AR-15 SBR Lower

Solothurn · Post by **Solothurn** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 1:56 pm

Who sells AR-15 stripped lowers originally manufactured as SBRs?

ThePatriot · Post by **ThePatriot** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 2:15 pm

Noveske is the only one that comes to mind. There must be others though.

Chad McCumbers · Post by **Chad McCumbers** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 4:02 pm

Nobody.

A stripped lower is not an SBR. A bbl must be included.

lmt-ar · Post by **lmt-ar** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:12 pm

Im pretty sure you cant get them anymore. Only option is form 1 or purchase a complete.

ThePatriot · Post by **ThePatriot** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 5:32 pm

Oops! I just caught the stripped lower part.

I was thinking complete lowers.

CKOD · Post by **CKOD** » Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:07 pm

Yep, needs to be an SBR to be registered as an SBR. You can buy a grenade launcher or other DD receiver without a barrel and its not a DD because it doesn't have a bore >.5" (since it has no bore at all) Then do a form 1 and get barrel for it. At least you used to anyway, I have heard of people doing it with street sweepers/strykers, and some 40mm launchers.

Artos · Post by **Artos** » Sat Apr 17, 2010 7:36 am

Daniel Defense & C3 Defense sell registered sbr lowers...I purchased my C3 stripped.

-k- · Post by **-k-** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 10:40 am

Chad McCumbers wrote:A stripped lower is not an SBR. A bbl must be included.

This is the current opnion of the ATF.

CarlosDJackal · Post by **CarlosDJackal** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:20 pm

-k- wrote:
Chad McCumbers wrote:A stripped lower is not an SBR. A bbl must be included.
This is the current opnion of the ATF.

This doesn't make sense. I've registered two AR15 lowers without the presence of a barreled upper. As I understood it, once the ATF approved the paperwork, that lower was effectively and legally an NFA item (registered as an NFA).

Just because I haven't placed a barreled upper on it, it doesn't mean I would NOT be breaking the law if I transported it out of its state of registry without an approved ATF Form 5320.2; would it? Because if that were true, then theoretically I can leave the 10.5-inch barreled upper home and be free to take the registered lower anywhere in the country.

Can anyone clarify this?

MCASSgt New River · Post by **MCASSgt New River** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:43 pm

Artos wrote:...I purchased my C3 stripped.

+1 me too.

gotgraham · Post by **gotgraham** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:44 pm

+1 I did as well.

MCASSgt New River · Post by **MCASSgt New River** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:49 pm

Dont mean to thread-jack but did anyone with a C3 lower have a VERY tight fit with your upper?

D Boone · Post by **D Boone** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:08 pm

As useless as this is to say, I just built off a C3 lower but haven't put an upper on yet. Was going to complete it as a pistol and then register it after I felt it functioned well. Is your tension screw backed down all the way?

MCASSgt New River · Post by **MCASSgt New River** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:13 pm

Completely...even sunk it a little.

D Boone · Post by **D Boone** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:15 pm

what kind of upper are you pairing with? I'll try and stick my smith upper on it tonight.

MCASSgt New River · Post by **MCASSgt New River** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 2:21 pm

#1 was a RRA 9mm upper, that would NOT line up the holes for the rear take-down pin to push in.
#2 was a DPMS 5.56 upper that fit but, I had to lightly tap in the rear receiver take down pin for it to fully go in.

D Boone · Post by **D Boone** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:15 pm

S&W upper snapped on no issues. It is looser on the C3 than the smith lower.

Artos · Post by **Artos** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:56 pm

my upper was a matching C3 custom build...adjusting the tension screw improved groups.

Selectedmarksman · Post by **Selectedmarksman** » Mon Apr 19, 2010 7:59 pm

-k- wrote:
Chad McCumbers wrote:A stripped lower is not an SBR. A bbl must be included.
This is the current opnion of the ATF.

I'm confused.

Item 1: It is illegal to assemble an SBR without having received an approved Form 1 to make and register it as an SBR (NFA).

Item 2: An SBR must be in SBR configuration to be registered as such.

WTF?

Diomed · Post by **Diomed** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:52 am

-k- wrote:
Chad McCumbers wrote:A stripped lower is not an SBR. A bbl must be included.
This is the current opnion of the ATF.

It's black-letter law since at least 1968.

Selectedmarksman wrote:I'm confused.

Item 1: It is illegal to assemble an SBR without having received an approved Form 1 to make and register it as an SBR (NFA).

Item 2: An SBR must be in SBR configuration to be registered as such.

WTF?

There's nothing to be confused about, really. In order to be lawfully configured as a SBR, the firearm must be registered. In terms of a maker (not manufacturer, as the rules are different for them), you apply for permission to make and register a firearm. Once the permission has been granted, you may make it, i.e. install a barrel of less than 16". It is assumed that you made the firearm, which is why it's already registered.

I could go on at length but there's no need to. Stripped SBR lowers are just a legal fiction, don't pay attention to them. Proceed with your making as you have done.

aggiez28 · Post by **aggiez28** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:52 am

CarlosDJackal wrote:
-k- wrote:
Chad McCumbers wrote:A stripped lower is not an SBR. A bbl must be included.
This is the current opnion of the ATF.
This doesn't make sense. I've registered two AR15 lowers without the presence of a barreled upper. As I understood it, once the ATF approved the paperwork, that lower was effectively and legally an NFA item (registered as an NFA).

Just because I haven't placed a barreled upper on it, it doesn't mean I would NOT be breaking the law if I transported it out of its state of registry without an approved ATF Form 5320.2; would it? Because if that were true, then theoretically I can leave the 10.5-inch barreled upper home and be free to take the registered lower anywhere in the country.

Can anyone clarify this?

a form 1 is an application to make the SBR. once it is approved you can then take your title 1 lower and put a short upper on it. once the upper is on it then it falls under NFA rules.

regarding the paragraph about transposting it w/o a barrel. you can take the barrel off and take the lower to any state as long as its legal in that state and you dont have the barrel with you. you do not need a 5320.2.

you can also take the barrel off and then sell it as a title 1 reciever and there is no requirement to do a form 4 or notify the ATF.

-k- · Post by **-k-** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:15 am

What you do with a F1 is different than what manufacturers do to make/transfer an SBR.

If we could we would offer them. I am working on a way to get people who have a Noveske lower a factory SBR'd option.

Libertarian_Geek · Post by **Libertarian_Geek** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:55 am

MCASSgt New River wrote:Dont mean to thread-jack but did anyone with a C3 lower have a VERY tight fit with your upper?

Here, let me fix that for you...

MCASSgt New River wrote:I'm going to thread-jack. Get ready.

There. Now we can be friends again.

MCASSgt New River · Post by **MCASSgt New River** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:03 pm

Libertarian_Geek wrote:
MCASSgt New River wrote:Dont mean to thread-jack but did anyone with a C3 lower have a VERY tight fit with your upper?
Here, let me fix that for you...

MCASSgt New River wrote:I'm going to thread-jack. Get ready.
There. Now we can be friends again.

Shall I fix this for you....

Now I'm gunna be an ass even though MCASSgt New River is trying to save another member from potentially buying a sub-standard product.

but thanks for trying to put words in my mouth.

Libertarian_Geek · Post by **Libertarian_Geek** » Tue Apr 20, 2010 1:08 pm

MCASSgt New River wrote:
Libertarian_Geek wrote:
MCASSgt New River wrote:Dont mean to thread-jack but did anyone with a C3 lower have a VERY tight fit with your upper?
Here, let me fix that for you...

MCASSgt New River wrote:I'm going to thread-jack. Get ready.
There. Now we can be friends again.
Shall I fix this for you....

Now I'm gunna be an ass even though MCASSgt New River is trying to save another member from potentially buying a sub-standard product.

but thanks for trying to put words in my mouth.

You're welcome. Notice how I was an ass without first apologizing for the fact that I was going to be an ass? Compare that to this sarcastic gem:

I don't mean to be sarcastic, but was using the Back button +

too difficult a skill to master? Did the video professor not teach it? ooh, was that sarcastic? Sorry, I have a typing disorder that causes me to manifest my disdain for such masturbatory linguistic arrogance as sarcastic forum replies. Darn.. I did it again. Sorry!

Point being... Why apologize if you never intended to avoid it? Stating that your intent wasn't to divert the conversation, and then diverting the conversation shows that the first part of your statement was just written to improve the image of the poster.

It's as if wanted to say.."I don't want to be an ass, but I am going to be one." If you're an ass and you don't want to be one, then change. If you're and ass and you don't plan on changing, or haven't yet made a decision to not be an ass, then don't tell us that your intent is otherwise.

Also, don't make excuses that the end justifies the means. If you want to save other members from potentially buying a sub-standard product, then Click the back button, and post a new topic. But if you're going to thread jack, then make no pre-apologies. Try to thread jack with confidence and gusto next time!

By the way.. I like you MCASSgt New River. We both maintain a love for sarcasm.

You're alright in my book.