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Sound Suppressor Discussion
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 Post subject: sionac kit suppressors
PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2007 11:11 pm 
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Silent Operator

Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:26 am
Posts: 93
Location: ky
did anyon buy one back in the day?i was looking through a few issues of firepower magazine and i saw an article and several ads.but,they went out of bussiness.i was going to get a form 1 and make one,but i cant find any dimensions.all i know is that there were 9 neoprene wipes,365 bronze screen washers,2 endcaps,and it all fit into the front tube of a mac sionics supressor.there were two differant wire screens.one had a small hole,and the other had a large hole.is there anyone here with one or that can fill in the gaps?thanks,Nick :?:


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 Post subject: SIONAC Suppressors...
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 2:07 am 
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Silent But Deadly
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Nick,

Check out page 59 of "Silencers in the 80s-Great Designs-Great Designers" by J. David Truby; the dimensions along with a diagram are there.

The owner of the company, General A Z Santini aka Reverend Al Waddell aka Al Miller, ran afoul of the ATF when he began distributing completed units under the table at gunshows in the Midwest back in the '80s. As far as I know, he is still wanted by the FBI, assuming that he's still topside. He would be about 67 years old now.

The expansion chamber had 120 (3/4" opening) brass screens & the rest of the tube contained 270 (1/2" opening) for a total of 390. The tube was 1.75"D x 0.12"wall thickness x 7.0"L. The spacing of the neoprene wipes went from 0.5" to 0.25" toward the muzzle end.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 11:27 am 
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Silent Operator

Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:26 am
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Location: ky
i was of the imprssion that there was no expansion chamber.just a straight tube.or is that why some of the washers have a bigger hole?also,does it have complete dimensions?im going to mke one after i get approval,but i cant figure out the endcaps.


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 Post subject: It's a straight tube...
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 12:10 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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The endcaps are 0.75" wide & held in place by set screws (hole is #9 bit & 0.19" deep). There are 14 set screws utilized on each endcap. Use #29 bit & tap to 8-32. The 1st endcap is threaded internally to 7/8 x 9 TPI or whatever is appropriate. The muzzle endcap is smooth bored to a 1/2" opening. The end wipe directly abutts the last neoprene disc & has a very narrow (unspecified diameter) opening.

The 1st neoprene disc acts as a blast baffle as it just slightly ahead of the crown of the MAC/ SIONICS barrel. I wouldn't imagine that it would last very long due to intense erosion.

Since you are intending to use a Form 1 for assembly as an individual, I am assuming that you are wanting a user friendly interface like wipes & screen that can be replaced by the designated *maker* in-house.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 2:58 pm 
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Silent Operator

Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:26 am
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Location: ky
was that info pulled directly from the book?also, you wouldnt happen to know where i could find one of the manuals that came with the kits do you?

i wanted to make one for several reasons.i know it works is one.and the materials to replace the internals are avaliable in several places in my town.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:14 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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The dimensions came from the book; the rest of the anecdotal reference comes from personal knowledge.

I do not have a manual, but would suggest that you place a WTB ad at some of the firearm related websites including this one.
:idea:

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:45 pm 
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Silent Operator

Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:26 am
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Location: ky
thanks for the help and advice.


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PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:36 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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macgyver6868 wrote:
...it all fit into the front tube of a mac sionics supressor.


The reason that this tube was specified is quite simple; it was a specific length & both ends were internally threaded. Obviously, threaded endcaps would provide a better gas seal than friction fit with set screws. It would depend on the skill of the builder to choose which method was perhaps more expedient.

There was a virtually uncontrolled proliferation of silencer parts kits back in the '80s & ATF was NOT amused. Several manufacturers skirted the legal ramifications by not supplying complete kits. Internal baffle stacks might be provided by one company & tubes from another. Sometimes these outfits were the same people who provided both sets under different names. Tubes for SIONICS type two stage cans usually included the correct front tube with an overlength rear tube (to be sized later).

This created a *mix & match* scenario that BATF put a stop to by classifying EACH SILENCER PART as a SUPPRESSOR in & of itself.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 6:45 pm 
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Silent Operator

Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:26 am
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Location: ky
it only takes one person to scrw us over.it a shame.you wouldnt happen to know how well this type of suppressor works do you?i was loooking through a book and somebody made one along the same guidelines for a .22.it had 3-4 hundred brass screens and 9 wipes.it also had a pic and a referance to the sionac company.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2007 10:55 pm 
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Silent But Deadly
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Wire screen & wipe technology is considered to be obsolete. Bell Labs, R. E. Choate, COBRAY & Don Walsh among others have used variations on this theme in their products over the years. Wire screen, plated wire screen, screen rolls with ported barrels & compressed wire donuts have all been utilized. It is unsatisfatory in that the material loses its original integrity & typically protrudes into the bullet path creating predictable results such as deflection; the same holds true for wipes.

While such designs are crude, they are fairly effective in the short run & simple to fabricate. The early OSS High Standard HDMS used tin plated screen discs & wrap to achieve satisfactory sound reduction, but often required a fresh change out of materials to maintain an acceptable level of performance. Higher pressures generated by .45, 9mm & .380 ammunition produced much more rapid degradation than .22 rimfire.

There is a certain stigma associated with such expedient designs as they are, by connotation, often relegated to the world of unauthorized home workshop & underground tools that are deep-sixed after an op.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2007 12:08 am 
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Silent Operator

Joined: Sun Dec 17, 2006 12:26 am
Posts: 93
Location: ky
i dont care if i have to replace the internals fairly often.i was born after the ban passed and the kit were outlawed.i like the older designs because of the do it yourself factor.i've found an indiana arms 9mm mac silencer ive got my eye on.any background info or ideas on it?


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