School Shooting In Newtown, CT-Multiple Deaths

[L1A1Rocker]

OMG!!!

Now THIS is disgusting!

http://blogs.roanoke.com/roundtable/201 ... -shooting/

[L1A1Rocker]

Folks, I've seen posted (and I'm guilty of it myself) BOHIC. We all know what that means but I'm revising that train of thought. DO NOT BEND OVER! Stand tall and do not cower or back down. Do NOT let gun controllers hang the shame of this tragedy on you. Be confident and stand firm. It is gun control and "gun free zones" that caused this. The blood of this tragedy is on the hands of those that would not let teachers and staff defend themselves and the children!!!

[bakerjw]

The best thing that we have going for us is that the firearms were all purchased legally but were used by a nut job. I have little doubt that we will hear more about how he slipped through the cracks like Loughner did.

I really hate to have to think about starting the fight against the gun control efforts that will be coming our way, but we can all deal with that tomorrow. All my wife and I can think about tonight are the poor families with Christmas presents under their trees for their children that will never come home. About how right now as I type this, mothers and fathers are waiting for the authorities to identify the victims before they can start making arrangements. About how they had to give descriptions of what heir child was wearing this morning so that they don't have to personally identify the body. Yes, tonight is one of those nights where we all have it easy. We should take a look at our problems and truly consider that our place could be much much worse.

[poikilotrm]

About how right now as I type this, mothers and fathers are waiting for the authorities to identify the victims before they can start making arrangements.

My buddy in CT says they have set up a hasty morgue in a warehouse and parents are being taken through to ID their kids. I don't think there are words to describe such a horror.

[Alael]

I have a little one, and trying to imagine what the parents of these little victims killed in this school are going through crushes my heart.

But a loony even without a firearm, with just an axe or a butcher knife still can make this kind of massacre.
I'm living in a country (waiting to bring back my family in the USA) where victims are left defenseless, and where criminals, in spite of all the gun control and prohibition, are armed even with automatic weapons. I see first hand what gun prohibition (named hypocritely "gun control") and its sister "the prohibition of self defense against criminals", have led to. I don't want this in the USA. I don't want my son be killed in the street stabbed to death just because he looked at a thug and this one think that he looked at him without enough respect (it happened here in France recently) without having a chance to defend himself.
And people who cherish the right to resist to crime and tyranny, one of the basic human right, are struck twice by this tragedy:
-First: by the horror and the sadness of this tragedy, especially because most of the victims are little kids.
-Second: by the lost of the right to be able to protect himself, dear ones or others from criminals. And the cynism, the hypocrisy and the lies of the gun prohibitionnits.
In this case the kids couldn't have protected themselves but the adults could have protected them if these adults had the mean to oppose to this killer. The gun prohibitionnists always laught at this idea, refusing to accept that no prohibition or control can prevent criminals to be armed. England, Norway and France had proved it.

[CThomas]

On average 26 children are killed per year in school bus related accidents, they say ~8 are killed while inside the buses during accidents, the others are killed while around the buses. This # is incredibly low given the number of kids who ride daily but perhaps all or some of those 8 would still be alive if the Feds mandated seatbelts in all buses. There is no major outcry for seatbelts, I guess 8 over a year is a low enough for the politicians and bean counters.

Now 20 kids killed by one loon in moments and the gun grabbing loons want to alter the rights of 300 + million americans now and the millions who will come later. These dips talk about how the gunmen got in, as if a lock could stop someone hell bent on killing. Lockdown starts at 9:20 so no one can get in. Hmmm so gunmen will just come at drop off time. These talking heads are such dipshits! Fox's Harris Faulkner (SP) said given her connection with the military she knew that targetting the gunmen would be hard given it was reported that he was wearing military black BDU's. WTF!

One thing I found telling about where we are at today was the reaction of my 6 year old nephew. He is a gun nut @ 6 and can identify most of the WW II guns. He saw the SWAT guys and their AR15's on the news and said hey look the "military" is at the school, why? I explained that they were not military guys but police. He told me that I should not lie to him that they were the soldiers because of how they were dressed and the guns they had.

[mhuffman]

In many countries they would drag the dead shooter's body outside and let the parent's of the victims, and anyone else who might want, kick the dead S#!t out of the shooter. Almost appropriate in this case. So sad.

[edarahk]

handguns were glock 10mm and sig (unknown cal)
rifle was a bushmaster m4 style carbine

My heart goes out to these folks, when I heard someone non-chalantly mention this happening at work today I was completely shocked and taken aback.. no way I thought.. and then I found out the truth, I wept.

The worst massacres occur in schools, why? GUN FREE ZONE. For a bad guy it's like shooting fish in a barrel. Yeah we have the second amendment but who carries? 1 in what? Im gonna take a guess and say 100, and maybe that's being generous.

As an American citizen, it's not just your right to responsibly conceal carry, it should be your DUTY.
Gun restrictions/control will only disarm/impede the good guys.

[Alael]

The French media has became an anti gun propaganda tool, French government wants to prohibit all firearms in France but the 2 millions hunters still resists, so the media try to make the propaganda to make the hunters and all firearms owners unpopular in the eyes of the public opinion. This tragedy is a dreamed opportunity for French media to hammer their propaganda... of course they took every propaganda coming from US gun prohibitionnist group to show the "american bad exemple".
The neswpapers "Le Parisien" put this propaganda on his site ( http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/e ... 409663.php ) :


But this picture should be the proof that Gun control and prohibition don't work:
Japan where firearms in general and handgun specifically are prhohibited: 48 killed, U-K where handgun are prohibited since 1996: 8 killed.....
Switzerland where soldiers bring back home their issued automatic assault rifle....34 (less than in Japan where firearms are prohibited).

I'm curious to know the details of the number of killed by firearms in the USA, they hammer the "10,000 deaths", but what is the detail.

[MV10]

As much as I loathe making a point that supports the wrong side of this argument, I bet the Israeli woman in L1A1Rocker's photo is (also) a soldier of some type.

He saw the SWAT guys and their AR15's on the news and said hey look the "military" is at the school, why? I explained that they were not military guys but police. He told me that I should not lie to him that they were the soldiers because of how they were dressed and the guns they had.

To a certain degree these days, your kid called it correctly...

[robpiat]

Best I can tell the US is the only major country that hasn't been ruled by a tyrant / dictator / foreign government and stayed that way for nearly 250 years. I don't know if there is another example of that in history, but I am sure somebody will come along that knows more about history.

If you want to be a society that has strict gun regulations, try Mexico out. They seem to be doing well with the gun free zone thing.

[Alael]

Best I can tell the US is the only major country that hasn't been ruled by a tyrant / dictator / foreign government and stayed that way for nearly 250 years. I don't know if there is another example of that in history, but I am sure somebody will come along that knows more about history.

If you want to be a society that has strict gun regulations, try Mexico out. They seem to be doing well with the gun free zone thing.

+1

For instance French Republic was born soon after the US Republic.... the First French Republic's constitution lasted only 8 year before Napoleon Bonaparte hijacked this country and crowned himself Emperor. Most of French still admire Bonaparte who was indeed a dictator.... France is at its 5th Republic, not without in between had came back to Monarchy, Empire again, collaborated with the Nazi during the Vichy governement.
You need to hear here how the French media are hammering their propaganda against the 2nd Amendment...more likely to persuade the Frenchs to cease resisting against gun prohibition the government wants here. The criminals and gangs get more and more violent and the french justice system weaker and weaker, so the politicians are afraid that law abiding citizens are tempted to oppose to the criminals which will result in a civil war ..do you remember the riots occured in France in 2005. Then people did'nt even yet oppose to the rioters, but suffered in silence, without responding to arsons, lynching, looting. 100 cops was wounded, some shot, without beeing able to fire back (a female Police Sergeant pulled down the pistol of one of her men while he was trying to shoot back to a rioter who opened fire on them with a shotgun wounding some of them, she was decorated later whith a medal for her courage under fire to have stopped the escalation of violence preventing her cops to shoot back- true and sad story).
In France or U-K politicians chose to conveniently sacrify a certain (statistically tolerable according to them) percentage of the population to the criminals for "the good of the bigger part of the population".

[Bendersquint]

The French media has became an anti gun propaganda tool, French government wants to prohibit all firearms in France but the 2 millions hunters still resists, so the media try to make the propaganda to make the hunters and all firearms owners unpopular in the eyes of the public opinion. This tragedy is a dreamed opportunity for French media to hammer their propaganda... of course they took every propaganda coming from US gun prohibitionnist group to show the "american bad exemple".
The neswpapers "Le Parisien" put this propaganda on his site ( http://www.leparisien.fr/faits-divers/e ... 409663.php ) :


But this picture should be the proof that Gun control and prohibition don't work:
Japan where firearms in general and handgun specifically are prhohibited: 48 killed, U-K where handgun are prohibited since 1996: 8 killed.....
Switzerland where soldiers bring back home their issued automatic assault rifle....34 (less than in Japan where firearms are prohibited).

I'm curious to know the details of the number of killed by firearms in the USA, they hammer the "10,000 deaths", but what is the detail.

In 2008 there was 11,728 people killed with firearms in the US(including cop killing which was surprisingly high), not 10,000 with handguns. Look who wrote the ad, "HANDGUN CONTROL Inc"

[Alael]

In 2008 there was 11,728 people killed with firearms in the US(including cop killing which was surprisingly high), not 10,000 with handguns. Look who wrote the ad, "HANDGUN CONTROL Inc"

I know, since yesterday french medias are all about hammering the propraganda from US anti-weapon lefty liberal medias (Washington Post, New-York Times, Bloomberg...) and gun prohibitionnist associations (like Brady Campaign etc...) and their lies...
A French anchor just said on TV, that because of the gun sale incrase in the USA there is an incrase of murders, while the last report from FBI proove the opposite, there was a boom of gun sale and the homicide stats are lower than ever since the 60's... lie from the biased medias.... I'm on my keyboard trying to show this on French news website.. but most of the time my comments are rejected by the censorship: they want message of people criticising the USA, they want angry words agaisnt the NRA and american gun owner and french gun owners, they want people saying France need to ban all firearms and the USA would better follow this way....But surely not someone who try to show the truth about some facts they distorted.

[MV10]

If you want to be a society that has strict gun regulations, try Mexico out. They seem to be doing well with the gun free zone thing.

I assume this was sarcasm...?

[Alael]

A petition to the President:

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petiti ... g/BR1Wj8cc

It will be good if at least 25,000 of signature are collected soon.

[Alael]

Here we go:
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/hea ... weapons-ba

[700PSS]

Adam tried to buy a rifle three days before the attack from a Dick’s Sporting Goods store in Danbury, Conn., but was turned away, employees confirmed.

The madman was rebuffed because he refused to follow the mandatory waiting period or undergo a background check, NBC News reported.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/moth ... iQz9x3BmTJ

[Bendersquint]

Here we go:
http://videocafe.crooksandliars.com/hea ... weapons-ba

This shouldn't surprise anyone at all.

At least there is a grandfather clause.

[silencertalk]

First, I want to puke that someone would do this, but it is no more explainable than an earthquake - he was insane.

There is only one mass shooting per year for every 150 million guns - a very low record - hardly something that can be prepared for or stopped - and I am not going to worry my kids by discussing it with them.

You are still 17 times more likely to die from a medical error at the hands of a doctor than to be murdered with a firearm.

Again, if my kids were getting surgery - why worry them about the chance of a medical mistake?

And we should not give up any rights due to the action of someone with mental illness.

And moreover, the only thing which a chance of stopping this was self-defense guns at the school - which I would allow, though not necessarily encourage, as the event is too rare.

[L1A1Rocker]

And we should not give up any rights due to the action of someone with mental illness.

Taken from another forum, with permission. Spread it around please:

The real issue is with "mainstreaming" the mentally ill.

Columbine
Westroads Mall shooting
Colorado Springs Church
Tucson
Century Theater
Virginia Tech
Salt Lake City Mall
Clackamas Mall
Sandy Hook Elementary

Every one of these atrocities was perpetrated by mentally unstable males between the ages of 15 and 30. Some were already on meds. None were institutionalized. That's where our energies should be focused instead of on destroying the bill of rights.

[silencertalk]

My wife is a super safety freak and we have padding on all of the corners in the house - and special things on doors that keep you from getting your finger caught in them. When something like this happens, she seems happy that we have guns for protection - but of course they are locked up if I am not wearing them. The mother really should have had her guns in a safe.

Now let me analyze what happened:

1. The school did the right thing by locking down - he only got into one or two rooms and then had to kill himself as the police arrived before he could get into others.

2. The only way to have a faster response is to have guns in the school. Police response seems to have been 20 minutes.

3. When we talk about arming teachers - it is silly to think "we are going to give guns to teachers." The women who end up as grade-school teachers are just not gun people. But to have about three people in a school wearing a gun if they are gun people (not allowed to have it off their body in a handbag or desk) - and 2-3 ARs in a safe in the main office and three people who had the combination - that would be good. Think of it like a fire extinguisher - break glass if needed.

As for gun bans - they won't happen nationally but a few states like CT may get local laws. Feinstein is going to float them, they will fail, and we will probably not hear from her again.

We learned our lesson after letting the 1994 ban pass - it was the dark ages, and did nothing for crime - and even if it did something for crime, it would not have been worth it.

[Bendersquint]

My wife is a super safety freak and we have padding on all of the corners in the house - and special things on doors that keep you from getting your finger caught in them. When something like this happens, she seems happy that we have guns for protection - but of course they are locked up if I am not wearing them. The mother really should have had her guns in a safe.

Now let me analyze what happened:

1. The school did the right thing by locking down - he only got into one or two rooms and then had to kill himself as the police arrived before he could get into others.

2. The only way to have a faster response is to have guns in the school.

3. When we talk about arming teachers - it is silly to think "we are going to give guns to teachers." The women who end up as grade-school teachers are just not gun people. But to have about three people in a school wearing a gun if they are gun people (not allowed to have it off their body in a handbag or desk) - and 2-3 ARs in a safe in the main office and three people who had the combination - that would be good. Think of it like a fire extinguisher - break glass if needed.

As for gun bans - they won't happen nationally but a few states like CT may get local laws. Feinstein is going to float them, they will fail, and we will probably not hear from her again.

We learned our lesson after letting the 1994 ban pass - it was the dark ages, and did nothing for crime - and even if it did something for crime, it would not have been worth it.

Glad you are confident that there will be no more bans. We shall see at the First Congress of 2013.

[silencertalk]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/12/1 ... 11009.html

[poikilotrm]

1. The school did the right thing by locking down - he only got into one or two rooms and then had to kill himself as the police arrived before he could get into others.

I strongly, but respectfully, disagree. If you want to debate the merits, make a seperate thread. It derserves dissection.