House Republicans attempt to revive Real ID

[zeezee]

"If you're a resident of one of at least 24 states including Arizona, Georgia, and Washington, your driver's license may no longer be valid for boarding an airplane or entering federal buildings as of May 11, 2011.
That's the deadline that senior House Republicans are calling on the Obama administration to impose, saying states must be required to comply with so-called Real ID rules creating a standardized digital identity card that critics have likened to a national ID."

http://news.cnet.com/8301-31921_3-20038 ... z1FZpn2gFy

WTF? Has anyone else seen this?

[Crosshair]

State nullification killed it once and it will kill it again.

[PTK]

Here in MT, we already voted on that. As a whole.



It was "no".

[silencertalk]

Why don't we want this? So that if we need to legitimately evade the govt we can more easily fake an ID?

[WhisperFan]

Why don't we want this? So that if we need to legitimately evade the govt we can more easily fake an ID?

To me it's more about perception ....
If the Feds want a copy of your State ID or DL, the State will give them all the information about you that they have, including a photo.

That being said, it smacks of a "Big Brother" type thing to have a National ID Card. I think of the Gestapo stopping a person and saying, "Papers please" and that person taking out their kennkarte (Identity papers)

I would have to know a lot more about it before I thought about supporting it. Would it be voluntary like a getting a passport? If it is, why not just use the passport or passport card? Would it have your address on it, so every time you move, you have to notify the Feds? Would it have an RFID? A finger, or thumb print? Would it have to be produced on demand? Right now I can walk down the street and have no ID in my pocket .... if that ever changes, I would say that our Gov't has shifted from the 'soft tyranny' that it is now, to the other kind!

I also would not be in favor of being forced to install a GPS in my car so the Gov't could tax me for miles driven (and know where I was at all times)

[wolf]

Why don't we want this? So that if we need to legitimately evade the govt we can more easily fake an ID?

To me it's more about perception ....
If the Feds want a copy of your State ID or DL, the State will give them all the information about you that they have, including a photo.

That being said, it smacks of a "Big Brother" type thing to have a National ID Card. I think of the Gestapo stopping a person and saying, "Papers please" and that person taking out their kennkarte (Identity papers)

I would have to know a lot more about it before I thought about supporting it. Would it be voluntary like a getting a passport? If it is, why not just use the passport or passport card? Would it have your address on it, so every time you move, you have to notify the Feds? Would it have an RFID? A finger, or thumb print? Would it have to be produced on demand? Right now I can walk down the street and have no ID in my pocket .... if that ever changes, I would say that our Gov't has shifted from the 'soft tyranny' that it is now, to the other kind!

I also would not be in favor of being forced to install a GPS in my car so the Gov't could tax me for miles driven (and know where I was at all times)

I have a Q

you walk down the street and have no ID in your pocket

the police are looking for a suspect , they know the name
they see you , and by bad luck , you look like the suspect

they ask if you are so and so (the suspects name )
you say no
they ask for a id (papire bitte ), and you say ,you dont have any with you (just like the real suspect would say )

what is going to happen

I'm, from Denmark
and we DO have to be able to identify ourself

But nothing you think about most of the time , most people do have a drivers license with them all the time

But you must be prepared that they will take you with them , until they know for sure who you are

this will only happen if there is a reason for it , like in above example

[WhisperFan]

Why don't we want this? So that if we need to legitimately evade the govt we can more easily fake an ID?

To me it's more about perception ....
If the Feds want a copy of your State ID or DL, the State will give them all the information about you that they have, including a photo.

That being said, it smacks of a "Big Brother" type thing to have a National ID Card. I think of the Gestapo stopping a person and saying, "Papers please" and that person taking out their kennkarte (Identity papers)

I would have to know a lot more about it before I thought about supporting it. Would it be voluntary like a getting a passport? If it is, why not just use the passport or passport card? Would it have your address on it, so every time you move, you have to notify the Feds? Would it have an RFID? A finger, or thumb print? Would it have to be produced on demand? Right now I can walk down the street and have no ID in my pocket .... if that ever changes, I would say that our Gov't has shifted from the 'soft tyranny' that it is now, to the other kind!

I also would not be in favor of being forced to install a GPS in my car so the Gov't could tax me for miles driven (and know where I was at all times)

I have a Q

you walk down the street and have no ID in your pocket

the police are looking for a suspect , they know the name
they see you , and by bad luck , you look like the suspect

they ask if you are so and so (the suspects name )
you say no
they ask for a id (papire bitte ), and you say ,you dont have any with you (just like the real suspect would say )

what is going to happen

I'm, from Denmark
and we DO have to be able to identify ourself

But nothing you think about most of the time , most people do have a drivers license with them all the time

But you must be prepared that they will take you with them , until they know for sure who you are

this will only happen if there is a reason for it , like in above example

If you resemble the description of a criminal suspect and are in the right vicinity, the police can and will 'detain' you. They may do so long enough to ascertain your identity and to discover if you are involved in any criminal activity. They may not arrest you without probably cause that you are involved in the commission of a crime.

There will be no difference in that if you have an ID - or not. They will still need to detain you if you match the description of a criminal suspect.

The only time you need a driver's license is if you are driving. In my state (Virginia) if you carry a concealed firearm with a permit, you must also carry an ID. Except for that - there is no need to carry an ID anywhere you go here.

[PTK]

It also depends on the state. Some states, even with a criminal on the loose in the right vicinity, if there isn't a witness that saw the person and saw them go to precisely where you are and say, yes, it's them!, then you still can't easily be detained.

These days, the only reason I carry my ID if I'm out walking is because I'm also carrying my CCW and pistol.

As for what the harm of a national ID is, well... we're a union of States. Individual states. We're not wanting everything identical between states, not even ID formats - that's the purpose of our having states in the first place! My MT license has all the needed information. Why make us pay more, change the format, and fall in line with only 26 states that are okay with it?

[shooter666]

If things keep going the way they are we will all be microchipped anyway. I for one will not be!

[Crosshair]

Why don't we want this? So that if we need to legitimately evade the govt we can more easily fake an ID?

Because there is nothing in Article 1 Section 8 in the US constitution that grants them that power.

[continuity]

Why don't we want this? So that if we need to legitimately evade the govt we can more easily fake an ID?

Because there is nothing in Article 1 Section 8 in the US constitution that grants them that power.

This.

My nutcase neighbor says that the Federal Governments responsibility within the USA, rests with State on State interactions. Not with governing the people that reside in those states. He says that while the Constitution does address individual "rights", it is intended to be an enumeration of rules that States must agree to in order to become one of the United States.

I like my nutcase neighbor. He's almost as smart as Crosshair.

[PTK]

Why don't we want this? So that if we need to legitimately evade the govt we can more easily fake an ID?

Because there is nothing in Article 1 Section 8 in the US constitution that grants them that power.

Geeze, I thought that was a goddamn given!

I still stick with the general reason (besides the obvious Constitutional reason given) is that we're separate states and want to keep it that way. That's the general reason I've been getting out of many people locally, as well as even in places like Massachusetts, Connecticut, New Hampshire, Maine, and Vermont, where I have family.

[silencertalk]

Is this a national ID or just a min standard for state driver's licenses?

And even if it is a national ID, we already have SS numbers.

[doubloon]

New ID I think.

SS #s were created for tracking your valuable pension, not for identification.

The use of the SS number for identification was born out convenience and allowed to happen by the ignorance of the American public.

[doubloon]

Is this a national ID or just a min standard for state driver's licenses?

...

Well, it's splitting some hairs.

The act "claims" to be standardization of state driver's licenses but the "shared database" facet of the deal effectively turns state driver's licenses into a national ID card.

Essentially, the fed is trying to create a national ID card and make the states take on the burdens associated with implementation.

[silencertalk]

Wed I am visiting a military conference and have to bring a passport to prove I am a US citizen.

Anyone who cares probably does not have a passport.

I say accept the ID. Make it required to vote and get benefits. Make it harder to be an illegal alien.

[Crosshair]

SS #s were created for tracking your valuable pension, not for identification.

and we were PROMISED by the US government that the SS number would never be used for identification.

[doubloon]

SS #s were created for tracking your valuable pension, not for identification.

and we were PROMISED by the US government that the SS number would never be used for identification.