Pretty simple. How many of us have a backpack? Not a day pack, but a good frame backpack with a waist belt for support? If you have to carry supplies any distance by foot, a backpack is a must.

Another thing to keep handy is a bicycle. The Viet Cong moved a lot of supplies on the HoChMin trail with bicycles acting as carts.

My take on SHTF backpacks are that they should not be too big. You want to stay low key, mobile, and not carry unnecessary crap. Expedition style packs are out. A cheap backpack is out because the build quality is laking you don't want it to come apart on you.

I like a good quality day pack no more than 2600 cu in. 1800 works too.

I bought the Kelty MAP 3500 3-day assault pack about 3 years ago and it is a superb pack (2300 cu in), right in the size range you mention Ramius. The internal suspension is superb. Every time I use this pack, I'm reminded of what a great deal it was. This thing is perfect, with every seam well done, it feels great when loaded, and has lots of extras.

http://www.amronintl.com/kelty-map-3500 ... -pack.html

I have a nice Eberlestock operator pack. Love it and it gives me the option of bringing an extra long gun with me so I don't have to choose just one.

http://www.eberlestock.com/G4%20Operator.htm

Have an admitted backpack fetish, although a little light on the expedition level size. Multiple day/3 day/man purse, packs here.

The issue becomes one of weight and mobility. Have decided that in the extreme bugout case, (and I mean an extreme case that absolutely, with no other option, requires me to hoof it out of my castle) a load carrying vest/belt, with a 3 day size pack is where it's at. Without going into the specific load out, figuring I'm good for maybe two weeks plus, on my own.

The test is loading what you think is important and then doing a proof run. Take all that stuff for an overnite hike through the woods. Not in my prime anymore, and it took 3 tries before I got a good handle on what I could realistically expect to carry and remain mobile. Firearm(s), ammo, and H20/food can get heavy in a hurry. Add com/geo travel/fire/survival tools, toiletries/first aid, basic shelter and clothing needs, and it all starts to add up.

Primary changes/epiphany(s).
1) Water can be found. The stuff to make it potable is lighter.
2) Field mix has needed calories and delicious when you think you're hungry (I've never really been hungry). Spam is a kings feast. MRE packs take up a lot of room.
3) Making fire is essential. A bic (and a spare), with a few starter "sticks", trump the F'ed up bow and stick thing.
4) Basic shelter is a poncho and one of those padded seat thingys that keeps ure ass off the ground.
5) Basic first aid is an absolute neccesity. Basic plus is recommended.
6) Extra socks... period. A pair of seal skin socks rules. Change of underwear optional, but suggested. (Being cold and wet sucks. Being cold and wet with ass itch and damp feet is the equivalent of visiting Hell in a soggy hail storm.)
7) I can't carry ninety-eleven guns, with ammo... along with everything else... for an extended period of time. Sux, but it is what it is.
a) Settled on a suppressed 10" 5.56 AR, a suppressor ready (suppressor in pack side pocket) 9mm Sig 226, and a K-Bar knife, (with cleaning supplies) as bare minimum.
b) 200 rounds of various 5.56 ammo in mags. 200 more loose. 40 some 9mm rounds in mags, extra box of 50 rounds.

It all fits in an internal framed, 3 day pack. On the upside, as you use stuff, the pack gets lighter.

Despite a sense of need, I gave up the BA .308, the 12g SBS, and suppressed .22 pistol. Still torn between the BA .308 and the AR, but I can ruin anyones day, from close contact to the plus 300 yd range(s), with the AR, so it wins in this category.

Given all that... have no interest in being forced to go to ground. Long ago stuff for this kid. Would rather have a nuke do the ground zero thing above my house. Howevah... IMHO, a good back pack with known loading, is a good thing to have ready.

A bicycle? Really? You go buy a bike. I'm gonna spend my money on a street whore to carry more ammo. She better come with a good backpack of her own to carry her personal needs.

Your question grabbed my attention baker. Kinda went wild on one possible use for a back pack. Apologize for the apparent thread jack.

Actually I have several bikes. Mountain, road, tandem, etc... What I was thinking about was this.

Point taken. As I understand things, it was all done at risk of an AC-130 gunship showing up and expressing interest. Bad karma for those on the trails.

You ride your bike. I'll do my best to be less conspicuous. As in minutely so.

I scored a London Bridge Trading 3-day pack during their last sale ($99) - it's a fantastic backpack scored at a smoking price. The Camelbak BFM is also an awesome pack (better than my LBT, I think) if one is buying outside of sales.

GORUCK GR2

Seems spendy, but once you handle one, it's hard to put it down.

Osprey internal frame for actual sport backpacking trips...not tactical use. Very well built but HUGE. 5600cu, if memory serves, most of which is needed for water bladders. Through hiking a week in the desert takes a LOT of water unless you've cached it ahead of time. Non-desert use, I could get by with half that capacity, easy.

I hate how big and roomy backpacks look until you get the full water bladder in there - they always end up robbing you of space you need.

bakerjw wrote:... frame backpack with a waist belt for support? ...

Often overlooked and later regretted. Shifting weight loads will tear you up one way or another.

I tend to like most of Continuity's shopping list. How come people never pack enough hooks?

Continuity, I see your point about keeping a lower profile. Where I live it's a bug in plan with bugout as secondary. At this point Grandchildren have to be included and the bike thing is in the plan. not as low profile but can be pretty low. The 4 yr old is just not going to carry his "fair share" as our liberal cousins would say....I have 50 miles, more like 30 as the crow flies, but there are mountains involved.

doubloon wrote:

bakerjw wrote:... frame backpack with a waist belt for support? ...

Often overlooked and later regretted. Shifting weight loads will tear you up one way or another.

I tend to like most of Continuity's shopping list. How come people never pack enough hooks?

Hooks?

Fish type. Good for lots of stuff, fishing, snares, stitching needle in a pinch ... different sizes different uses.

When you first wrote that I figured you were talking about fishing hooks...but then I thought maybe not, better check. Thanks.

Syntax360 wrote:I hate how big and roomy backpacks look until you get the full water bladder in there - they always end up robbing you of space you need.

If you're going to be humping any distance with a large ruck on, strap your water bladder across the top of the ruck; that way you don't compromise space in your ruck, and it is immediately accessible to refill without having to open up your ruck. Plus, you won't have to worry about bladder ruptures soaking everything inside your ruck.

Only packs I have are military; large alice, ACU Molle, and OCP medium Molle ruck which is like a larger version of the assault pack with a frame. Of the 3, the ACU Molle ruck is my favorite due to the horizontal and vertical straps to cinch down the main compartment. The OCP pack looks good, but carries the load horribly, there are no straps to tighten up the load and it seems to just hang sloppy off of the frame. I have a lot of miles under the large Alice but my back screams under it anymore even with a light 25-30 lb load, the large molle I can move up to 60 lbs comfortably and keep a 15 minute mile pace on the road.

I have several backpacks .. One ancient Lowe Specialist mountaineering internal frame .. I've had that pack since 1988, used it every year for the first 12 years on glacier expeditions, 1, 2 or 3 times a year .. carrying 20 - 40 pounds skiing, and climbing .. The pack is still in perfect working order .. Unbeatable quality .. in '13 it went along with me to New Zealand Hunting in the mountains of the south island for about a month .. LR rifle strapped to the side .. complete camp gear and clothes inside .. I have a few "military" backpacks, among those a Camelbak .. none of those come even close to the old Lowa when it comes to carrying comfort or quality .. I have worn out several waterproof covers for that pack.. The Camelbak served well in Afghanistan though--

That old Lowe pack is the one that will come with me in a SHTF situation .. along with the camouflaged waterproof cover (the old pack is dark blue)

On top of it I will tie my Ortlieb waterproof day-pack..

The Camelbak is now my "bug out bag" if things go "funky" in a real hurry ...
Here's whats in it:

Red Waterproof bag with reflexes containing a reasonably complete medical emergency kit . (including two "space blankets")
Yellow waterproof bag that contains repair kit (superglue, ties, patches, needles, thread, wire saw etc.)
Blue waterproof bag, containing "paperwork" compass e.t.c.
Water purifyer (platypus gravity)

Bushcraft knife, Glock folding shovel .. small fold up wood/chip burning stove made from thin Titanium sheet..

Titanium cooking pot ..

Tarp .. lots of paracord + a 10 m length of wowen/braided dyneema cord. (1600 pounds breaking)

My old uncomplicated mountainbike is the perfect "bug out vehicle" IMHO .. Its light (can be carried) its very nearly silent, It will carry a lot of weight, it can be concealed (Mine is "satin" black) It can be "field repaired" and use the same fuel as I do

"Fuel" in the "bug out bag" : Instant noodles .. beef/venison jerky, Powdered protein, plain sugar in a 0.5liter plastic bottle ..

I just did this: http://www.medwar.org/tennessee/

I took my osprey atmos 50 and hill people gear chest pack, along with my 10+ year old Raleigh mountain bike. I had new brake pads, new tires, new cables, a new chain and a new fork put on beforehand. We hiked 10 miles in a few hours with a 1600 foot elevation change (actually 3200 feet I guess, since I went up AND down a combined total of 1600 feet). The osprey is great, I have done some short sections of the AT with it (like 2 days or thereabouts) and it has plenty of room for food, rain gear, cold weather gear etc. It is also SUPER comfortable and if you don't overload it the suspension system keeps your back from getting sweaty. Taking the bike was a bitch, I rode (ok, mostly pushed or carried) it through 600 feet (1200 if you count the up and down portions) of the elevation change. I use clipless pedals, which help you transmit force to the bike more efficiently and through the entire pedal stroke. The cycling shoes actually helped in the muddy climbing portion when I had to push the bike.

If you haven't tried them, get some trekking poles. I used them for the first time on this race and they helped A LOT. They also help you keep your footing when you are on slick rocks and mud.

I made it to 14,450 ft with a Mystery Ranch pack
carried:
12 magazines for my M21 EBR.
2 set of Multicam
Kuiu rain jacket/pants
Merino Socks (4 pairs)
Kuiu pants (2 Pairs)
Combat Lifesaver bag
Spotting Scope (Leupold MK4)
Carbon Fiber Tripod
HOG Saddle
extra pair of Scarpa boots
Pack Tent
Tarp
titanium pegs
Black Box (10lb black box)
Antenna for box (2-3lbs)
cable 1lb
stripped mre's
2 100oz bladders locked with IV Locks
Panasonic Toughpad
1 big ass jar of Peanut butter
5 MRE cracker packs
Energy Gels
Pakul
Jaimez (Man jams)
flip flop bottoms rigged with velcro straps (to sanitize our trail)
2 bottles of Vodka
oxygen bottle (tiny one, with a small amount of nitrox, my mix for climbing)
Crampons
Black diamond ace axes
Random part of Barrett system, I carried ammo most of the time, sometimes I carried the MORS box and scope, we usually kept ammo in mags but no loose stuff. If you wrap them in ziploks them mold C4 around them they dont rattle and sink when thrown in water and if you put it in the document bag before you light it, it will burn not explode if you had to get rid of it. OPSEC is a big part of carrying gear if you dont want to compromise operations, a big part of that is a destructive plan.

This is my LRST setup for work on the Border, it also included a document pouch that had a thermite liner and an E&E pouch. If you need more help, PM me, trying to limit the stuff I put out in the open, we still have folks using an updated version of this in the field.

It ran great, trying to find the model, think it was the Overload, with a Comm2 module for the black box.
looking for pics without metadata and the black box in it.