot a rental at a range, but I doubt you'll find one. They aren't expensive though, so if you buy it, don't like it, and sell it at a loss, it won't be any great loss.
Last edited by strantor on Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

strantor
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Re: Silencer on a gas delayed blowback pistol?

Post by strantor » Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:56 am

HD Bee wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 11:11 pm
strantor wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 6:58 pm
Well I just ordered 2 (the last 2) of these chambered barrel blanks.

https://chaszel.com/product/9mm-heavy-barrel-blanks/

Two chances to get it right. The one I linked to earlier was less money for more barrel blank, but it wasn't chambered. I didn't realize chamber reamers were so expensive. If I planned on doing a bunch of these I would buy one but since it's just this once for a proof of concept on my own gun, didn't make sense.
If the first one works then make the other 3. Sell them on the Walther site or GB for what you have in them, labor, material and tools.
Post a picture of your CCP M2 with the suppressor attached. I bet that they will go fast. You have the market cornered right now.
I hadn't seriously considered that. Thanks for the suggestion. If it works out, I'll do just that.

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Re: Silencer on a gas delayed blowback pistol?

Post by HD Bee » Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:54 pm

strantor wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:13 am
HD Bee wrote:
Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:52 pm
Is the chamber fluted?

Does the barrel have a flat or splines where it interfaces with the frame?
If it does, that would make it easy to keep the barrel bleed hole lined up with the frame hole when pressing in the barrel.

I’m a older shooter. Was thinking of myself when I wrote that.
The idea of riding a hardtail across country or shooting thousands of rounds on a weekend isn’t as appealing as it once was. LOL
Not meant as a put down.

I’m a 1911 guy. I use a Micro 9 for CC.
But was thinking about getting one to mess with and add to the collection.
Also wondering if it gets hot like a P7?
The chamber is not fluted. I read your question on the commode and had never heard of a fluted chamber. Googled it, panicked a bit. Cut my throne visit short and ran to check the chamber for flutes. Phew. No flutes. Thank God because I have no idea how I would replicate that.

It has a flat.

No offense taken, I was only joking.

If overheating is a problem with the CCP, then I haven't shot it enough to make it hot. But I probably wouldn't get a P7 hot either. I have never attended one of these events like I see on YouTube where 20+ people gather, all seemingly united in a goal to waste the most money, make the most noise, and do it as fast as possible. I have my own outdoor range so there's no time consideration. When I shoot, it's just to keep my skills honed. I pace myself, shoot 50, maybe 100 rounds, and it's punctuated by unholstering and reholstering.

I have strange priorities, a fixation on mechanical apparatuses and electronics, a passion for designing and building things, and a hobby of repairing things which deserve a second life. It would be hard to explain. I have several machine tools including a CNC mill (currently in pieces) but honestly the machines are more an end for me, and less the means to an end. I restore the machines, retrofit, upgrade them. I use them to make parts for other machines. I love the machines themselves more than the capabilities they afford. Guns for me are the same thing. I love guns for the sake of the guns more so than I love shooting them. Their designs, their inner workings, their beauty, their precision of manufacture. In short, I'm less of a shoothing enthusiast and more of gun enthusiast and a nerd. So I'm probably not the right guy to ask about things like how the trigger feels or how hot a gun gets with 500 rounds through it. Those things are largely outside the scope of my interest.

I would encourage you to get the CCP if you're interested. I would first encourage you to shoot a rental at a range, but I doubt you'll find one. They aren't expensive though, so if you buy it, don't like it, and sell it at a loss, it won't be any great loss.
I have a Machinist and Motorcycle Mechanic background. Do a little local Gunsmithing on the side.
I have a old 13” SB lathe, 7” SB shaper and a Bridgeport J Head. No CNC stuff yet.
Yeah, I’m a Gear & Gizmo head too.
The CA AW ban got me into building guns. When I moved to TX I started on the form 1 stuff.

I was shooting tactical every Sunday with my friends until my shoulder and arm starting hurting too much.
The same reason I quit racing MX when I was young. To sore to work on Monday.

That’s why I’m interested in the CCP. Easer to shoot and I like the mechanics of it.
The piston’s shape reminds me of a M14 piston.

I was looking at some videos on it. It looks like the barrel is also penned to the gas block and the vent is drilled all the way through the block. Looks like they blocked off the vent with an flat pin above the trigger.
If you could remove the gas block from the frame and that pin from the gas block. You could press in the barrel then drill the hole in the barrel using the vent in the gas block as a guide.

I do it on SB FAL’s. You need to enlarge the gas vent on a FAL for it to cycle with a 12” Barrel.
I also stick a wood dowel down the barrel for insurance that I don’t hit the other side.

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Re: Silencer on a gas delayed blowback pistol?

Post by HD Bee » Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:21 pm

...
Last edited by HD Bee on Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

strantor
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Re: Silencer on a gas delayed blowback pistol?

Post by strantor » Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:15 pm

HD Bee wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:54 pm
I have a Machinist and Motorcycle Mechanic background. Do a little local Gunsmithing on the side.
I have a old 13” SB lathe, 7” SB shaper and a Bridgeport J Head. No CNC stuff yet.
Yeah, I’m a Gear & Gizmo head too.
The CA AW ban got me into building guns. When I moved to TX I started on the form 1 stuff.

I was shooting tactical every Sunday with my friends until my shoulder and arm starting hurting too much.
The same reason I quit racing MX when I was young. To sore to work on Monday.

That’s why I’m interested in the CCP. Easer to shoot and I like the mechanics of it.
The piston’s shape reminds me of a M14 piston.

I was looking at some videos on it. It looks like the barrel is also penned to the gas block and the vent is drilled all the way through the block. Looks like they blocked off the vent with an flat pin above the trigger.
If you could remove the gas block from the frame and that pin from the gas block. You could press in the barrel then drill the hole in the barrel using the vent in the gas block as a guide.

I do it on SB FAL’s. You need to enlarge the gas vent on a FAL for it to cycle with a 12” Barrel.
I also stick a wood dowel down the barrel for insurance that I don’t hit the other side.
I was hoping to be able to use the gas block as a drill guide but wasn't sure if it went all the way through. Good to know. And good tip about the wood dowel, thanks, I'll definitely do that.

You have a shaper? I'm jealous. I have been keeping an eye out for one but seems when they come up for sale people think they're made of gold, even when they're rusted solid. It's hard to find decently priced machine tools in TX. I'm just under an hour south of Houston; where are you?

I would also like to get my hands on a die filer. Might have to make a field trip north one of these days with a flatbed trailer and few thousand bucks, come home with a machine shop. Or, just make my own die filer.

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Re: Silencer on a gas delayed blowback pistol?

Post by HD Bee » Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:44 pm

West of Texas State in the hill country. In Houston’s vacation spot.

I picked up the shaper 6 years ago from a older guy north of Houston who had a crane repair business. He had a bigger one and didn’t need it anymore. He had a nice shop I was jealous!

LA and the east coast have all the good machines for sale for good prices.
You just have to watch craigslist, ebay and liquidation sales like a hawk.
It seems like stuff comes in waves. You can wait and wait and wait then one comes up with a sky high price.
Everyone goes, I’m going to buy a new or better machine and sell mine for that. After a while when they don’t sell and they’re stuck with two machines and no room the prices come down.

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Re: Silencer on a gas delayed blowback pistol?

Post by HD Bee » Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:51 am

HaHa! You got me thinking about making a Die Filer,
It wouldn’t be hard to make one or change the shaper into a horizontal one.
On the shaper you would only need to remove the clapper and install a clamping block for the file.

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Re: Silencer on a gas delayed blowback pistol?

Post by strantor » Sun Mar 01, 2020 1:50 am

HD Bee wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:51 am
HaHa! You got me thinking about making a Die Filer,
It wouldn’t be hard to make one or change the shaper into a horizontal one.
On the shaper you would only need to remove the clapper and install a clamping block for the file.
Yeah that would certainly make a stout die filer! Way better than using an old scroll saw which is what I had in mind. Or a sawzall mounted under a platen. If you try it, let me know how it works out... as if I need any more reasons to want a shaper LOL.

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Re: Silencer on a gas delayed blowback pistol?

Post by HD Bee » Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:55 am

strantor wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 1:50 am
HD Bee wrote:
Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:51 am
HaHa! You got me thinking about making a Die Filer,
It wouldn’t be hard to make one or change the shaper into a horizontal one.
On the shaper you would only need to remove the clapper and install a clamping block for the file.
Yeah that would certainly make a stout die filer! Way better than using an old scroll saw which is what I had in mind. Or a sawzall mounted under a platen. If you try it, let me know how it works out... as if I need any more reasons to want a shaper LOL.
I would fab one up. Get some angle iron and a plate to weld up as a frame. A 2 stroke 500 crank. Which would give you around a 3” stroke. Or make a crank. A couple of sets of pulleys, a motor and machine a ram. You could even fab a support arm with a 2nd ram if you wanted. Sounds like a fun project!

I have way two many projects as it is right now to start another.
Need to roll some more cans!!

When you get the CCP barrel finished post some pics of the barrel, barrel installed and the CCP with a can attached.
I would be very interested to see how it works out.

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Re: Silencer on a gas delayed blowback pistol?

Post by strantor » Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:13 pm

I received the two barrel blanks from Chaszel the other day and got started today making the new barrel. Most of the day was spent getting my tailstock aligned and then making an aluminum "device" (Arbor? Mandrel? Spider? Chuck?) To hold the barrel blank between centers true to the bore, and grip it from the outside so that I can turn it. I wanted to get it "perfectly" concentric and turned to a common size so that in all my later steps I can grab it with Morse draw collets in my spindle and forego all that fussy business with the dial indicator and chuck key. It turned out well; I'm pleased.

A few notes:

The barrel blanks from Chaszel were "perfectly" concentric and parallel, within the capacity of my .001" dial indicator.

The pressed-in barrel of the CCP is not as tight as what I expected for something referred to as a "pressed fit." It came out easily with several careful taps of a brass hammer. Which is good, because I saw no easy to get it in the hydraulic press. A special jig would need to be made to press it out that way.



Today's progress is concluded with turning the barrel to within .005" of the final shoulder dimension. I stopped to let it cool and then got called off to tend domestic responsibilities.

I have a job and 3 kids so I rarely get a chance to start a project and work it all the way to completion. I have gaps in progress, sometimes months long (not on this project, I promise), so I take lots of pictures of everything I do during a project, so I can remember how something goes back together or what step of a sequence I was on. Too many pictures never hurt anyone. I take lots. I've uploaded them to my google drive in case you want to follow along.

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id= ... DR_2olBNIh

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Re: Silencer on a gas delayed blowback pistol?

Post by HD Bee » Thu Mar 05, 2020 9:19 pm

Looks like a fun project. Thanks for the update!

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Re: Silencer on a gas delayed blowback pistol?

Post by strantor » Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:09 pm

I ruined both my barrel blanks. I'm furious. I don't have any spare cash to buy more. Nothing has gone my way in a long time. It will be a while before I try again.

Historian
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Re: Silencer on a gas delayed blowback pistol?

Post by Historian » Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:39 am

strantor wrote:
Sun Mar 08, 2020 7:09 pm
I ruined both my barrel blanks. I'm furious. I don't have any spare cash to buy more.
Nothing has gone my way in a long time. It will be a while before I try again.
We in this small 'elite' band of brothers have total empathy!

We all have been there and by
the grace of the Universe are still standing,
joyously dreaming of the next pile of
metal to butcher on that lathe of our dreams.

Yes brother!! We have all experienced ( just yesterday in fact)
eFFing up a part.

"What! I cut off more than .002 I had dialed in.
Third time! *$^#*@#** . Wasted that expensive rod.
What an arrogant dick thinking
you can emulate the Good Captain, T-Rex, Fishman, Monog0,etc."

"Kick-in-the-Nuts is that Heavenly Coffee!' becomes the background
theme.
Now all the unique descriptive bombastic words learned so long ago
in that machine shop from Dorchester Irish grumpy 'James Joyce' machinists come out in
a firehose stream.Downer.

Our combined 'arm around-the-shoulder' to you!
As the Bible says "...and this too shall pass". Guaranteed.
In the near future you shall overcome and make swarf ...
from the best teacher in the universe: the ice-cold-enema
of living as a human.

All the above blather is to say we all have so often been there, done
that, and fully recovered. Take heart, Sir!

Best!!
Last edited by Historian on Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Historian
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Re: Silencer on a gas delayed blowback pistol?

Post by Historian » Mon Mar 09, 2020 11:42 am

Redundant post erased. Sorry
Last edited by Historian on Mon Mar 09, 2020 2:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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