How much ammo to have at all times

flip · Post by **flip** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:21 am

Been thinking pretty hard about what is happening in CA where they are basically rationing ammo. I have bought all the reloading supplies to do what I have .223, 308, 9mm and 45acp. What would be a good supply, taking into consideration I don't have unlimited funds, to have in all these calibers. Basically what I will be doing is buying the components and reloading. Give me some good general #s and yes I know mileage will vary from person to person.

ROFuher · Post by **ROFuher** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:31 am

1000 pieces of brass for a bolt action should last a lifetime, and maybe several.

smcharchan · Post by **smcharchan** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:38 am

Flip, are you talking a no-kidding lifetime supply?

I would consider the following for each caliber:

-How many rounds per year do you shoot now?
-How many rounds would you like to shoot per year given the chance?
-(applicable for me, at least) How many rounds would you need for you, your friends/family, and for barter if the SHTF?
-How many rounds would you like to have on hand if there is a ban to sell and/or trade for other goods?
-Do you want to be able to pass rounds on to your kids someday?

Answering these questions should help you come to an answer.

Remember that they don't all have to be loaded!

Ramius · Post by **Ramius** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:35 am

A lot of people would ask this type of Q to which I say: It is not something the average person can go out and "buy."

You have to plan and accummulate over time.

I've always bought primers in lots of 25k + 32 lbs of powder (one hazmat charge). Bullets we buy by pallets.

With a Dillon 650 & 550:

I load 223 in batches of 5 - 10k.
308 in batches of 3-5k
9 & 45 in 5000-10k lots each.

That's not lifetime supply, that's what will last about a year.

flip · Post by **flip** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:40 am

smcharchan wrote:Flip, are you talking a no-kidding lifetime supply?

I would consider the following for each caliber:

-How many rounds per year do you shoot now?
-How many rounds would you like to shoot per year given the chance?
-(applicable for me, at least) How many rounds would you need for you, your friends/family, and for barter if the SHTF?
-How many rounds would you like to have on hand if there is a ban to sell and/or trade for other goods?
-Do you want to be able to pass rounds on to your kids someday?

Answering these questions should help you come to an answer.

Remember that they don't all have to be loaded!

Not really a lifetime supply but if I want plinking fodder I'll go to the store and buy it. I am looking for a hedge against shortage and just in case SHTF and yes enough to keep the family well stocked. For example since I got back into shooting again (started getting guns at 18 and sold almost all off by 24 due to other intersts) I probably shot between 200-300 rounds total between 24 and about 2 years ago. The kids by themselves in the last few months have easily gone through 2 .22 value packs and 1 remmington bulk pack, 100 308 and 200 .223 and I only have them every other weekend.
The questiones you pose above are valid and all I can say is I don't know to most of them. I would like to go out once a week and knock off a couple hundred rounds in various calibers but most of my concern at this point is security and the what if's. I have one of those fish or cut bait problems right now. Do I drop $375 and buy 5 80% ar lowers and finish them? Do I take that $$ and buy ammo or more reloading supplies? I want a SBR so bad I can taste it but of course funding for all of these projects is limited. Realistically I don't HAVE to buy anything right now but I keep hearing this little voice in my head say "you need more ammo stupid". If I had to get into a gun battle right now I could probably sustain fire for all of 5 minutes with the amount of ammo I have now. So, is a rat hole of 1000 rounds of each a good start or is my thinking small time.

flip · Post by **flip** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:49 am

Ramius wrote:A lot of people would ask this type of Q to which I say: It is not something the average person can go out and "buy."

You have to plan and accummulate over time.

I've always bought primers in lots of 25k + 32 lbs of powder (one hazmat charge). Bullets we buy by pallets.

With a Dillon 650 & 550:

I load 223 in batches of 5 - 10k.
308 in batches of 3-5k
9 & 45 in 5000-10k lots each.

That's not lifetime supply, that's what will last about a year.

Holy s--t! What I don't like is the volatility of ammunition supply and these huge price fluctuations, yes I am all for people making money but I don't want to fund impulse/fear buying. Primers right now are hard to come by, powder the same way and if you do find it you pay dearly. I have passed on a lot of primers and finally found some locally. Shooting is not my primary interest nor do I have ample amounts of time or disposable $$ to give it fair time. I am worried one morning I am going to wake up and see some dumb s--t on the news about a ban on ammo, guns, what have you and I am going to be caught with my pants down. Don't like that feeling.

civil82 · Post by **civil82** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 12:34 pm

I would like to put in my .02, and say that in a true SHTF situation, you won't need more than you can carry. Unless of course, if you live somewhere that you can post up without fear of being over run or robbed.
I don't know who here has done it, but carrying more that 800 rounds of 5.56 plus the weapon, food, water and minimal clothing packed under it makes for a long hike.
Do not hesitate to buy or load whatever you can afford for recreational purposes though.

flip · Post by **flip** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:00 pm

If SHTF I am in a local that I can defend, have a lot of flat open ground around me and a limitless food and water supply. Probably defend where I am with what I have stockpiled.

bakerjw · Post by **bakerjw** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:28 pm

Unfortunately I don't shoot as much as I would like to these days. Although the cost of replacing ammunition is coming down, its availability is still real hit and miss. Reloading stuff is the same way. Wideners has been short on reloading supplies for quite a while now. That said a couple of thousand rounds of .223/5.56 is always good to have around. I also have a lot of 9mm brass but again components are in short supply so it will remain brass for now.

45 ACP is a mixed bag. I own one and have a couple of hundred rounds laying around for it but my go to handgun shoots 40S&W. If I pick up another handgun it will also be in 40S&W. I have close to a thousand rounds laying around with enough reloading supplies to add to that very easily. Earlier this year the ICE branch of the Dept of Homeland Security contracted with Winchester to supply up to 200 million rounds of 40 S&W over the next 5 years. Why do they need that much? I don't know but if it is for the civilian defense force then I want to make sure that I can use their supplies easily enough.

poizzin · Post by **poizzin** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:32 pm

I rarely shoot like I used to. But I still get in 100rds per week. So just for normal shooting I would need 5200+ rounds per year for the next 40 years to be safe.

flip · Post by **flip** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:43 pm

poizzin wrote:I rarely shoot like I used to. But I still get in 100rds per week. So just for normal shooting I would need 5200+ rounds per year for the next 40 years to be safe.

Is this a mixed bag of different calibers or one specifically?

Twinsen · Post by **Twinsen** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 1:43 pm

I like components for 1,000 at all times. So I can keep 500 rounds loaded at all times. Although, that was the idea back when you could actually buy things.

kalikraven · Post by **kalikraven** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 2:35 pm

A quote from a member on grogs 40mm board.

The only time you can have too much ammo is when your on fire or trying to swim.

I must have about 10k 22LR rounds and I'm working on more of my other rounds.

smcharchan · Post by **smcharchan** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:02 pm

Since we are talking about long term storage of ammo I'll take a minute to mention that it shouldn't all be stored in once place.

Think about where you will be or where you might end up if it gets nasty or if there is a ban/confiscation of ammo. Think about who else you might want to have some of that ammo and what guns they have or you want to leave with them.

I love hoarding supplies as much as the next guy, but something as simple as a house fire could decimate your stash if it is all stored in one place.

kalikraven · Post by **kalikraven** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:04 pm

Ok so then maybe i need to get some 6" PVC pipe...

smcharchan · Post by **smcharchan** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 4:37 pm

kalikraven wrote:Ok so then maybe i need to get some 6" PVC pipe...

Maybe?

Certainly.

kalikraven · Post by **kalikraven** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:02 pm

I'll add it to my shopping list for the next time I go to Lowes.

smcharchan · Post by **smcharchan** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:18 pm

kalikraven wrote:I'll add it to my shopping list for the next time I go to Lowes.

Good man!

smcharchan · Post by **smcharchan** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 5:33 pm

Flip, I want to help you here.

You mentioned that you have other preparedness related items you would like to purchase in addition to ammo, but that you are limited in income (as we all are).

To ensure that I'm not acting on emotion when I tackle this stuff I attack this problem in a manner similar to how I tackle risk in my day job.

There are two simple factors that can be used to tackle risk: probability and severity.

List out your concerns, such as ammo bans, shtf, gun bans, food shortages, whatever. Assign a probability rating and a severity rating of 1 to 10 to each them. Multiply probability rating times severity rating to get a risk rating for each of your concerns. Sum them up, and for each one divide its risk rating by the sum of all the risk ratings to determine how much of your hard earned cash you want to throw at each concern.

It's a quick "back of the napkin" thing that you can do to really evaluate how much of your resources you should devote to each concern.

Doing so will help you reached a balanced solution rather than doing impulse buys based on emotion. I use a similar method for helping me decide on lots of life's decisions, such as supplies, investments, and insurance.

(Reading what I just wrote I finally realize how strange I am.)

st33ve0 · Post by **st33ve0** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 7:55 pm

For the PVC pipe would it be better to draw a vacuum, leave it with 1 atm of normal air, or fill it with CO2 or Argon [from a welder]? I'm sure the argon approach is best for lowers and such, but I'm not sure on ammo.

Artful · Post by **Artful** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:08 pm

st33ve0 wrote:For the PVC pipe would it be better to draw a vacuum, leave it with 1 atm of normal air, or fill it with CO2 or Argon [from a welder]? I'm sure the argon approach is best for lowers and such, but I'm not sure on ammo.

Why not just look for it in the original spam cans

or recycle

throw in a silica desicant in with it. (I recycle the one's that come in the pill bottles - a slow bake and seal in a siplock bag and pop in an ammo can and voila')

Ramius · Post by **Ramius** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 9:42 pm

Figure out how much $$ you can spend and budget accordingly.

Buy what you need and always have a few hundred rounds on hand. If you can swing it load up on primers. Depending on where you live there will be local codes regulating storage of primers and powder so keep an eye out for THAT.

As for SHTF, this ain't the movies and you won't be fending off hoards of zombies. Even in shitholes around the world my load out is rarely over 300 rounds -- I rarely carry it all on my person.

Many of my friends have gotten through really hairy situations without firing a single shot. Your single best strategy is never being noticed in the first place! Even if it is a free fire zone you should not start shooting if you even THINK you may not have enough ammo in the first place.

Might not be what you want to hear but a lot of things are overrated.

smcharchan · Post by **smcharchan** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 10:25 pm

Ramius wrote: Even in shitholes around the world my load out is rarely over 300 rounds -- I rarely carry it all on my person.

Your load out was for one mission, not a lifetime. (Have you been tracking the economy and social unrest going on back here?)

Further, the OP was also concerned about ammo bans, which could last his lifetime and that of his children. Can you blame him for wanting to stock up?

Between your two posts on this thread you've done an outstanding job of contributing to the discussion by bragging about how many reloads you shoot every year, comparing someone's concerns about preparing for bad times in the USA with your combat experience abroad, and telling us what we "don't want to hear".

Your two posts even conflict with one another â€“ I can't tell if you are suggesting (1st post) he needs to reload as much as you or (2nd post) that he doesnâ€™t need a lot of ammo b/c he is neither in combat like you nor is he fighting off zombies.

I went back and looked at quite a few of your other posts before typing this. You come across as knowledgeable and helpful everywhere else. Perhaps you could throttle it back a little and try to use that knowledge to help the OP out here. No one is talking about zombies; rather, we are talking about preparing for a government ban on ammo.

doubloon · Post by **doubloon** » Thu Oct 15, 2009 11:16 pm

I hear a rumor you're limited to 50 rounds in Commiefornia now.

Ramius · Post by **Ramius** » Fri Oct 16, 2009 12:38 am

SC, my intention was not to brag or come across as an ass. I have seen plenty of that around elsewhere. Going back and looking at the posts in this thread, you are correct, I did not answer the OP's question.

The point I was making was to get maximum value when you reload, you must buy in bulk.

I put finances ahead of hoarding, because the OP mentioned being on a budget. In this economy, it would be foolish for someone to max out a charge card buying a ton of supplies because they are trying to save a few bucks. Hence I suggested keeping a few hundred rounds available at all times. But I also pointed out there is no need to have thousands of rounds available at any one time. This is an immediate action.

Long term, I do not have a solution when it comes to outright ban or confiscation. Other than trying to fight them every way at the ballot box, for now I could only suggest having a good supply of the components most difficult to fashion in a home workshop - primers, then powder.

Bullets can be cast, brass can be formed. But I don't think many have the capability to formulate smokeless powder or fashion primers.

This game can go on for a long time. What do we do when they ban reloading? Wasn't it also Kommiefornia that tried to require a mfg license for the production of ammunition, even for "personal use?"

How much ammo to have at all times

How much ammo to have at all times

Before the boat sank & losing all my guns I used to shoo

Re: Before the boat sank & losing all my guns I used to