Industry Accuracy Testing Is Non Existent!

[doubloon]

time and $$...

Indian name, Longpost Nocontent.

[curtistactical]

As a manufacturer the only way I will guarantee accuracy is 1) we build the rifle and suppressor or 2) the customer sends us his rifle and we tailor a suppressor to his gun and accuracy test it. Under these two conditions I would have no problem putting a personal accuracy guarantee on one of our suppressors to either maintain group size or shrink it.
Joe

[Kramer]

Either the OP has a LOT to learn or he is a T-bac shill.

[Bendersquint]

As a manufacturer the only way I will guarantee accuracy is 1) we build the rifle and suppressor or 2) the customer sends us his rifle and we tailor a suppressor to his gun and accuracy test it. Under these two conditions I would have no problem putting a personal accuracy guarantee on one of our suppressors to either maintain group size or shrink it.
Joe

Same here.

[quiettime]

same post on another forum

Different name, same M.O, post count 1

[Luv2Shoot]

As a manufacturer the only way I will guarantee accuracy is 1) we build the rifle and suppressor or 2) the customer sends us his rifle and we tailor a suppressor to his gun and accuracy test it. Under these two conditions I would have no problem putting a personal accuracy guarantee on one of our suppressors to either maintain group size or shrink it.
Joe

Well there you go, based on what you say, why would I want to consider buying one of your suppressors or recommending one of your suppressors to a customer?

If you are confident that your suppressors, with the right set up, will do what you say , then why don't you do it and show the test results and state what your set up was and loads were used for the testing? Then at least someone might have some idea that what you claim your suppressors can do is true and they can see the results for themselves. In my OP, I never said I wanted to see an "accuracy guarantee", just some accuracy testing with the results put forward in a public manner (i.e. on a website, or a YouTube video, etc.).

Not busting on you here, but your website and marketing info provide nothing to indicate your suppressors have any capacity to maintain a rifle's accuracy and not adversely affect it. Also, the current YouTube videos (at least the ones I have seen) showing Curtis Tactical suppressors just show people shooting them in a blaster set up (same as just about everyone else in the marketplace does with nothing more).

Hey, if most of the people on this thread are happy doing the "buy it then try it" thing and then blasting away with what they bought, that's great - - do your thing and have fun!

[doubloon]

...
Hey, if most of the people on this thread are happy doing the "buy it then try it" thing and then blasting away with what they bought, that's great - - do your thing and have fun!

If you think it's so easy why don't you put your expertise into action and make something?

[Joshua@CapitolArmory]

Echoing what a lot of people have said, it's way... way to many variables to test for a client base that's (in the grand scheme of things) non existent.

I see, incredibly often, guys talking about rifle accuracy and they are using 3-5 MOA ammo. I have a 7.5" Blackout with a Saker 762 that is a legitimate sub MOA gun. Generally groups are .5-1 MOA, averaging in the middle somewhere. It took a lot of time (and money) getting a perfect hand load.

Honestly, how many guys are ringing 4-5" steel at 1000-- repeatedly. There are really not too many going that hard into precision shooting.

We've got clients that are precision shooters. I don't mean "I can hit 1000" but rather, I'm under an inch at 500 or reaching out to a mile. Serious, serious guys about accuracy. I have never heard them complain at all about a suppressor doing something-- they'll go on about every other aspect but I never hear it on a suppressor.

There are literally three people who have brought up accuracy issues with a suppressor. One that "doesn't think the suppressor is accurate" but is not a precision shooter. As far as I can tell, it's a "dreams are bigger than reality" issue. We honestly don't know what's going on with it, but the cans back at the company for evaluation. (Yes, a company that prides itself on accuracy.) Another guy put a can on, and his groups opened way up. Then took it off, same situation. Looks like he distorted the crown, and it wasn't necessarily a suppressor issue but most likely an out of spec part that damaged the barrel. The third, is a good client who has a pistol can on a subgun that kills his accuracy. So out of everything, one unknown, one unrelated to the can, and one with what I'm almost positive is a can with some sort of serious issue. Hardly an issue really--- and again, none are serious precision shooters.

[silencer_kid]

I see, incredibly often, guys talking about rifle accuracy and they are using 3-5 MOA ammo.

kinda irrelevant, no? 5MOA w/o can, so then is it 5.5MOA or 4.5MOA w/ can ??
its only the diff that is important.

Well there you go, based on what you say, why would I want to consider buying one of your suppressors or recommending one of your suppressors to a customer?

If you are confident that your suppressors, with the right set up, will do what you say , then why don't you do it and show the test results and state what your set up was and loads were used for the testing? Then at least someone might have some idea that what you claim your suppressors can do is true and they can see the results for themselves. In my OP, I never said I wanted to see an "accuracy guarantee", just some accuracy testing with the results put forward in a public manner (i.e. on a website, or a YouTube video, etc.).

because sometimes the talk runs rampant w/ little concrete data to back the claims. happens all the time, not just with some folks here who have 20k hrs of can building time, etc.

[Tony M.]

because sometimes the talk runs rampant w/ little concrete data to back the claims.

He says, with no sense of irony.

[curtistactical]

As a manufacturer the only way I will guarantee accuracy is 1) we build the rifle and suppressor or 2) the customer sends us his rifle and we tailor a suppressor to his gun and accuracy test it. Under these two conditions I would have no problem putting a personal accuracy guarantee on one of our suppressors to either maintain group size or shrink it.
Joe

Well there you go, based on what you say, why would I want to consider buying one of your suppressors or recommending one of your suppressors to a customer?

If you are confident that your suppressors, with the right set up, will do what you say , then why don't you do it and show the test results and state what your set up was and loads were used for the testing? Then at least someone might have some idea that what you claim your suppressors can do is true and they can see the results for themselves. In my OP, I never said I wanted to see an "accuracy guarantee", just some accuracy testing with the results put forward in a public manner (i.e. on a website, or a YouTube video, etc.).

Not busting on you here, but your website and marketing info provide nothing to indicate your suppressors have any capacity to maintain a rifle's accuracy and not adversely affect it. Also, the current YouTube videos (at least the ones I have seen) showing Curtis Tactical suppressors just show people shooting them in a blaster set up (same as just about everyone else in the marketplace does with nothing more).

Hey, if most of the people on this thread are happy doing the "buy it then try it" thing and then blasting away with what they bought, that's great - - do your thing and have fun!

Well for a short sweet answer and really trying to not be a dick, some picky know everything dude will end up having his barrel threaded by some less than able person then screw one of our suppressors on and blame it on the suppressor. If you are that worried about accuracy you would have no problem sending your rifle to us so we can test the suppressor with the actual gun it will go on. This is the same reason we do not warranty baffle strikes, if you can burn one of our baffles out we will replace it no questions ask but if you put an extra hole in it because your set up was bad its on you. As for the videos, I am more interested in building the best suppressors on the market and being a small shop with some real good competition out there most of my time is put into design and building not on marketing. If I see the need arise for accuracy testing in the future we may consider it but by reading this thread there is only one guy out there who is worried about it.
Joe

[silencer_kid]

He says, with no sense of irony.

irony it is, to present the irony card while at the same time attempting to exempt all but one person.

[Tony M.]

He says, with no sense of irony.

irony it is, to present the irony card while at the same time attempting to exempt all but one person.

I swear, if we could bottle the stupid, we could supply DC for at least a few months.

[TROOPER]

He says, with no sense of irony.

irony it is, to present the irony card while at the same time attempting to exempt all but one person.

I swear, if we could bottle the stupid, we could supply DC for at least a few months.

He's just so sure he's right. Can't do anything with that.

[whiterussian1974]

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2015/12/1 ... uppressor/
This link shows what Mil/LE have found and what they prefer to use for Practical Accuracy.
One can also simply ask Army/Marine Snipers what their findings have been. Better w or wo suppressor.

I've always done better w.

[whiterussian1974]

irony it is, to present the irony card while at the same time attempting to exempt all but one person.

I swear, if we could bottle the stupid, we could supply DC for at least a few months.

He's just so sure he's right. Can't do anything with that.

Kids shouldn't eat lead paint flakes.
Or work for too long in Gov't.
Either way, swimming in filth eventually takes its toll.

[silencer_kid]

I swear, if we could bottle the stupid, we could supply DC for at least a few months.

thank goodness you cant fit into a bottle....
sorry, just had to, you set it up just right.....

[Tony M.]

I swear, if we could bottle the stupid, we could supply DC for at least a few months.

thank goodness you cant fit into a bottle....
sorry, just had to, you set it up just right.....

Can we start calling him "Skippy the Squid?"

[doubloon]

He seems a lot like Maser.

[whiterussian1974]

I swear, if we could bottle the stupid, we could supply DC for at least a few months.

thank goodness you cant fit into a bottle....

Squib hard at work Trolling.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Squib_load "may result in another round being fired directly into the rear of the previous round, resulting in a catastrophic failure of (the weapon's structural) integrity."

[Tuukka]

When we are updating an older suppressor model/family or introducing a new one, accuracy and point of impact shift testing is routine.

This is to determine the accuracy and point of impact swift with quality weapons with properly threaded barrels, quality ammunition etc.

Most often this correlates well in the real world, it is not often that we receive complaints of accuracy issues.

I have more knowledge and experience of course in testing different European suppressor brands than U.S. made ones, but I can safely say that a more common result when installing a quality suppressor on a properly threaded barrel is improvement in accuracy, not the other way around.

In many of the cases where we have examined the reasons for accuracy issues, they have been mostly issues in threading, not the suppressor quality.

Best Regards!

Tuukka Jokinen
Ase Utra sound suppressors

[silencer_kid]

This is to determine the accuracy and point of impact swift with quality weapons with properly threaded barrels, quality ammunition etc.


Tuukka Jokinen
Ase Utra sound suppressors

so in general, a quality weapon with proper threads is what exactly? do you have a spec to classify this? do all COTS arms from savage, remington, ruger, etc, fall into this category? they are COTS items. if you are suggesting that COTS does not carry quality w/ proper threading then cans would be have to be non-COTS.

the Q is, COTS cans on COTS rifles, does the rifle maintain accuracy? will it go from .5MOA to 1MOA or maintain .5MOA or better, etc.

if the accuracy gets worse then that would warrant a little checking of the rifle muzzle end to see if it's up the spec (good thread, concentric, proper shoulder, etc etc). if the muzzle end checks out ok then you can say the can is the issue.

wow, i guess you found yourself a bottle, but how do you get in it? how much does UPS charge to deliver that to your doorstep?

[quiettime]

if you are suggesting that COTS does not carry quality w/ proper threading then cans would be have to be non-COTS.

That doesn't follow. "COTS" is not a spec, it is a category under which falls a wide variety of different things, which is why 3 pages ago I said an accuracy guarantee or "standard" is not feasible.

[Tony M.]

if you are suggesting that COTS does not carry quality w/ proper threading then cans would be have to be non-COTS.

That doesn't follow. "COTS" is not a spec, it is a category under which falls a wide variety of different things, which is why 3 pages ago I said an accuracy guarantee or "standard" is not feasible.

Skippy the Squid doesn't care about reality or experience, he has a theory, and that's all that matters to him, he'll argue with anyone who disagrees.

[silencer_kid]

if you are suggesting that COTS does not carry quality w/ proper threading then cans would be have to be non-COTS.

That doesn't follow. "COTS" is not a spec, it is a category under which falls a wide variety of different things, which is why 3 pages ago I said an accuracy guarantee or "standard" is not feasible.

ok, so re-phrase the OP's Q like this

"lets take 50 rifles made by a reputable arms makers and verify their spec to the spec that quiettime has, then if that rifle meets that spec then do a accuracy test, then screw on 20 different commercial cans, get accuracy, publish results".

what you'll end up with is a nice chart that shows you what cans (designs) work better with what COTS rifles, etc. if i were a commercial can maker, i would own 1 of every item the competition makes, then i would tweak my design to be better than the rest so that my design yields better results across bigger % of COTS rifles, then i would claim my can "has better accuracy".

and the spec you wish to follow is?

my assumption is that savage,ruger,etc,etc already has good specs on their COTS items. not sure why this is hard to follow.