Baffle Strike w/ Liberty Torch QA

[togeneral99]

Wondering if anyone else has had any problems with the quick attach mounting and baffle strikes with these cans? This one has been back to Liberty twice and I'm about ready to give up on it.

[Bendersquint]

Have you asked Liberty? They probably know more about how man cans have issues.

Majority of baffle strikes don't get posted online or are not openly spoken about.

[togeneral99]

I have 10-25-2012. Still haven't heard back.....

[SRM]

Sorry to see that!

This is another reinforcement of the direct thread mount. Has the firearm been taken out of question? Even a fast mount needs a threaded barrel.This is where I would look.

[Bendersquint]

I have 10-25-2012. Still haven't heard back.....

If they are anywhere near as busy as we are you shouldn't just wait for a call back, give it 2 or 3 days and call again.

[66427vette]

Who threaded the host and what is it?

[togeneral99]

Host is a 223 AR 11.5" DPMS barrel that shot fine with the same handloads before the supressor went back the 1st time (for a sealant leak around the rear cap - shot out a small flame when fired- otherwise no problems)
Got an e-mail shortly afterwards stating something was wrong with the core - still don't know what - but they replaced it and sent it back....supressordidn't fit on the mount now - sent back again and new mount was returned with the suppressor.
put everything back on the same host with the same ammo and all was well for a while - then the paint started to come off the side of the can and I noticed a keyhole one day while shooting - checked can and noticed that the endcap well.....you can see te damage.
E-mailed got a call back and message left - I was at work - about a week later. I returned the call same day and left message - got a text about 15-20 min later saying I'll call you right back.....that was about 3 weeks ago.

I really feel this is kind of a shame as I really liked this can before I sent it in the 1st time and it has been nothing but a trainwreck since I got it back

Paint pics (I'm not too worried about ths because I can KG Gunkote it but it still is kind of disappointing)

[togeneral99]

for those who are unfamiliar with the mounting design it sits on the shoulder of the barrel and the QA is not threaded

[Bendersquint]

Liberty makes a great can and has excellent customer service, if they haven't called you back why are you not calling them again?

I am not sure why there is such an epidemic about people posting for internet experts opinions rather than calling the manufacturer of the product in question, the frequency increases every week.

[Gagtoe]

Liberty makes a great can and has excellent customer service, if they haven't called you back why are you not calling them again?

I am not sure why there is such an epidemic about people posting for internet experts opinions rather than calling the manufacturer of the product in question, the frequency increases every week.

It goes both ways. I posted up about a baffle kiss. Called spoke to a Liberty person, I told that person that I had both solid and recoil mounts. The solid mount was used on .22 only, recoil on the 9mm.

That person told me to send the 9mm barrel, recoil mount and suppressor back. I did.

I got back a letter saying that I should be using a solid mount when shooting .22. They didn't bother calling me on the phone number listed on the same piece of paper that said I shot .22 and 9mm through it. Since I only sent the recoil mount they assumed I didn't have the solid mount. The liberty representative told me not to send it, if I was getting baffle strikes with .22 it would be unheard of.

[togeneral99]

Liberty makes a great can and has excellent customer service, if they haven't called you back why are you not calling them again?

I am not sure why there is such an epidemic about people posting for internet experts opinions rather than calling the manufacturer of the product in question, the frequency increases every week.

Already called again today - left another message.
If nothing else this is another avenue they may contact me through...
Besides Bender I did not ask for an "Expert's Opinion" I asked if anyone else had heard of a similar problem. As a machinist by trade if I had an SOT I could fix the thing myself - but I believe I am being overly patient and giving Liberty every opportunity to make it right.

[Emilio]

Do you take the mount off and on? Who cut the barrel? May want to send upper in with it.

[togeneral99]

Barrel is factory threaded and works fine with my other suppressors.
The mount hasn't moved since I first got it from liberty, as there is no reason to remove it. I'm thinking the can didn't stay tight to the mount.

[este]

As far as the actual post about end cap strike, I'm going to guess just general instability of that 556 round. Not at all unheard of.

However this....

Got an e-mail shortly afterwards stating something was wrong with the core - still don't know what - but they replaced it and sent it back....supressordidn't fit on the mount now - sent back again and new mount was returned with the suppressor.

Is exactly the reason I will never buy from a small mfg. surefire/AAC/Silencerco would never have these specific issues. The larger companies have tighter tolerances and likely stricter QC because they are moving more parts and need to have everything identical batch to batch.

That paint flaw looks EXACTLY like someone picked it up with greasy hands before spraying. Tell me that isn't a thumb and two fingers! While paint issues aren't exceptionally uncommon, this entire post seems like it would be likely of a small mfg and I think would very rare for a larger company. Just reinforces my reasoning for strictly buying my lifetime cans from big boys. I know some of you disagree and that's fine, but I feel like someone should point out the issues small mfg because certain people here seem a little biased the other way.

[Historian]

As far as the actual post about end cap strike, I'm going to guess just general instability of that 556 round. Not at all unheard of.

However this....

Got an e-mail shortly afterwards stating something was wrong with the core - still don't know what - but they replaced it and sent it back....supressordidn't fit on the mount now - sent back again and new mount was returned with the suppressor.

Is exactly the reason I will never buy from a small mfg. surefire/AAC/Silencerco would never have these specific issues. The larger companies have tighter tolerances and likely stricter QC because they are moving more parts and need to have everything identical batch to batch.

That paint flaw looks EXACTLY like someone picked it up with greasy hands before spraying. Tell me that isn't a thumb and two fingers! While paint issues aren't exceptionally uncommon, this entire post seems like it would be likely of a small mfg and I think would very rare for a larger company. Just reinforces my reasoning for strictly buying my lifetime cans from big boys. I know some of you disagree and that's fine, but I feel like someone should point out the issues small mfg because certain people here seem a little biased the other way.

+2

When a man is right, he is right!

The lesson cannot be overemphasized for our younger members, especially
in weapons purchases ... and in one's lifelong commitments if you be wise.

[T_Tactical]

I have to disagree on larger companies being above having problems. Problems happen in any manufacturing company large or small.

So you seem to think the can came lose from the mount and caused a strike, it sometimes happens. I've seen it happen many times with AAC cans using the 18 tooth mount. But instead of AAC stepping up and fixing the problem, they redesigned the mount and left the owners of the 18 tooth cans hanging out to dry. That's what some large companies do.

The paint is coming off the can and from the looks of it probably wasn't prepped properly. I saw some cases where people received the new SS sparrow and the finish was thin in places where it wasn't properly finished and slipped through QC. SilencerCo didn't hesitate to tell the people to send them back and they took care of it. That's how a company takes care of a problem but the problem still happened so no company is above having problems here and there.

I bought 2 SWR cans back before they were bought out by SilencerCo. SWR was a small company but they offered excellent products and service. Being a small company didn't deter me at all to buy from them.

When SilencerCo started they had one suppressor in their lineup, the aluminum Sparrow. They were also a small company and that didn't deter me from buying from them.

AAC and SureFire didn't open their doors with military contracts, they started out as small companies as well. The reason they grew is because people purchased from them, same way as any other small company grows.

Dave at Liberty is a good guy and makes quality suppressors but he can have production problems same as anyone else.

I think people who overlook a product based only on the size of the company is just being shortsighted and usually suffers from drinking the cool aid that the larger companies are passing out.

[Bendersquint]

I have to disagree on larger companies being above having problems. Problems happen in any manufacturing company large or small.

So you seem to think the can came lose from the mount and caused a strike, it sometimes happens. I've seen it happen many times with AAC cans using the 18 tooth mount. But instead of AAC stepping up and fixing the problem, they redesigned the mount and left the owners of the 18 tooth cans hanging out to dry. That's what some large companies do.

The paint is coming off the can and from the looks of it probably wasn't prepped properly. I saw some cases where people received the new SS sparrow and the finish was thin in places where it wasn't properly finished and slipped through QC. SilencerCo didn't hesitate to tell the people to send them back and they took care of it. That's how a company takes care of a problem but the problem still happened so no company is above having problems here and there.

I bought 2 SWR cans back before they were bought out by SilencerCo. SWR was a small company but they offered excellent products and service. Being a small company didn't deter me at all to buy from them.

When SilencerCo started they had one suppressor in their lineup, the aluminum Sparrow. They were also a small company and that didn't deter me from buying from them.

AAC and SureFire didn't open their doors with military contracts, they started out as small companies as well. The reason they grew is because people purchased from them, same way as any other small company grows.

Dave at Liberty is a good guy and makes quality suppressors but he can have production problems same as anyone else.

I think people who overlook a product based only on the size of the company is just being shortsighted and usually suffers from drinking the cool aid that the larger companies are passing out.

Very well said.

[Emilio]

I agree, all the big companies had lots of issues . Like to ad AAC tumbling issues with 22lr and batches of new sparrows with paint issues.

Small company may have more focused on what they are doing AND more in touch with what people want. (unlike AAC today with corp BS.)

BTW, DPMS is a BIG company. First thought to try other host!

[strobro32]

I'm not sure where the breakdown in communication happened but this is a good company growing their business one satisfied customer at a time. I know they will want to make this right and make you whole. Keep trying to get a hold of them.

[BigDave@SMDW,LLC]

Hello Everybody,

While I like a lively debate, the OP has a problem with one of our units. It is obvious with the endcap strike. I remember when this unit cam in and yes I remember the original problem of the loctite sweating out of the rear joint. This can is run hot as it takes a good bit of heat to melt 680 loctite to the point it will soak out of the joints. We had not seen this phenomenon until this unit was returned. To prevent the unit from doing this again, we tack welded to the parts together if I remember right.

The paint is missing because it is burned off from use. No human touches the cans once they are media blasted and degreased so there are no fingerprints to deal with. There is a baffle that acts as a heat riser of sorts where the paint is missing. I have seen this mark several times with the shop demo can after a few magazines of ammo on our 11.5" gun. The round will get the can VERY hot on a barrel that short. The coating is Norrel Moly Resin and is fairly resistant to heat but will burn off at about 450 degrees or so.

As for no one returning your correspondence, I apologize for this. It is one of my pet peeves to let no one slip through the cracks. It obviously has happened though and I personally was unaware of your latest issue until I found this post today on here. I have sent you an email concerning this and I look forward to your reply. This is not how to treat clientele and we want to make sure everyone of the problems have been addressed AND came up with a solve for them that allows the use of the suppressor.

Thank you for choosing our suppressor,
David Saylors

[OJB4]

See there este....small guys take care of their customers too and usually have a legitimate explanation for why things happen......As Dave said, finish does come off when cans get super hot. I'm a rookie, but I'd bet that if any can on the market got hot enough that the finish would come off or discolor in places. In fact....on the Liberty site under the Torch section it states that the can got its name because if you run a few rounds though the can and then touch it that it's hot as a torch......(this was me paraphrasing)

I run a small pharmacy and if everybody felt the same as you in regards Walmart pharmacy and their QC vs. ours then I'd be out of business for no reason other than ignorance. I'm not trying to say that you aren't intelligent, just have a flawed mentality on small vs. large business. Remember, this country was grown on small business and they continue to support this fine nation!

[togeneral99]

I'm not wanting to fire up a "Small vs. Large company" debate.

I originally purchased from Liberty because of their stellar track record (i.e. I have NEVER heard a bad thing about them). I'm sure they will do whatever they can to find the problem, be it the can, mount, or upper.

I will be sure to keep everyone informed through this post as good customer service should be spoken of with the same fervor as bad.

I have to ask though, since the adapter is .750" inside diameter, and the website states.

"Please note that this mounting device will
only fit barrels .740" and less in diameter.
Your barrel may need to have a special
profile machined on it to accept this mount
if it is too large."

What keeps the mount centered? Both my Colt Sporter and my 11.5" SBR have a diameter of ~.720" after the front sight - this seems like a large amount of possible gap.

Looking at the instructions listed on Liberty's website i think I might see a few reasons the mount could be offset...

Notice that the barel in this picture has another step between the threads and the front sight...



My barrel does not have this step and remains .720" until the front sight.



Also, the thread major dia. on my barrel is .496" while the inside of the mount is .501" I'm not sure if there is a tolerance stacking going on here or not, but I talked to one of Liberty's reps earlier today, and we decided it would be best to send the upper, mount and the can back for diagnosis.

I also received an e-mail from David vowing to figure this whole thing out and really pushing to take care of this matter, and I really appreciate the quick call to action that he has put forth.

[este]

I'm not trying to convince anyone, just saying my thoughts because I've been here before. I wouldn't buy a SILENCER from a small company, the same warnings don't hold true for all areas (furniture, art, foods, cloths, and pharmacy or retailer as a matter of fact) but do for others (custom cars, electronics, etc). In my choice of silencers I'll forgo old school craftsmanship for reliability and repeatability any day. Everyone else is free to do as they wish, I'm just saying this is one thread where:

The OP couldn't get ahold of the small mfg
He returned the product once already
Has an end cap strike
Ran into two mounts of the same type/product that were dimensionally incompatible
Has to send the host in to have it custom fit/confirmed
Has a can with huge finish flaws, I refuse to believe a failure like that is normal, that's thumb and fingers right there

Show me a surefire/AAC/KAC/silencerco/even a gemtech thread that has that many issues with one can. I'm not saying Liberty won't take care of OP, they will, I'm sure of it, they do seem to have excellent service. My points are that the small mfg is not for me. I worked for a small mfg of non-gun stuff, now we're a large one. I'd prefer our new products in terms of quality and consistancy over the old any day of the week. I'd consider a small mfg if it was a niche product I guess.

Just so we're all on the same page here. Two of the people against my opinion are small mfgs, and one guy just debated and stuck with YHM cans over AAC because of the $300 difference. Like I said though, I'm not trying to convince anyone just tossing some experience out there.

Is it better to have excellent service but be more likely to have to use it? Or to have just good service but rarely need it? I'd opt for the latter.

[Emilio]

I'm not trying to convince anyone, just saying my thoughts because I've been here before. I wouldn't buy a SILENCER from a small company, the same warnings don't hold true for all areas (furniture, art, foods, cloths, and pharmacy or retailer as a matter of fact) but do for others (custom cars, electronics, etc). In my choice of silencers I'll forgo old school craftsmanship for reliability and repeatability any day. Everyone else is free to do as they wish, I'm just saying this is one thread where:

The OP couldn't get ahold of the small mfg
He returned the product once already
Has an end cap strike
Ran into two mounts of the same type/product that were dimensionally incompatible
Has to send the host in to have it custom fit/confirmed
Has a can with huge finish flaws, I refuse to believe a failure like that is normal, that's thumb and fingers right there

Show me a surefire/AAC/KAC/silencerco/even a gemtech thread that has that many issues with one can. I'm not saying Liberty won't take care of OP, they will, I'm sure of it, they do seem to have excellent service. My points are that the small mfg is not for me. I worked for a small mfg of non-gun stuff, now we're a large one. I'd prefer our new products in terms of quality and consistancy over the old any day of the week. I'd consider a small mfg if it was a niche product I guess.

Just so we're all on the same page here. Two of the people against my opinion are small mfgs, and one guy just debated and stuck with YHM cans over AAC because of the $300 difference. Like I said though, I'm not trying to convince anyone just tossing some experience out there.

Is it better to have excellent service but be more likely to have to use it? Or to have just good service but rarely need it? I'd opt for the latter.

If your theory is true,,,,,,,(not)

Look mama two hands!




One hand.




Also,

Maybe the different size mount was to try to fix the fit on the DPMS barrel. Could be shoulder issue.

people here have complain about AAC and Silencerco not getting back to them quickly either!

He has short barrel 556, not the best to stable, DPMS barrel, not the best either. Any big CO. would want to see the upper also and they have done this too so I see no different from large CO. with baffle strikes.

Toro pucky.

[T_Tactical]

I'm not trying to convince anyone, just saying my thoughts because I've been here before. I wouldn't buy a SILENCER from a small company, the same warnings don't hold true for all areas (furniture, art, foods, cloths, and pharmacy or retailer as a matter of fact) but do for others (custom cars, electronics, etc). In my choice of silencers I'll forgo old school craftsmanship for reliability and repeatability any day. Everyone else is free to do as they wish, I'm just saying this is one thread where:

The OP couldn't get ahold of the small mfg
He returned the product once already
Has an end cap strike
Ran into two mounts of the same type/product that were dimensionally incompatible
Has to send the host in to have it custom fit/confirmed
Has a can with huge finish flaws, I refuse to believe a failure like that is normal, that's thumb and fingers right there

Show me a surefire/AAC/KAC/silencerco/even a gemtech thread that has that many issues with one can. I'm not saying Liberty won't take care of OP, they will, I'm sure of it, they do seem to have excellent service. My points are that the small mfg is not for me. I worked for a small mfg of non-gun stuff, now we're a large one. I'd prefer our new products in terms of quality and consistancy over the old any day of the week. I'd consider a small mfg if it was a niche product I guess.

Just so we're all on the same page here. Two of the people against my opinion are small mfgs, and one guy just debated and stuck with YHM cans over AAC because of the $300 difference. Like I said though, I'm not trying to convince anyone just tossing some experience out there.

Is it better to have excellent service but be more likely to have to use it? Or to have just good service but rarely need it? I'd opt for the latter.

Actually we're not all on the same page because you seem to think two people are obviously disagreeing with you only because they are small business owners themselves and you think I'm only disagreeing with you because of $300 bucks. What do they know, they're only small business owners with experience of operating a small business and I have no clue what I'm talking about because I listed some pros and cons of two different cans I own and have experience with. You really are a master debater aren't you?

You tried to say large companies don't have problems but you were proven wrong. You said they have better QC but again you were proven wrong. Whats next, you gonna say small companies are no good because the military doesn't use them?