Suggestions Please

[shootertom]

I am looking for a 3 gun type semi auto and would like some suggestions. I don't really have a figure of how much id like to spend, but Id like something pretty nice. Pictures would be great.

[ThePatriot]

Saiga 12 is damn near unbeatable, especially if you have to reload. I'm sure you will get a bunch of opinions on this because there are many great guns out there. But, there are so many things you can do to a saiga to make it just how you want it and ready for competition.


http://forum.saiga-12.com/ has all the information you need to trick out your Saiga. The guys there know their s--t. Feel free to ask me questions but I am not an expert.

http://mississippiautoarms.com/ and http://store.carolinashooterssupply.com ... StoreFront are the best places for all your saiga parts and accessories needs

If you want a ready to go "race gun" without doing any work yourself talk to the guys at http://www.randrtargets.com/
Their packages are a bit pricey but they build amazing guns.

[shootertom]

Thanks for the post, that thing is amazing! I hadnt even considered something like that, I was thinking more traditional, but I really agree with being able have so many possible modifications. How does it shoot? Is it something that requires an optic?

[ThePatriot]

Thanks for the compliment. I have basically no gunsmithing experience and did all of the work myself by reading online and watching videos. I really enjoy shooting it. The recoil is nothing with birdshot and not bad with buck and slugs. The gun comes stock with open sights that are basic sporting style like a 10/22. There are a lot of different mounts for optics as well as HK sights. There are HK sights that can be welded on and others that can be mounted on a rail. I prefer red dot sights like the Burris Fastfire II pictured. It even works for trap and skeet as well as target shooting.

If you aren't familiar with the function, it is very much like an AK. Meaning it is gas operated, has a rotating bolt, large safety lever, top dust cover, and it is reliable. once converted (FCG moved forward, pistol grip and stock installed) it accepts AK grips and stocks. As you can see mine has an AR stock adapter and a SAW grip. Again there are so many ways to configure one that the possibillities are endless. Hell, you can even throw on a suppressor if you want.

[YugoRPK]

I own a converted Saiga and it took a lot of work to make it somewhat reliable and it like most Saigas ( if not all ) will not cycle 2 3/4 bird shot reliably from the hip no matter what you do and it might not be the best shotgun if you are into competing. The BHO is manual and rudimentary at best and some of the magazines are lacking .
I also recently picked up a M2 Benelli Tactical. The Saiga is more customizable due to its AK lineage but that Benelli is so far superior as a practical weapon its not even funny . It cycles and runs like a raped ape.

The Saiga is cheaper to begin with but by the time you factor in the conversion parts they end up costing about the same considering Benelli is offering a $150 cash rebate on them right now. . I just have to say the Benelli is so much more shotgun for the money its hard to express in words.

[ThePatriot]

Since mine got broken in I don't have any problems with bulk birdshot. I never polished the bolt, played with the ports, or did anything other than convert it. I took the BHO out and found I was quicker by just holding the charging handle back and popping in a mag then releasing the bolt. Maybe not the ideal way to load but unless you have a LRBHO you do what works. If you install or have a magwell installed it is just like reloading and AR, no rocking the mag up at an angle. Either way reloading with the Saiga is way faster than loading one by one into a tube. I have nothing against benelli, to each their own.

[YugoRPK]

I think its actually faster to reload the tube fed shotgun since you load as you go. Its easier to keep a pocket full of shells and top off as needed. Then theres changing ammo types mid magazine thats much simpler with a tube fed semi auto.

[Sid_Vicious]

It's my understanding that there's two different gasblocks on Saigas, one with two holes and one with four holes in the adjusting system for the gas system. So there was some problems with the two holes system not eating every ammo type and the fix was the four hole system.

[ThePatriot]

I think its actually faster to reload the tube fed shotgun since you load as you go. Its easier to keep a pocket full of shells and top off as needed. Then theres changing ammo types mid magazine thats much simpler with a tube fed semi auto.

That is a valid point about changing ammo types. I suppose if you could plan out the order of when you need certain loads and load mags accordingly. I don't know how different competitions work. If all you need to use is birdshot then there really isn't an issue. It comes down to what works for your situation. My Saiga is my SHTF gun, so I don't worry about changing ammo and keep all my mags loaded with buckshot. if I wanted to buy a straight up comp gun I would get and R&R.

[YugoRPK]

theyre all over the place. Older Saigas are usually 4 hole and they have problems if the gas settings are adjusted incorrectly with parts breakage. newer 19 inch guns are 3 port and are often drilled too small or poorly drilled and most times will not function worth a damn on light birdshot and they harfly ever function well unless firmly shouldered with light birdshot unless some pretty extensive work is done. there are a lot of two port guns out there too and they often need work. its a great platform if you really like to work on your guns and many people who own them become experts in getting them to work right. getting them to work often means drilling the gas ports so if you have one thats weak ejecting just skip all the polishing and deburring steps and go ahead and pull the gas block and open up or drill at least three 3/32 at a 15 degree angle towards the piston.

[ThePatriot]

IF you have issues with a Saiga, IMO it is worth the effort to make it 100%. Given the info and services out there new shooters should not be turned off from Saigas. I'm going shooting tomorrow and will do some reliability tests with my Saiga (shoot from the hip on both settings). You may be surprised by the results, we will see.

EDIT: well two ten round mags from the hip were 100%. I didn't feel like wasting any more ammo. Doesn't prove anything, 100 rounds would be better.

[shootertom]

So, from what i'm seeing they are pretty quick handling. Do they run 3" or 3.5"?

[YugoRPK]

There are no faster firing shotguns. They will run up to 3 inch shells although the drums will only run 2 3/4" shells. If you buy one do yourself a favor and pick up a 8 round Izhmash mag even though they are crazy expensive if you want something you can rely on. Many of the aftermarket mags are real pieces of crap.

I hope I am being clear about this. If you get a Saiga you WILL end up spending a lot of money on it and working on it a LOT to get it to run right. A Tromix Saiga is an expensive gun but its a bargain if your time and sanity is valuable to you.

[HotGuns]

Check this out...

A Siaga dumping 5 shots Remington 7 1/2 shot in a second.

If you know how to do the conversions, you can make it shoot low brass very well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ovElRuDoPY

[82nd airborne]

HotGuns is being modest. He never mentioned that he built that saiga in the video. I shot a couple drums through one of his yesterday. I have never handeled a Siaga as slick as the ones he turns out.

[DCloudy777]

FYI, the Saiga (or anything else with a detachable mag), will put you in Open class in almost all 3 gun matches. In open class, the Saigas are starting to catch on, the tube fed guns with speedloaders are still winning, but mainly because the top shooters are using them because that's what they are used to.
Now, if you want to shoot anything other than open (Tac Optics, Tac Irons, whatever), three gun is dominated by Benellis (mostly M2s it seems), with the FH SLP (my preference) catching up, and a few 1100s still hanging around. Mossberg is stepping into three gun with their 930 as well (just signed Jerry Miculek, and he had a funky open 930 at Fort Benning). If you've got the coin to spend, the easiest thing to do is call Benny Hill or Salient Arms and tell them you want a three gun shotgun. They both build modified Benellis that are purpose-built 3-gun machines, and the best in the business.

Hope that helps.

DanO

[Veritas]

Without a doubt the FN SLP

[shootertom]

Yeah, the SLP is what I decided Id like to get. It looks and feels like a great gun for the money. I know id end up spending a lot if I went the Saiga route.