Snowden. Traitor? Patriot? Other?

[bakerjw]

Pretty self explanatory. What is your take on Snowden?

[YugoRPK]

Patriot, pure and simple. If there is anyone in the modern age who I could call more of a patriot to the ideals of American liberty, I can't think of who it might be. Here is a man who has thrown his own liberty and career under the bus to raise the flag of liberty. Statists will call him a traitor. As a Libertarian I applaud Mr. Snowden and find it ironic and telling that he has to find asylum in places like China, Russia and Cuba. I hope he finds a nice beach in Venezuela to live out his days.

In the next few years we will find the Patriot Act, that vile piece of garbage, start to unravel once the American people figure out the depths to which the state has sunken.

[700PSS]

(I just clicked on this thread only because I saw Yugo was the last to post.)

[YugoRPK]

Personally, I will be highly disappointed in old Vlad Putin if he doesnt tell the U.S. to go F--k yourself on this one. I miss the good old days when we pretended like we were the good guys.

[silencertalk]

You can't decide on your own what secrets to break.

On the other hand, if there was a crashed alien spaceship and/or aliens in captivity - that is to big to be a secret.

I always assumed that our phones and email was being monitored.

I thought he was a patriot at first, but criticizing the US when on Chinese soil is just too much.

[YugoRPK]

He could be on Iranian or North Korean soil and he'd still be right. That Franklin thing about giving up essential liberties etc still applies.

I don't give a damn if he broke the law. The law is wrong. And yes, I do advocate the civil and/or un-civil disobedience of unconstitutional statutes.

[doubloon]

Exposing violations of trust and abuse of power is not exactly the same as deciding which secrets to break.

No launch codes were divulged and no weapons or weapon plans were sold. No U.S. lives (military, agency or civilian) were put at risk from his actions. Those are the broad strokes but it wasn't an act of treason in my book.

I picked patriot from the choices above because I was somewhere between patriot and other but definitely not a traitor.

[Waveman]

Traitor, he broke his oath, ran to the Chicoms , and is now on a tour of countries that are our adversaries. He is not well,he lacks honor, and is being exploited by countries under Chinese influence. If you think our security process and procedures should be changed, contact the press and ask for a good lawyer. It will not be pleasant, but taking on the system never is.

[silencertalk]

We have no privacy - I am not sure why anyone thinks we do. So much about us is searchable in public or private databases. This degree of spying on Americans is not extraordinary. And as I said, I always assumed it was done ever since I read about http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

It is sort of well known that the US has used the British to spy on US citizens to keep from breaking the law.

John Stossel is very anti-govt, pro freedom and liberty, and he basically said whatever - he didn't care as he also knows he has no privacy.

He could be on Iranian or North Korean soil and he'd still be right.

I am not saying he is not right, but you don't "Talk out of school."

He should do it from the US.

I can say bad things about the Red Sox in Boston, but you don't go to NY and do it.

It was fine to criticize the Vietnam War, but don't do it from North Vietnam:

[doubloon]

If it's such a well known fact then why is it such a big deal to talk about it?

[YugoRPK]

Talking about the US while in the US would be stupid. The guy has survival instincts. He's putting info out there ( that is widely known ) that he could potentially be tried for espionage for or something similar. No one gets tried for treason so don't go there. In any case dudes on the run because he doesnt want to go to jail. I'd run like a little pussy too to keep out of club fed or the Guantanamo Gulag. He's got the means and the opportunity. Fly, Be free.

[D9M9TR9S]

A patriot to the people, traitor to this government/administration. I think that he should've thought more about HOW be would divulge the info and wouldn't have gone to places like China or Russia in the process, he may as well put a target on his head for a possible drone strike. He took an oath to protect secret info and activities that most of what should've already been long realized by the American population that we have no privacy.

[silencertalk]

Talking about the US while in the US would be stupid. The guy has survival instincts.

This is not civil disobedience.

[silencertalk]

By the way, I don't think this program's cost in dollars and how it protects us is worth the loss of liberty. I don't fear terrorism as it is so rare. Maybe it is rare because the govt stops it, I am not sure.

[YugoRPK]

. I think that he should've thought more about HOW be would divulge the info and wouldn't have gone to places like China or Russia in the process, he may as well put a target on his head for a possible drone strike. .

To the contrary, I think he spent a lot of time thinking about where he'd go amd has played it masterfully. The US is going to send a drone to attack him in Russia or China? Really? He picked two of the safest places in the world to be . Neither one are particularly interested in towing Washington's line and neither are sucking off Uncle Sam's teat. Both have strong military presences and would react quite unfavorably if a drone was to be fired into their territory. Sad that we have come to the point where we are even discussing the possibility of the US firing drones to assassinate US citizens for political dissent.

[doubloon]

There is no way he could do what he did and be hailed as a hero by the majority.

What he did cannot be compared to Jane Fonda or Iva Toguri.

Similar to the Olmstead wiretapping case it seems collecting data from cell phones, without permission or warrant, could be interpreted as a violation of the 4th. It would be a long reach to make that argument but maybe not entirely impossible. Unless you're renting it your cell phone and everything in it is one of your movable personal effects protected by the 4th. Theoretically all the data you spray into the atmosphere from the device is protected from snooping save for the permission you unwittingly give to your carrier and every app you download. But in general even those agreements have some restrictions on what can be collected and how it's used.

Granted people share a lot more data than they are even aware of with regard to credit or loyalty card purchases, location information on their "smart" phones and of course the internet which is about as private as a glass outhouse but that doesn't mean lines haven't been crossed. The data isn't free for collection and analysis just because it's out there riding on the radio and air waves.

Why don't we apply the same "privacy" logic to security? Do you really think you are secure?

My front door is unlocked and I'm not home. Does that mean anyone has the right to walk in off the street to take anything they want , make copies of any documents that may be lying around or install some device to record activities in my home?

There is a suitcase lying in my front yard, it's not tied down or even locked. Does that mean anyone has the right to take it or even open it up and look inside? Sure, I'm stupid for leaving an unlocked suitcase full of money in my front yard and it will probably be gone by morning but that doesn't mean whoever took it is in the right. Hell, even if it was a suitcase full of cocaine it's nobody's business without probably cause.

My truck broke down on the way home from work. It's a simple repair but the parts store is closed so I left it on the side of the road until tomorrow not wanting to pay for a tow. Does that mean anyone driving by has the right to take whatever they want out of the truck bed?

Security is just as big a joke as privacy but that doesn't mean everything should be free for the taking.

Violation of trust and abuse of power. Even though we all know it happens all the time Snowden did the right thing. To say he didn't is about the same to me as saying we know things get stolen all the time so we shouldn't report a kidnapping if we see one.

[bakerjw]

Violation of trust and abuse of power.

Trademarks of our federal government

[silencertalk]

I am confused. You would or would not use a drone to strike his Wikileaks convoy?

[doubloon]

That would depend on who was in it or what TOO might be within the blast radius.

Paula Deen?

[silencertalk]

While I am sad that anyone can make a mistake and lose their job (because people are basically good - so you do 10,000 things right and 1 thing wrong), I have never said what she said, even in private, and find it pretty shocking (unless it was the affectionate version).

[renegade]

He is just a dumbass.

I have not seen anything he leaked that was not common knowledge and previously leaked. I am a little surprised it is such a big story. I am not surprised he fled. The US, especially Obama Admin, is trying to prosecute anyone who leaks anything, except of course when Obama officials do it. This is pretty much unprecedented in the last 30 years.

[doubloon]

He is just a dumbass.
...

This ... is indisputable. And applicable to Paula as well.

But sometimes it takes a dumbass to get the ball rolling in the right direction and I believe not scrutinizing the activities of every U.S. citizen and not subjecting us all to precrime analysis is the right direction. People will stand by and watch something they think is wrong without ever saying anything because nobody else said anything first and if nobody says anything it must be OK for that man to beat his wife in the park because she didn't make him a sammich for the picnic basket. OK, maybe a bad example. But the point is sometimes a dumbass is the right guy or maybe the only guy for the job and just because he's a dumbass it doesn't mean it didn't need to be done. Somebody has to be the first one to point at that big gray blob and say "Elephant!".

I won't argue that scanning every phone call and credit purchase for every person in the country wouldn't occasionally uncover some nefarious plot but there is no way anything being done even now will ever prevent every possible attack in the future. Didn't we train the guys who flew planes into the WTC? Why didn't we catch them before the attack? Do you think we would catch them today?

I'm not saying we shouldn't make an effort to prevent attacks, just not at the cost of liberty or under the burden of corruption. I would rather live free with a government I trust and when the inevitable attack does happen saddle up and erase the fuckers responsible for the attack from history.

That way the next time two terrorists are squatting by a rock wiping their asses with sand and one says "I'm tired of wiping my ass with sand we should blow up something in America." the other terrorist will say "Shhh! Remember what happened to the Pakigharanis?". Then the first terrorist will ask "Who the F--k are the Pakigharanis?" and the other will reply "Exactly!".

[TROOPER]

He is just a dumbass.

I have not seen anything he leaked that was not common knowledge and previously leaked. I am a little surprised it is such a big story. I am not surprised he fled. The US, especially Obama Admin, is trying to prosecute anyone who leaks anything, except of course when Obama officials do it. This is pretty much unprecedented in the last 30 years.

This. Worse, we're seeing the same thing as when that retarded Congressman spouted out how we were homing in on cellphone signals in Afghanistan in order to target a strike.

The next day.... cellphone silence.

What we're seeing now is that named terrorist groups are turning off their cellphones. Snowden compromised a source - excuse me - Snowden compromised THE source.

There were other ways for him to handle this - he chose this way because he is a self-righteous, guilt-ridden, mealy-mouthed fuckstain who can't keep his word. Traitor.

I'm totally fine with a drone-strike on this bag of s--t.

[doubloon]

But just to be clear, there are quite a few we'd like to see drone struck before Snowden?

[YugoRPK]

But just to be clear, there are quite a few we'd like to see drone struck before Snowden?