If someone was new to Archery

[BWT]

I was kicking around the idea today...

I've got a few more guns and a suppressor in particular I want to buy before I get side tracked into anything.

But what would be recommendations of good brands, training equipment, sighting systems, books, do's and don'ts of Archery if someone were to get interested.

I talked to a guy briefly about it, I told him I'd shoot mostly, and maybe maybe maybe one day hunt. I figured out people traditionally hunt out to about 20 yards, (according to the one guy I spoke to), out west apparently they hunt longer distances.

What's the best lb rating for performance?

I just find it interesting, I also like the fact I could put up one of those little target boxes and shoot in my back yard. (once we get a fence, shooting away from the neighbors with kid's houses, etc.)

What products would you guys steer people towards, and what products would you steer people away from.

What's good for Competition?

What's good for hunting?

Are there good publications out there on this information?

Thanks in advance.

[Buzduk]

There are so many great bows and companies out there it is staggering. The good thing is when you get any of them you will be getting something that people only dreamed about 20 years ago. You can't go wrong with the following brands:(no particular order here) Hoyt, Mathews, PSE, Bear, bowtech, Diamond and thats just a few. I am a big guy and can pull back a heavy bow but I use a 60lb bow (PSE MachX, not made any more) and blow straight through deer. I have 20,30 and 40 yard pins(sights) on my bow and practice at all 3 distances. You need to get the bow from a good bow mechanic that can teach you correct stance, draw, anchor and release, once that is done you will be amazed how quick you pick it up. I have seen people that have never shot a bow, but one, get it set up, sight in and hunt in the same day! Not saying that is the way to go but in just a little time you will be very proficient with your bow. If you are going to shoot competition all the time you might want a bow with a longer riser. If you are going to shoot outdoor 3D comp you might want a faster bow or more draw weight. You dont have to go crazy and there are some great packages ready to go that perform well. Make sure that the range you buy it from gives you free range time with a bow purchase. This is all based on hunting with a compound. If you want to hunt traditional (recurve or long bow, no sights , just wood and string) you will need to practice constantly to be accurate where as most bow hunters pick up their bow a month before season to shake the cobwebs out. If you have any other question about gear to get or not to get PM me.

[BWT]

Thank you, like I said, just gathering info.

I've still got a gun and suppressor purchase I need to do before this, so it may be awhile.

I figured I'd post it, because it might also be of use to other individuals.

Thanks for the insight.

I don't really know if there's an Archery range near me... Interesting.

[Ben B.]

I have periodically considered getting into longbow. I'm having fun now with IPSC/IDPA/steel, but the day may come for me with longbow.

[BWT]

I have periodically considered getting into longbow. I'm having fun now with IPSC/IDPA/steel, but the day may come for me with longbow.

I know what you mean, I've always enjoyed Archery, I took it at some Summer camps, enjoyed it. It's kind of like golfing alone, it's relaxing, frustrating and at times rewarding.

It's when my Dad and brother and I get out there, my Dad's pissed off half the time, my brother's half-lit that it all goes to hell in a hand basket.



I like the practicality of the Compound bows and how they appear.

But, the Long bows definitely have my interest piqued as well.

Like JohninNH said, the English Long Bowman was well respected, feared and hated, for one reason. They shot 100-lb bows.

Which with the correct arrow heads pierce plate, mail and other armors, bringing down nobility and knights.

They could down knights off of their horses and penetrate their armor, they were just about the only thing that'd shut down a Cavalry Charge (in large number of archers anyway) back in their hayday, and for that reason they received the stiffest of punishments, similar to Snipers, they were hung on the spot.

If the rare occasion they weren't killed when captured their middle finger was either broken or cut off so they couldn't draw a bow string again. Which is actually where the connotation for the Middle Finger came from. Taunting the French exposing their Middle fingers to them before the battle, I'm sure the words often accompanied it so often that eventually, the symbol and words stuck together.

English Long Bowmen in the 100-Years war between England and France.

They had a little bit less range than Crossbows, but they could shoot much faster than a Crossbow. So they were preferred.

I'll probably end up with a Compound Bow though, I'm thinking about hunting, etc...

I saw some with a black rod sticking from the front of them, in front of the bow, what is that for? Balance?

Also I saw some Arrows early today that said I believe don't shoot in a bow over 45 lbs rating, is there a reason for this? Do the arrows shiver or become brittle?

Is there a brand of arrows to look for that're recommended?

Thanks for any info or insight.

ETA: I also notice some targets are rated for only 180 FPS...

http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/produ ... tId=976673

Now there aren't exactly arrow ballistic calculators, but how much speed could you get out of say a 30 lb, 45 lb, 60 lb, and 75 lb, for example.

What kind of drop off do you see?

Are their lots of variances in the weight of arrow heads that would make one slower or others faster, obviously aerodynamics play a role, but how significant...

Also, at what FPS does an Arrow become mostly ineffective... I guess that'd be the best way to figure it's range.

Hm.

I don't mean to post question after question after question, but, I figure if I at least get the questions out there as a total novice, maybe I can help somebody else who has some interest answer some of their own questions.

ETA 2: I ask that above question about FPS because...

http://www.dickssportinggoods.com/produ ... 24.2293465

For instance has a FPS of about 280-290 FPS. I'd imagine you could shoot clear through that other target fairly easily.

or this one tops out at 310 FPS.

http://www.academy.com/index.php?page=c ... 01767-8865

Anybody have any ball park ideas on FPS at different ranges? I don't thing you can get extremely consistent data because some of it will have to do with Shooter fatigue, consistent draw, release, etc... You can't exactly put a bow in a machine and test for consistency, so I'd say a variance of what 15-20 FPS from about 280 FPS is probably acceptable from the get go...

ETA 4:

Looking back also, I can recall reading an archery book where they would (I believe it was "An Archer's Tale", it was a good book... placed historically accurate to the Hundred Year's war, written by Bernand Cornwell, very good historical writer, makes certain to keep all battles in line with when/where/how they happened, gives a great feeling for the era, but also writes a fiction story, that would be consistent to that day) would pull off the Bow String so that the Bow wouldn't continue to stay under pressure.

They also only made bows out of Ash back then, I believe, now we have many composites, but it brought the idea to me.

They also made the strings out of animal sinew, obviously that's changed as well...

What kind of maintenance do Bow's have, if any at all?

How often do strings need to be realistically replaced? How hard are they to replace?

Also getting back to Arrows, how frequently should they be replaced, I imagine they do see wear, is there a good indicator of how/when?

How many times can you shoot an arrow before you should be concerned about it warping, etc.?

Not only would the initial force wear on an arrow, I would imagine it impacting against an target would as well...

Do you replace knocks frequently?

On that note... I think I'll silence my curiousity, and wait for responses...



Like I said, I know nothing... I don't plan on this being a project for some time, but I'd like to know what to look for for when it does become one, and again, my questions could maybe lead to more answers for others down the road...

ETA 5: By the way, I wanted to thank you Buzduk for extending the offer, and I'm sure I'll use it later. I didn't mean to say I don't accept it.

But I just also wanted to keep it in a thread for posterity for other individuals also I don't want to blow up your PM Box.

[BWT]

http://www.amazon.com/Become-Arrow-Targ ... =sid_dp_dp

Might be a good book to pickup.

He reminds me of Brian Enos for some reason...

Apparently, you need to start with the Arrows as Arrows promote consistency, which makes sense... translates from firearms.

http://www.amazon.com/Beginners-Guide-T ... 0811731332

Might also give some general do's and dont's, does briefly mention posturing, etc.

It's funny I compared it to golf, it seems there is a repetitive setting up in technique that'll be needed like Golf, same as shooting really.

Quick question. I'm right handed and left eye dominant, so how bad is that going to screw things up for my Shooting of a bow and arrow?



Took some adaptation to shoot handguns proficiently with both eyes open, still working on rifles, and I can't shoot pool worth a crap.

[elkonastick]

Been bowhuning for around 15 years or so, I love it. I've had an FFL for over 20 years, but still love to stick critters with a sharp stick.

Traditional, longbow, recurve, take aot of dedication to get good at it, but it's a blast. Compound bows have a MUCH shorter learning curve. Mechanical release or fngers is up to you. I use a release on my compound, makes ME shoot more accuratley. But I know some finger shooters that do just fine. Todays equipment is awesome.

I started with a compound, once I had that down I picked up a recurve and started learning it. I hunt with my compound mostly, but will grab the recurve if we hunt the thick stuff. 20 yards is about my max range with it. The compound I have up to a 60 yard pin, we're out west. Killed a nice bull this year at 51 yards.

What you start with is up to you. I wouldn't go over a 50# traditional bow, or a 70# compound to start. I keep my compound at 62#'s, it'll shoot clean through an elk. I use Goldtip carbon arrows, very tough, but there are many good brands. You can even get them in a wood grain finish for the traditional look. If you go aluminum or wood, be ready to replace alot of arrows as you learn.

Go to yor local bow shop, they can help you get set up. Don't drop big $$ on your first bow. If you like it you can always upgrade later. I use my first bow as a back-up when we go hunting. There is so much stuff out there for bows it'll blow your mind. I have a whole drawer full of the latest greatest crap. Took it all off and went back to basic set up.

Be ready to have another hobbie, it'a addicting!

[yellowfin]

For those of smaller build size, it's almost impossible to beat the Browning Micro Midas and Hoyt Trykon Jr.

[silencertalk]

Yeah, don't get too high a draw weight on your first bow. 60 lbs max I would say for almost anyone else it will be harder to have proper form. I think mine is 50 lbs. It is not a benching contest.

[diablito]

Yeah, don't get too high a draw weight on your first bow. 60 lbs max I would say for almost anyone else it will be harder to have proper form. I think mine is 50 lbs. It is not a benching contest.

60lbs is a bit heavy for someone who has never pulled before...

[silencertalk]

That is why I said 60 lbs max. That is if you are a hulk. I hope no average or moderately above average person thinks I was speaking to them. I meant, no matter how huge you are or how much you can bench, don't consider more than 60.

[Ben B.]

Please be more explicit. I don't understand all of this subtle double entendre and esoteric vagaries.

[BWT]

I guess the flip side of also a lighter bow is easier to focus on your technique.

I can bench press a set of ten of 275 (Well... I move up five lbs each time I increase and do another set, I can do ten of 270, last time I did 275 I did 5 reps, 2 and then 3 and then one more, but regardless, that's my last set bench pressing anyway). I'd consider myself above average... But I'm still not going to use a 60 lb bow.

I mean it could also be equated to giving a .44 Magnum to a new shooter, even if they can handle the recoil, it'll develop terrible technique, such as flinching, maybe jerking the trigger, etc.

Where as with a .22 lr you can focus more on the fundamentals and practice, without getting all the muzzle blast, etc.

You'll also fatigue faster with a heavier pull weight bow. I figure get something that's easy to practice with and get familiar with.

So I'm thinking start 40-50 lbs, when I do, don't put a lot of money with it because I probably won't stick with that bow, just get a bow that can be heavily accessorized (not that I care about accessories, but just, more the AR-15 of Bows if I could, just so I can change things and figure out what works for me, I don't care about having anything but the necessities.)

Also, I view it kind of as I viewed golf in another respect. I have an interest in Archery, but not a burning interest, I think it's neat, and I'd love to shoot. But I don't know how far this goes. I got a mediocre set of golf clubs, because I only play maybe 5-6 times a year, I really don't see it worth while to upgrade. I also don't have time to play, or a group of friends to go with, etc. So if I lose interest in the hobby, I don't have a lot invested in it.

I figure get a middle of the road bow, and if I really fall in love with the sport, get a great quality one once I figure out all the do's and don'ts for me.

Keep the tips coming, I appreciate them.

[silencertalk]

Personally I never used my compound bows once since getting a recurve. One should have both of course.

[BWT]

Personally I never used my compound bows once since getting a recurve. One should have both of course.

Of course.

What brand recurve would you recommend?

I'm looking around, not sure if I want to shoot recreationally, competitively, or hunting, and it'll be awhile, so we'll see.

ETA: Also for posterity.

Why do you like recurve's over compound bows?

I'd think recurve's size could be detrimental in some applications, i.e., Hunting, where you'll be seated in a deer stand.

[silencertalk]

I have Hoyt and W&W recurves. I like W&W from 6 years ago. I have not looked lately.

I am not sure why I ended up liking recurve better. I really expected to like compound better.

I like recurve with no release and if I use compound I use a release.

[silencertalk]

I just pulled out my recurve and shot 15 arrows. Mine is 36 lbs.

Also did my compound and that was fun. I liked it and I am not necessarily recommending one over the other.

If you want to hunt then compound. If you want to pretend you are in the olympics, then recurve.

[silencertalk]

This is where I bought most of my stuff:

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/

[BWT]

I just pulled out my recurve and shot 15 arrows. Mine is 36 lbs.

Also did my compound and that was fun. I liked it and I am not necessarily recommending one over the other.

If you want to hunt then compound. If you want to pretend you are in the olympics, then recurve.

Haha, thanks for the insight.

Honestly I don't know how interested in hunting I am, I'd like to get comfortable shooting again first.

Are recurves sightless?

Do they have different feels in the draw/release?

I'm curious.

Also you mention using a release on a compound, what are your impressions, do you like them?

Is it a necessity or luxury? I know in the heavy pull weight bows it'll take the pressure off your finger tips and put it on your wrist, etc.

What brand do you use?

The simplicity of the recurve is attractive, apparently Compound bows have cams and mechanical features I can't appreciate.

But I'm leaving it up in the air.

I take it that Recurves are traditionally wood, and compounds are typically light alloys.

Also, what for a lack of better terms "forearm guard" do you use to keep the bow string from slapping your forearm?

Thanks for any and all insights.

[silencertalk]

I use a Beiter (spelling?) guard. It is just a strip of plastic.
http://www.wernerbeiter.com/en/products ... hedule.php
They have all sorts of high quality plastic archery parts. Sort of the Magpul of competitive archery.

I am not saying it is what to get. It is what I got 7 years ago. I like it a lot. My friend have me a non-trigger kind and I have not tried it yet.

A release is optional for compound. No one uses a release for recurve. I like a release for compound as I figure if I am going modern, go completely modern. The reason why I use one is I get my non-release fun from recurve. I have this one:

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/product ... cts_id=932

Recurves for target use have sights. They range in price from $15 to $400. I have an awesome Korean carbon fiber one. Good ones are $80 and up.

For hunting with a compound you generally use pin sights with a few ranges set on it. I have a http://www.spot-hogg.com/ Awesome machine work on it (from 7 years ago).

I did notice today that my recurve was a lot louder than my compound. That may mean I have a tuning issue.

There are wood recurves but generally longbows are the wood traditional bows and high-end recurves are modern fiberglass, aluminum, and carbon fiber. Just look at the Hoyt and Win&Win website or Lancaster Archery. You can spend up to $1300 on a recurve without a sight so $1500 with one. I think when I got mine they were more like $700 for the best.

[silencertalk]

The book I have says an adult male should learn on an 18-25lb recurve.

Maybe buy a used set of limbs that are in this range and later get a new set once you decide what final weight to get.

I think while getting back up to speed I will use my wife's bow. Basically if you have too much weight you cannot easily keep your bow-arm at the best angles.

[yellowfin]

There are a few advantages compounds have that carry appeal beyond hunting and mechanical-technological interest. First is control. With the let-off of a compound--when you have it all the way back the cams roll over and you're holding half or less of the pull weight-- you don't get as fatigued as you would holding a recurve at full draw weight, and using that with a release dramatically reduces the variability hence greater consistency. Since you'll likely have a good arrow rest there's a lot more consistent hold and guidance of the arrow. It's easier and faster to get acceptable accuracy with a compound, all other things equal. Second comes with that advantage the ability to shoot a more powerful bow for the same amount of effort, which gives you more speed and thus a more favorable trajectory and lessened susceptibility to wind. Third a compound is highly adaptable: you can adjust the draw weight and draw length to fit you more precisely, logically enhancing your control.

People shoot recurve because they like it for the added interest, but generally speaking people choose compounds for the results gained by the design.

[BWT]

There are a few advantages compounds have that carry appeal beyond hunting and mechanical-technological interest. First is control. With the let-off of a compound--when you have it all the way back the cams roll over and you're holding half or less of the pull weight-- you don't get as fatigued as you would holding a recurve at full draw weight, and using that with a release dramatically reduces the variability hence greater consistency. Since you'll likely have a good arrow rest there's a lot more consistent hold and guidance of the arrow. It's easier and faster to get acceptable accuracy with a compound, all other things equal. Second comes with that advantage the ability to shoot a more powerful bow for the same amount of effort, which gives you more speed and thus a more favorable trajectory and lessened susceptibility to wind. Third a compound is highly adaptable: you can adjust the draw weight and draw length to fit you more precisely, logically enhancing your control.

People shoot recurve because they like it for the added interest, but generally speaking people choose compounds for the results gained by the design.

Thank you, that was very helpful.

Lots of the info was. I think I'll end up with a Compound (I was thinking that anyway), lower weight, just as I want to get familiar and practice practice practice.

But I've got some other gun projects first.

It seems like once you get a Recurve it's built to order and basically a cast in stone type thing, where as your have the modularity of Compounds, draw weight, etc...

Interesting. Thank you.

[silencertalk]

http://www.huntersfriend.com/bowselecti ... -namebrand

However, since most manufacturers rate their own bows - they'll usually give themselves a few added advantages by testing the bows with a bare arrow shaft (no fletchings), a naked string (no nocking point, peep sight, or silencers), the lowest possible let-off setting, and with a drop-away style rest.

...


Since the industry has no independent testing authority to actually scientifically verify each of the manufacturers' claims, most bows end up with advertised IBO speeds that are optimistically high, and nearly impossible to duplicate. After all, most consumers don't have the benefit of a chronograph, and few people actually shoot 70# DW, 30" DL, and exactly a 350 gr arrow. And even if they did, there will always be some percentage of variance among scales and chronographs to help dismiss any claims of discrepancies. So there's really no way to hold manufacturers accountable for their exact IBO speed numbers. From our experience, they're all guilty of a little IBO speed padding. But in all fairness, most are careful not to get too carried away. A little padding and outright fabricating are different things.

As such, we recommend you consider the manufacturers' ratings as a high-estimate. In most cases, the IBO speed is still a reliable method of "Apples-to-Apples" comparison among different bow models. We just have to accept that manufacturers invariably doctor-up their apples to be a little sweeter than they actually are. It's just part of the game. So don't assume something is "wrong" with your new bow just because it doesn't shoot as fast as it's posted IBO Speed. Very few, if any at all, bows do.

In fact, we periodically IBO test new bows here at our facility. Over the course of several years and countless dozens of tests, we have NEVER found a single bow which will actually shoot at or above it's advertised IBO speed - from any manufacturer.

[silencertalk]

Here are some general guidelines for choosing an appropriate draw weight. Of course, each individual is different. You should apply your common sense here and interpret this chart with due respect to your own age, general physical condition, and Body Mass Index (BMI). If you are new to the sport, please read additional discussion article on choosing an appropriate draw length and weight.
Very Small Child (55-70 lbs.) 10-15 lbs.
Small Child (70-100 lbs.) 15-25 lbs.
Larger Child (100-130 lbs.) 25-35 lbs.
Small Frame Women (100-130 lbs.) 25-35 lbs.
Medium Frame Women (130-160 lbs) 30-40 lbs.
Athletic Older Child (Boys 130-150 lbs.) 40-50 lbs.
Small Frame Men (120-150 lbs.) 45-55 lbs.
Large Frame Women (160+ lbs.) 45-55 lbs.
Medium Frame Men (150-180 lbs.) 55-65 lbs.
Large Frame Men (180+ lbs.) 65-75 lbs.