I do not. This is a disturbing video.

http://www.thefederalistpapers.org/us/s ... -in-oregon

Pretty damning evidence IMHO.

If this was a Poll, I'd expect 7No/3Yes.
The real ? is: Federal/State/Local. Which if any do we trust?
Recent News shows that even Local Water Dept can't be trusted. Let alone Armed Execution Squads. (Einsatzgruppen)
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Thank you for a good Thread. I LOVE discussion. Wish that there were more posters. But Quality (JohnDoe3, Trooper, you, and even Poiki) may be better than Quantity.
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I've benn watching Forensic Files reruns. LOTS of Police and Prosecutorial Misconduct. Planting/Destoying/Concealing evidence. Trial Judges disallowing exculpitory evidence and testimony. Even cops being set up for Murder and serving 17yrs; b/f a killer's DNA enters CODIS after he strikes again. When DNA testing was available for 12 of those 17yrs to prove the Convicted's Innocence.

Philip K Dick was blissfully naive in his distopian visions of the future.
Things are even worse than HE could imagine. At least there isn't LSD in the water. OK, bad example. There ARE some municipalities that recycle drinking water, and Rx meds that get flushed enter the water supply.

As President Reagan said in Iceland:

Doveryai, no proveryai [trust, but verify]

To me it depends on what you mean by trust, since as whiterussian said, it is a large question encompassing a huge playing field.

I just finished doing my Federal and State taxes on Thursday; I trust the IRS to process it and issue me a refund to my account in a timely manner; and likewise, I trust the Colorado government to faithfully process my return and issue me a refund from them to my account.

Does that mean I trust the IRS in all things? No, I had the experience of them auditing me 3 years in a row until I complained the 3rd year that by law they could not audit me the 3rd year because in the previous 2 years they had found nothing wrong on my return during the audits. Besides, I saw the head of the IRS blatantly lie to Congress at a hearing, and Lois Lerner carrying out a blatant political agenda at the IRS with direction of the White House.

Did I trust the local Sheriff to issue me a concealed carry permit? yes, and I trust that his deputies will do a good job (most of the time). The local police department, not so much.

Do I trust the Colorado Guv and legislature to always do the right thing? Not a chance. The Dems in government are always trying to pull a fast one on the public.

Do I trust the Federal Congress? Not in any way, except that I have some trust that Senators Rand Paul, Mike Lee and Ted Cruz will likely take positions I agree with (most of the time).

Look at one issue, which is that 75-80% of the people want labeling of food for GMO content. Even so, congresscritters from both parties are conspiring to pass the Dark Act, to prevent States from passing requirements for food to have labels informing whether there is GMO in it. Why? because members of both parties get big donations from manufacturers. Therefore, it is direct evidence that Congress doesn't care about the people and their wishes, being motivated by money more than duty.

And to the heart of the matter concerning the FBI, do I trust the Feds with badges? No, but I also realize that many are good people who will do the right thing. However, there is too much evidence of the Feds rolling over local police and Sheriffs to steamroll an agenda from Washington and do distasteful things (re: Edward Snowdon revelations).

If I trusted the Feds and they actually did the right thing, then Hillary would already be under indictment and wearing an orange jumpsuit.

JohnDoe3: Excellent reply. I agree w your position en toto.

Though, in CA they didn't issue refunds when the State was in Bankruptcy. Eventually issued, but NOT in timely manner.

I often wonder if IRS will "Nationalize" IRAs b/c Interest Payments on National Debt is the 3rd largest Gov't Program. Greece and Cyprus anyone?

We need another Joe McCarthy to call a out the communists and put away this PC garbage.I fear if we don't regain some form of unity we will have a civil war on our hands.I have no faith in the government to do the right thing any more.Can you have trust without faith.?

Hamiltonians versus Jeffersonians

(ever more bigger Federal government and control with a dash of tyranny) versus (smaller government, individual rights and States rights)

I perceive Baker is a Jeffersonian maybe even leaning a little towards Propertarian

johndoe3 wrote:I perceive Baker is a Jeffersonian maybe even leaning a little towards Propertarian

As am I. And maybe a little https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voluntary ... th_century w/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-proprietorship.

Devoid of Engineered Consent.

I've had a few beers tonight, so that is my caveat.

I've seen a lot of videos in my day, but this one really got to me. I was shocked by it. Seriously disturbed.
As for labels, labels these days are so f***ing screwed up. The MSM and PTB have us at each others throats in order to keep us distracted from the things that really are at issue. I used to consider myself an extreme right wing conservative but right wing conservatives decry me for those whom I support. Now I just say "F*** it" and hope against the odds that at least some states can regain control and rebuild this once great republic.

Do I trust my local sheriff's department? Yes. There might be a good ole boy network but these typically are decent folk.
State? Still political. They'll do as commanded.
Federal? IMHO FBI means "Fire Bullets Immediately". I don't trust these POS as far as I can throw them.

Ruby Ridge? Waco? Oregon?

Alas... Once again I am happy that I am closer to tomb than womb. I just hope that we leave a better world for our progeny than we received but I doubt that it will happen.

For now, I'll go watch some Tour Divide videos. Less than 3 months until I fly to Canada and start pedaling for 100's of miles a day for days on end. Sometimes we have to do what we have to do to retain a semblance of sanity.

I have some Youtube links on www.bakerjw.org that are great to watch if interested.

Peace out guys.

bakerjw wrote:
Do I trust my local sheriff's department? Yes. There might be a good ole boy network but these typically are decent folk.

How do you know this? How have you vetted all of their personnel?

State? Still political. They'll do as commanded.

I promise, the only difference between your "good ole boy network" and the staties is a uniform.

Federal? IMHO FBI means "Fire Bullets Immediately". I don't trust these POS as far as I can throw them.

Gee, another group who never get prosecuted for their criminal acts.

It doesn't matter if they are Luchesi, Gambino, Gotti, whatever... They are all mafia. They will murder you and your family at the drop of a hat. They cover for each other no matter what. You better come to grips with that.

--

0101silent wrote:To those in Law Enforcement. Was it a justified police stop? Was this a justified shooting? Why or why not? What would you have wrote on your report?
Note that I'm not asking if the shooting was right or wrong or what could have been done different.

I won't give you a straight answer. I CAN say how such things are typically reported.

Justified stop? Yes. They should have baricaded road and used spike strips instead of firing upon vehicle.

Justified shooting? Sorta, kinda, maybe. The Law isn't clear-cut. It's all about Reasonable Expectations, and Points of View.

Could Staties hyped up on adrenaline have been suffering from "mission focus" and "results oriented bias?" Sure. This led to misidentification and miscommonication in CIC aboard the Cruiser Vencennes CG-49 that led to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655.

What in my Report? The facts as I observed them w/o commentary.

That driver appeared agitated and unstable, requesting to be shot. He already had penetrated 1st roadblock and Command worried that if they fled scene, they posed continued Deadly threat to Public. He exitted vehicle w/o permission and vehicle occupants refused to put hands outside of vehicle so that we could safely approach vehicle and secure scene.

That when he exitted I didn't have clear view of his side of vehicle and continued observing passenger side for movement.

Basically CYA mode. But the above is assuming facts not in evidence. Just as I imagine would happen based upon my training and experience.

(It's been a couple days since I viewed the vid. and weeks since I saw the drone perspective from behind and above. So my recall of events has already faded and this helps explain why Ofr Reports sometimes don't match up w actual events. Of course bias, CYA, and narrowed field of focus, along w warped perception all contribute as well.)

I'm amazed that the cellphones didn't get "misplaced or destroyed" during the "confusion" of the event. It's telling that the Sheriff leaked the vid. The FBI only signed on after the leak to calm Public Fear.

Howdy,

I work for the Federal Gov't ( I'm currently tracking several members [ whiterussian, bakerjw, Capt. Link, etc.] w/ spy satellites.) and a last week I was riding with another Gov't employee that I had just met and he stated that he did NOT trust the Gov't.

Me: "Really?"

Joe "Nope"

Me "You're 45yo, spent 21 years in the Air Force and have worked for ABC agency for over 6 years (do the math ) but you don't trust the Gov't?"

Joe "Nope!"

Me "Ok. Did you watch "Dancing with Stars" last night?"

Joe "Nope. Don't own a TV."

Paul

Stengun: You're tracking me thru my cellphone, aren't you?

Darn!
Knew I shouldn't have done that Firmware update.
It has a patch that defeats foil hats.
Doesn't it?

Howdy,

whiterussian1974 wrote:Stengun: You're tracking me thru my cellphone, aren't you?

Darn!
Knew I shouldn't have done that Firmware update.
It has a patch that defeats foil hats.
Doesn't it?

It's Top Secret!! I could tell you but then........well, you know the rest.

Paul

stengun wrote:

whiterussian1974 wrote:Stengun: You're tracking me thru my cellphone, aren't you?

Darn!
Knew I shouldn't have done that Firmware update.
It has a patch that defeats foil hats.
Doesn't it?

It's Top Secret!! I could tell you but then........well, you know the rest.

Paul

No.
That part has been lobotomized.
So I can't recall why you can't tell me.

Howdy,

What were we talking about?

I was part of a mind control experiment for the CIA using LSD so my short term memory is..........

Wait, what were we talking about?

Paul

Sten:

I hope that I have these in the right order.

Howdy,

Now that's funny!

All kidding aside, I work for the FAA as an Engineering Technician.

So, no spy satellites.

Paul

P.S. I don't even get to carry a gun anymore but I do have a Gov't issued 2013 Chevy 2500HD pickup.

Nope.

Maser wrote:Nope.

Such a verbose and thoughtfully complex monograph. Yet succinct as well. Great job Maser.

I'd normally expect a far more demonstrative and detailed answer. But somehow, you managed it all in a single word.

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0101silent wrote:"I fear if we don't regain some form of unity we will have a civil war on our hands."
You called it. It's not all out Civil War but there's recently been a few small battles.

Interesting how the BLM and State Troopers killing Ranchers in a Cold-blooded Execution didn't rate even a blip in the News. No Protests. No nothing.

Yet a Felon attacks a cop and beats him nearly to death trying to steal his pistol, and it's wall to wall coverage and the Pres and DoJ need to step in and punish the cops.

Such a world we live in.

Are your SHTF supplies ready? 2k rds of ammo per device and a 3mo minimum of rations/meds.

Some Churches suggest 6mo of Supplies. Revelation says 3.5yrs of Tribulation. No one will buy or sell w/o the Mark.

--

0101silent wrote:...Use the power of the mirror. If you smile they smile, a joke and a laugh are returned, a respectful nod is returned. It's programed into people and almost uncontrollable.

"Be the Change that you want to see in the World."

Definitely Wise words.

And yes. Professional Presence is the only Force that's usually required when dealing w Sane People.
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W/o getting into the Weeds of what requires Force, the Mantra drilled into us was "Abuse begins when Resistance ends." That's still 100% True. Most Civs need to learn basic Civil and Criminal Law in School. Then they would understand what's expected of them. Just like Swimming or Driving Lessons. Certain behaviors are necessary for smooth Police Interaction.

We certainly aren't trying to create problems for ourselves. But we often have a Stack of Calls backed up and we're trying to get to the next Contact. So we just want to hurry through whatever is required at the Moment. People who comply generally get Warnings or minor Tickets instead of 'The Book' and a full Felony Stop.

I'm not going to Pat or Vehicle Search unless I get Strong Indicators that I need to.

If people tell us that they have minor Warrants, many Ofrs won't even run them thru a Radio Check. Just Deescalate, deal w the Situation, and move to the next Contact.

0101silent wrote:The government employs trainable, intelligent and/or educated, people that chose to work for government because they want to serve the public and make their community or nation a better place. There are a few exceptions and people change but almost all government policies and personnel have good intent.

I say If you see an officer using excessive force stop then make him stop. Use peer pressure and the union, or the gun, badge, and prosecutor.

These are blissfully Naive Statements.

Trainable to be Cogs in the Machine. Never the "Peg that Stands Up and therefore needs beat down."

Yes we want to improve our Community. But we learn of the sick Underbelly that is Gov't Policy. viewtopic.php?f=75&t=136990 A very important Read on how the System actually processes Citizens as Cattle through the load chute into the Slaughter House.

"Make him stop." "Gun, Badge, Prosecutor." I'm Alice stepping through the Looking Glass. This would be suicidal.

About 14yrs ago 2 HPD Kidnapped, Raped and held for Ransom a fellow Ofr.
About 12yrs ago 1 Deputy shot another in the back of the head during a Pursuit of a 3rd Party. No charges filed. The Deceased was assisting and had a wife and 3 kids. He properly IDd himself, was in a Uniform with "POLICE" written across it, and was shot in the back of the head. Hardly a bodily position that demonstrates threat. And he never raised his pistol. It was holstered. And both Deputies knew each other. So little chance of 'not recognizing due to Fog-of-War."
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas ... 552714.php

http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Autopsy-Deputy-s-shots-hit-officer-from-behind-1949463.php wrote:Autopsy: Deputy's shots hit officer from behind
All 4 shots hit deputy from behind, report says
Witness tells police the victim wasn't warned

A witness also has told police that, contrary to deputies' account of the incident, Pickens was not warned before the deputy opened fire.

Pickens was hit once in the back of the head, twice in the back and once in the back of his right thigh, Radelat concluded.

"I didn't see anything on his front, which must have been away from the shooter," Radelat said Tuesday. "It would be an abrogation of natural phenomena for (the shots) to have come from anywhere other than the back."

Kinda hard to be facing a Deputy with your gun pointed toward him, while simultaneously shot 4 times in the back and head while your sidearm is holstered and you're wearing a Security Uniform.

"Plain Clothes" in this story means not the Standard Constables' Uniform. When working "off duty" we must get Agency permission to wear the Uniform. But once the Police ID is visible outside of his shirt, that's Proper ID. Kind of tough to show your Police Photo ID when you're shot in the back of the head.

Witnesses also Testified that he Announced himself as a Deputy working Security. Hence his Security Uniform. He was responding to the vehicle crash on his Property. In complete accord with TX Property Code and all applicable Police and Security Statutes.

"At no point did I ever see the security officer expose his weapon, or threaten the deputies in any way," Hubbard said in his statement to HPD.

"Nor did I ever hear the deputy doing the shooting, or other deputies, say 'Stop, police' or 'Freeze,' " he added. "They just gunned down this officer."

Sheriff's officials maintained Tuesday that Jones shouted warnings to Pickens.

Hubbard also noted that Pickens was wearing a black T-shirt with the word "POLICE" printed across the front.

It was the Arriving Deputy who was responsible to ID himself. NOT the Deputy already On Scene.

And we never unholster during a foot chase. Too many problems. We only unholster when in a Shooting Position and prepared to Engage.