5.56mm Form 1 Suppressor Construction Pics

[FastIndy]

what is the wall thickness on the main tube?

The outer tube started life as an 18" 304/L SS Schedule 40 pipe nipple that was hot pierced and rolled from solid bar, so there is absolutely no seam. Different than 'seamless' tubing. It was spendy, but there's enough left to make an additional suppressor whenever I'm ready. I had to turn a bunch of stock off the O.D. but that was easier than boring out the I.D. I just honed the I.D. to clean up at 1.530". The wall thickness is stepped from .080" to .070" to .060" per side giving it a 1.690" O.D. at the widest point.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't nearly all seamless tubing hot pierced and rolled?

[Wicked]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't nearly all seamless tubing hot pierced and rolled?

Generally speaking: Tubing, no. Pipe, yes.

People tend to use tubing for a F1 suppressor (not pipe) because tubing is thin wall and made to convenient sizes. Unfortunately, "seamless" tubing is rolled and welded. Then, the inner and outer welded seams are milled or ground, and polished off. The tubing will have a smooth inner & outer diameter and will not have a raised or visible joint/seam, but it does have one. It's great for fluid transfer, but not so much for high pressure applications. Depending on the level of inspection/certification the weld seam decreases strength by up to approx. 40 percent.

Seamless pipe on the other hand is pierced and rolled. There is absolutely no joint or seam.

[Bandit]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't nearly all seamless tubing hot pierced and rolled?

Generally speaking: Tubing, no. Pipe, yes.

People tend to use tubing for a F1 suppressor (not pipe) because tubing is thin wall and made to convenient sizes. Unfortunately, "seamless" tubing is rolled and welded. Then, the inner and outer welded seams are milled or ground, and polished off. The tubing will have a smooth inner & outer diameter and will not have a raised or visible joint/seam, but it does have one.

Not true at all. People should get the facts straight.
Tubing and pipe are made differently.
There's 2 types of seamless tubing. One is welded, then cleaned up inside and out which is not as strong as real seamless tubing. Some places act like they don't know the difference when selling it.
Real seamless tubing has no weld because it's extruded and formed in a machine.
For an education that will set the record straight see the website at the following link.

http://www.ssttac.com/steel/how-seamles ... -made.html

BTW, I have 304H stainless tubing that is real seamless and has no weld. It's class SA213 seamless.

[Wicked]

Generally speaking: Tubing, no. Pipe, yes.

I placed emphasis on "Generally speaking" for a reason. I'm not a pipefitter or pressure vessel engineer. I'm not up on all the ASTM or ASME specs. But yes, I understand there exists true seamlessly constructed tubing. But the chances that just anyone off the street can source it are pretty slim. As you state, there is soooo much confusion as to what is really being sold as 'seamless' that the non-industry person is 99 times out of 100 going to end up with something less. Especially, if buying drops or by the foot like the guy building a can for himself. If you are purchasing a large quantity, and if buying from a knowledgable source, it is possible to purchase tubing without a seam. Most Form 1 builders are getting their stuff from onlinemetals, McMaster Carr or somewhere like that and very likely none of that tubing is real seamless. I felt it is easier to start with pipe knowing it's honestly seamless, so that's what I did.

I do not have a source for genuinely seamless tubing that will sell by the foot to individuals without an account. That does not mean it doesn't exist. If anyone knows of a place, please post it up.




Friends don't let Friends use tubing with a seam!!

[Bandit]

I placed emphasis on "Generally speaking" for a reason.

Most places sell welded seamless because it's cheaper. Real seamless is more $$$ but, just what is needed for our applications.
Hard to find yes but, not impossible at all.
I see you saved a copy of the pic I posted in this thread. That may be aluminum tubing instead of stainless. No way to know for sure because it's so thick.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=63839&start=25




Here's the tubing I have. It's excellent stuff.

[cncswiss1]

seamless the for sure way: buy solid bar stock and bore that sucker out.. time consuming for sure, but produces a killer tube.. modern insertable drills will knock it out fast to boot.

and guys with wire EDM's just read this and smile, all they need is a start hole and enough Z stroke.

[Mageever]

Yea, unfortunately I think I built an AAC 249-SD. I should be able to make one like this at 20oz.

Nice! In before any "Nice 249-SD" remarks from Kevin.

Thanks for sharing this. You've done a stellar job!

[delta9mda]

can you tell us the spacer lengths and how did you arrive at those numbers?

awesome build bro, even if it is "heavy".

[Wicked]

In before any "Nice 249-SD" remarks from Kevin.

Ouch!! That's gonna' leave a mark. No sense denying the AAC, S/F or Jet design elements though.

Unfortunately, this one's just too heavy. Even for a LMG can.

The 4 sides of the suppressor 'box' might be labeled: 1.) weight 2.) size - length/diameter 3.) durability and 4.) sound suppression. It's easy to get good durability and sound reduction with a large and heavy can. The real trick is to get durability and suppression with a lighter and smaller package.

I'll know better next time.

[mygreenkaw]

can you tell us the spacer lengths and how did you arrive at those numbers?

awesome build bro, even if it is "heavy".

2nd's here would love to have all the details on can if possible

Working on a form 1 now so I'm gather as much information / knowledge as I can to help me decide what to build once my form 1 arrives.

[Wicked]

can you tell us the spacer lengths and how did you arrive at those numbers?

Here's an 'approximate' break-down on the overall length of my core stack starting at the rear. These measurements are figured post-weld, to allow for shrinkage of the core.

(1) Flash reduction chamber - 1.825"
(1) 1st spacer - 1.500"
(1) Blast baffle - .125"
(1) 2nd spacer - .750"
(6) Dome baffles - 300" (.055" each)
(5) Dome baffle spacers - 2.500" (.500" each)
(1) End cap - .250" (.060" thickness)

Total core length = 7.250"
Total outer tube length = 7.00"

The blast and flash reduction chambers account for approx. 40% of the core and the 6 baffles & endcap take up a little over half.
These 'percentages' were mostly derived from semi-scaling pics of commercially produced cores. I didn't re-invent the wheel.
AAC uses equally spaces baffles and S/F does not. I chose to make mine equally spaced.

[delta9mda]

thank you, very cool bro.

[jimmym40a2]

Nice job wicked.

[iron.maiden]

any video ? how does it sound ? it looks like a surefire and old m4-2000 cooperation .

[delta9mda]

it looks like an m42000 with domed baffles. anyways, it seems damn good.

we want video.

[Wicked]

we want video.

any video ? how does it sound?

I recently contacted ArevaloSOCOM and it looks like I might get an opportunity to have my can metered when they run the next test session for NFATalk. Nothing firm at this point but that would be a great time to get some real numbers and also some video as well. I'm crossing fingers. Will post up if/when it happens.

I think this can is really quiet. But, so what - nobody thinks their kid is ugly, right? I hate to say stuff without an unbiased reference, facts or testing to back up my claim. The chance to test it with Bill would be the real deal and then I'd have hard numbers for sure. Honestly, I'm half expecting it might outperform some commercial cans. In the mean time, I will try to get my kids to make a quickie youtube vid.

[Wicked]

Well, I couldn't get the video I took this weekend to download from my phone. Must be doing something wrong.

Anyhow, I went to a long range shoot this weekend. Targets were 12" x 12" steel from 100 out to 1000yds (and one at a mile.) Winds were nasty, was using 4 mils windage - at the 200!! Got good elevation dope out to 600m. Shot next to two guys with $1,350 Ti and Inconel suppressors. The high dollar cans did not sound any better to me, or any of the other shooters there. I think they were more than a bit disappointed once they found out mine was home built, and for about a hundred and a quarter in materials. Sorry!

[rcrdps]

Hmmm,... home built,...... with a couple million in machinery. How about "designed and built by me" ?

Water cut. EDM,.... droooool.

Thanks for the tubing and pipe comparison. Too bad I didn't read this before I did a bulk order from online metals.

Gene

[sduz1]

fucking awesome!!!

[Bandit]

Well, I couldn't get the video I took this weekend to download from my phone. Must be doing something wrong.

Hmmmmm how's that vid coming ?



.

[dangerdan87]

If you go to an oil field supply company such as McJunkin Redman or Wilson, they should have seamless nipple pipe in both steel and stainless steel. If they don't have it, they can order it for you, and sometimes deliver to you at no charge. You can also go as much as buying a 20-25' joint of seamless pipe (they probably wont have this in stock). The Sch. 40 / 2000# pipe isn't all that expensive.

[este]

I can't figure out what you used the water jet for. I think it should be obvious, but I'm not getting it.

[JWebb]

I can't figure out what you used the water jet for. I think it should be obvious, but I'm not getting it.

It's a wire EDM. He cut the bore through the baffles with it.

[este]

I can't figure out what you used the water jet for. I think it should be obvious, but I'm not getting it.

It's a wire EDM. He cut the bore through the baffles with it.

The original post says water jet. Water jet is NOT the same as wire edm (not even close). Did he use water to cut the holes in the spun baffles assemble, then EDM a final bore? Seems pointless to use a water jet if that's the case. Seems like if edm is going to be used a drill, punch or put the holes in when spinning would be faster than using water.

As far as I know, water doesn't like an interrupted cut, so it wouldn't be interchangeable for wire edm-ing a final bore. I must be confused here.

[JWebb]

The original post says water jet. Water jet is NOT the same as wire edm (not even close). Did he use water to cut the holes in the spun baffles assemble, then EDM a final bore? Seems pointless to use a water jet if that's the case. Seems like if edm is going to be used a drill, punch or put the holes in when spinning would be faster than using water.

As far as I know, water doesn't like an interrupted cut, so it wouldn't be interchangeable for wire edm-ing a final bore. I must be confused here.

It does say waterjet in the first post, but this picture is of a wire EDM. I've spent many hours in front of one watching that pretty blue little spark. Where the water jet factors in, I have no clue, maybe they blanked out discs on it, but the picure is of a wire EDM.

I would even fathom a guess as to that being a Mitsubishi submersible wire, but my recollection of the splash sheild and upper head is failing me tonight.