Advice On Opening A Suppressor Business

[MetalChips]

Hello Gentlemen!

I've been rummaging through the pages of Silencer Talk for the last few years but have never made an account until today. That's not to say I haven't tried, but my E-mail types have never been accepted...But that is besides the point!

There is undoubtedly a massive wealth of information within the forums and I've tried to absorb all I can in the last few years. This combined with my several years of machining experience has me feeling pretty confident in my business venture; to start a suppressor manufacturing business.

Currently at the ripe old age of 20, Im about 6 months away from even being able to apply for my FFL 7 and thereafter my SOT 2, but feel it is absolutely necessary to squeeze every bit of advice and knowledge that I can out of the proverbial fruit of knowledge that I am calling Silencer Talk and the folks that reside within it.

I'm located in central Washington state, which is basically a big desert. Contrary to popular believe, all of Washington is not Seattle. This is to say that I am not too concerned about local zoning laws and city permitting when I decide to get the ball rolling.

Instead, I was firstly hoping for advice when applying for the 07 FFL-- I'm by no means asking for an exact walkthrough, but instead perhaps the "Cliffs Notes".

So folks....A penny for your thoughts?

Thanks,
-James

PS... I will literally mail you a penny if need be!

[Bendersquint]

Do you own a silencer or have you had alot of experience with silencers(besides type on a webpage and pictures)?

Have you ever built a can? THAT would be the first logical step before you pursue a career/livelihood in it.

Between all the licensing and fees and equipment needed I would say build a can and see if A you enjoy it, B you are any good at it, C based on A and B see if you have a market for your wares.

Best of Luck.

[Tony M.]

I don't want to be a downer, but before opening a business in a super regulated and highly competitive field, I would seriously recommend taking some business classes.

And some machining classes.

And then get a job working for someone else in the business for a while, to make sure it's all you think it's cracked up to be right now.

Once all of that has transpired, if you still want to go into the silencer business, then by all means do.

Knowing a lot about silencers is a great place to start, but the difference between doing something as a hobby, and doing something as a business is a vast one. To be successful, you must be decent at making silencers, and good at doing business.

[Bendersquint]

I don't want to be a downer, but before opening a business in a super regulated and highly competitive field, I would seriously recommend taking some business classes.

And some machining classes.

And then get a job working for someone else in the business for a while, to make sure it's all you think it's cracked up to be right now.

Once all of that has transpired, if you still want to go into the silencer business, then by all means do.

Knowing a lot about silencers is a great place to start, but the difference between doing something as a hobby, and doing something as a business is a vast one. To be successful, you must be decent at making silencers, and good at doing business.

Completely agree with you.

Alot more to be said but I am sure discussion will ensue.

[MetalChips]

Bender and Tony,

Unfortunately I don't personally own a can of my own but I do have quite a bit of experience with then. A few friends have a few cans that I shoot every chance I get. Of course, It would be rude not to offer to take them apart and clean them also! Thus I get to see how all the magic happens.

Please don't think I just had an epiphany a few days ago and decided I wanted to go full-out on a whim. I've been running a lathe and mill since I was 14, and gunsmithing since I was 16. I've owned my own lathe and mill since I was 16, and just bought received my first CNC mill a few weeks back. By no means does this make me an expert with everything guns or a seasoned machinist, but I would like to think that I've at least got a firm grasp on the basics.

Also, I am most interested in getting my 07/02 for prototyping to start with. I certainly don't have a vision of conquering the entire suppressor market, and may have titled my post a little ambitious in that aspect. I know very well that It will be a process that will more likely than not take a few years.

Ever since I first heard and saw the internals of a .22 can a few years back I have been absolutely hooked and am sure that I need to enter the business when I'm legally of age...

[MetalChips]

Tony, because I knew that I wanted to get into the firearm business from a young age a choose to attend a "running start" program in highschool. With that I was able to go to community college in lieu of my last two years of high school. There I took as many business classes as I could and got my AA. Nothing too impressive, I know. I'm also just about to conclude my BA in ITAM with a business emphasis in the next few months. On top of that I am attending online gunsmithing classes and should be done with that in the next month or so. That is mostly just to have the certificate...because It's shiny.

I've been the local machinist for many local farmers for a few years now. I also worked at an ammo remanufacturing place where I was a manager. While there I almost caught an exploded brass casing in the face and decided I needed to spend more time on my gunsmithing. I also had a feeling the place was going under...which it did several months later-glad I left. If there was ever a person who really needed to take a business class, it was my boss at the time.

I hate to sound like I'm trying to impress anyone, that is by no means my intention and I wouldn't consider myself impressive anyway! But I am trying to show that I have invested a large amount of time and money to achieve this plan and am willing to invest a whole lot more of both to make it work, but I am at a point where a little bit of knowledge would be very beneficial.

And I will never, ever ask "So I need some dimensions for a .22 suppressor...like OD, Bore size, length, material, threads, and if you could just send me the cad file of an entirely finished one that will reproduce squirrel farts, then I think that might just be enough information to get me started".

I hope that's enough information to get my though process across! So I suppose I should rephrase my question to specifically include an 02 SOT also, because that Is my main plan right now.

Thanks again gentlemen!

[Historian]

May I offer my best wishes and encouragement to your passion for metal art.

Following the above advice on gaining the maximum education on business as well
as metallurgy, etc,. will give you a major advantage in your passion/career.

In addition, ask yourself what areas your machining/designing/business skill
could be an extension of your final business. For example could you envision
eventually having a shop that supplies parts to aerospace industry or Law Enforcement? Then you would
be free to develop suppressors, gun parts, weapons designs without being vulnerable to fluctuations
that a single product shop would be subject to.

I sense an intelligence and enthusiasm the portends a most happy and successful life.
Add my fondest wishes to your future success and fun.

Learning NEVER stops.

As Rush Limbaugh says, as well as I and many I have known over the years ( century? ),
pursue and do your passion and you will never have to work a day in your life.

Best.

[MetalChips]

May I offer my best wishes and encouragement to your passion for metal art.

Following the above advice on gaining the maximum education on business as well
as metallurgy, etc,. will give you a major advantage in your passion/career.

In addition, ask yourself what areas your machining/designing/business skill
could be an extension of your final business. For example could you envision
eventually having a shop that supplies parts to aerospace industry or Law Enforcement? Then you would
be free to develop suppressors, gun parts, weapons designs without being vulnerable to fluctuations
that a single product shop would be subject to.

I sense an intelligence and enthusiasm the portends a most happy and successful life.
Add my fondest wishes to your future success and fun.

Learning NEVER stops.

As Rush Limbaugh says, as well as I and many I have known over the years ( century? ),
pursue and do your passion and you will never have to work a day in your life.

Best.

Historian,

Thank you for you kind words of encouragement, I really do appreciate them.

As for other products and services out of my shop, I have quite a few that I already do and more that I believe are viable options. I just didn't want to bore folks with them, as they are non-related to suppressors and not quite as exciting as aerospace and law enforcement sales.

I also have several backup plans. Plans B, C and D to be exact. I don't know every last risk involved in my plan, but I've prepared for lots of them along the way. And the others? Well I leave those there to spice up the experience a little bit! Can't play it safe entirely, life gets a little too stagnant that way.

[HK45]

In business they say "find a void and fill it".
What void would another suppressor manufacturer fill?

[Tony M.]

It sounds like you're well on your way and taking a more thorough and thoughtful approach than many of the folks who want to go into business.

[Pat M]

carry extras, like pouchs, cleaners, thermal wraps, and extra quick mounts. Prepare to spend lots of time on the phone - chasing down arrival date, stamps and when suppressors are due into your shop (i've had to rattle a bunch of cages weekly to keep balls rolling)

And - a good lathe to thread barrels, great for matching treads & shortening barrels

[Bendersquint]

carry extras, like pouchs, cleaners, thermal wraps, and extra quick mounts. Prepare to spend lots of time on the phone - chasing down arrival date, stamps and when suppressors are due into your shop (i've had to rattle a bunch of cages weekly to keep balls rolling)

And - a good lathe to thread barrels, great for matching treads & shortening barrels

You missed the OP's point, hes not looking to sell cans, hes looking to MAKE cans.

[MetalChips]

In business they say "find a void and fill it".
What void would another suppressor manufacturer fill?

Time will tell I suppose. For now, it's largely selfish. I just want to see what I am capable of and what I might be able to bring to market.

That's not to say I don't have a few ideas though...I recognize that all aspects of the suppressor market are yet to be tapped.

[MetalChips]

carry extras, like pouchs, cleaners, thermal wraps, and extra quick mounts. Prepare to spend lots of time on the phone - chasing down arrival date, stamps and when suppressors are due into your shop (i've had to rattle a bunch of cages weekly to keep balls rolling)

And - a good lathe to thread barrels, great for matching treads & shortening barrels

You missed the OP's point, hes not looking to sell cans, hes looking to MAKE cans.

In hindsight, It would have been beneficial to name the post "Help with 07/02 process". I'll be sure to think about the naming process in more depth next time around...

[David Hineline]

Once old enough, Get a Federal EIN number if you don't for your business now, Get a state sales tax number, apply for the 07 manuf. FFL and get documentation on your local zoning, it will take around 3 months for the BATFE to process your application. Once your FFL is approved pay your registration with the Dept. of State, then when July rolls around pay either $500 or $1000/year for your SOT depending upon the revenue your business generates.

So you will be looking as $3000 to $3500 per year in licensing fees at the federal level. Figure another $3000/year in insurance. And that's why $7 worth of material and work sells for $400.00

[Historian]

Once old enough, Get a Federal EIN number if you don't for your business now, Get a state sales tax number, apply for the 07 manuf. FFL and get documentation on your local zoning, it will take around 3 months for the BATFE to process your application. Once your FFL is approved pay your registration with the Dept. of State, then when July rolls around pay either $500 or $1000/year for your SOT depending upon the revenue your business generates.

So you will be looking as $3000 to $3500 per year in licensing fees at the federal level. Figure another $3000/year in insurance. And that's why $7 worth of material and work sells for $400.00

Most effectively explained!

And excellent guidance for our aspiring, and hopefully most successful to be,
young entrepreneur.

It is the long-game planning that differentiates the winners from the runners-up.

[MetalChips]

Once old enough, Get a Federal EIN number if you don't for your business now, Get a state sales tax number, apply for the 07 manuf. FFL and get documentation on your local zoning, it will take around 3 months for the BATFE to process your application. Once your FFL is approved pay your registration with the Dept. of State, then when July rolls around pay either $500 or $1000/year for your SOT depending upon the revenue your business generates.

So you will be looking as $3000 to $3500 per year in licensing fees at the federal level. Figure another $3000/year in insurance. And that's why $7 worth of material and work sells for $400.00

As Historian stated, "Most effectively explained!". That sir, Is exactly the summary I was chasing after- Thank you.

I'm quite fond of checklists and that will convert nicely.

[Bendersquint]

Biggest thing is to make sure you have the $$$ to back it.

You can't machine off-site unless that off-site is a manufacturer as well so means you have to have your own shop.

Can't engrave offsite without a marking variance, even if you are doing the work.

It goes on and on...

Licenses and fees kill most guys especially guys that want to just do R&D.

In this industry you have to hit the ground sprinting or more often than not you will land on your face and disappear into the mist.

[MetalChips]

Biggest thing is to make sure you have the $$$ to back it.

You can't machine off-site unless that off-site is a manufacturer as well so means you have to have your own shop.

Can't engrave offsite without a marking variance, even if you are doing the work.

It goes on and on...

Licenses and fees kill most guys especially guys that want to just do R&D.

In this industry you have to hit the ground sprinting or more often than not you will land on your face and disappear into the mist.

I'm fully prepared for everything to be done onsite. I've got a 1500 sq foot shop that houses all of my current machines and equipment. It has served me well the last few years. CNC is sitting pretty in the corner too, I've also got a second CNC coming in specifically for engraving when the time comes.

I'm all too aware of the fact that It is no cheap endeavor to get into the firearm industry. I learned years ago that banks won't touch if you have anything to do with firearm. Fortunately I have been saving accordingly. It takes money to make money.

I will admit, I am no sprinter but I did run my fair share of cross-country back in the day...

[Global Armory]

Hey Metal Chips looks like we're in the same boat, I am about to hit the ground with my new business, I am also going to emphasize on the suppressor, NFA market as well, but I am just getting a 01 license for now no 07. Good luck to you!

[El Huevudo]

Are 07 FFL Holders not exempt from ITAR when in the R&D stages? It was my understanding they were...

Also, as a 07/02 in the R&D stages, what fees are you looking at other than the $150 for the 07 FFL and $500-$1000 for the SOT? Am I wrong to believe that a sole-proprietor of a business -still in R&D- doesn't need to worry about insurance at that stage considering they are not yet actually selling their silencers, rifles, or whatever product? Therefore, saving another $2-3k a year.

[Bendersquint]

Are 07 FFL Holders not exempt from ITAR when in the R&D stages? It was my understanding they were...

Also, as a 07/02 in the R&D stages, what fees are you looking at other than the $150 for the 07 FFL and $500-$1000 for the SOT? Am I wrong to believe that a sole-proprietor of a business -still in R&D- doesn't need to worry about insurance at that stage considering they are not yet actually selling their silencers, rifles, or whatever product? Therefore, saving another $2-3k a year.

If you are licensed to produce what is on the munitions list then you are required to register. You don't have to ever make anything but since you CAN then State needs to know. There are NO exemptions for R&D.

There is no Federal requirement for insurance.

[jacobstactical]

I am an FFL07/SOT and I would advise you to go on to college and get a degree in mathematics, enjoy being 20 and make a crap load of mistakes and then join the ranks. It may sound like a good idea to open business, maybe if yer selling donuts...get into this market and you are taxed like a bastard, paperwork, have no privacy what so ever, can never get a freaking speeding ticket...and you have to work within the confines of the regulatory NFA CGA space. Then sort out prototyping workflow in conjunction with production runs, attempting to keep your shop running at 85% spindle use so not to waste cash, while storing FORM3 transfers waiting approval, send in those FORM2s....paperwork, and the list goes on and on.....oh, did I mention the taxes, insurances, licenses, annual fees and paperwork??

Is it hard? yeah. Its supposed to be. Would I do it again? Heck yes! But....i also have about 23 years on you and experience to apply in form of success and failure.

Hope this helps you a bit...felt good to say it. LOL

Greg
FFL07/SOT # 9-68-XXX-XX-XX-04040

Bender and Tony,

Unfortunately I don't personally own a can of my own but I do have quite a bit of experience with then. A few friends have a few cans that I shoot every chance I get. Of course, It would be rude not to offer to take them apart and clean them also! Thus I get to see how all the magic happens.

Please don't think I just had an epiphany a few days ago and decided I wanted to go full-out on a whim. I've been running a lathe and mill since I was 14, and gunsmithing since I was 16. I've owned my own lathe and mill since I was 16, and just bought received my first CNC mill a few weeks back. By no means does this make me an expert with everything guns or a seasoned machinist, but I would like to think that I've at least got a firm grasp on the basics.

Also, I am most interested in getting my 07/02 for prototyping to start with. I certainly don't have a vision of conquering the entire suppressor market, and may have titled my post a little ambitious in that aspect. I know very well that It will be a process that will more likely than not take a few years.

Ever since I first heard and saw the internals of a .22 can a few years back I have been absolutely hooked and am sure that I need to enter the business when I'm legally of age...

[curtistactical]

As has been stated already $2250 yr. Itar, $150 07 FFL, $500 SOT, $2000 Bus. ins. Once you get all that out of the way plan on a small fortune in advertising, I have found the advertising to be the most costly part of getting a business in suppressors started. I am in no way trying to discourage you I just want you to be prepared for whats ahead. I started building suppressors about three years ago, in the beginning they were ok and sold locally I just wanted them to go bigger. I spent a lot of long nights and weekends on R&D to get to the products I have now which will equal or beat anything you want to compare them to yet I still have a long way to go with getting my name out across the country. I am looking at spending like crazy on advertising this coming year, I have some new products in the works that no one is currently making which hopefully will get a niche going for me. If you plan on going head to head with the big name guys on their standard suppressors you have a long road ahead of you, if you can come up with something new and different that nobody else is doing you have a better chance of getting started. Hope some of this helps, keep your head up and don't get discouraged and you have a chance.

[El Huevudo]

Can someone please explain paragraph (b)4 of section 122.1 on the following link? I guess I'm not understanding correctly...

http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SI ... 9&rgn=div5