K Baffle Design (by 16 year old)

Yes, it can be legal to make a silencer. For everything Form-1, from silencer designs that are easily made, to filing forms with the BATF, to 3D modeling. Remember, you must have an approved BATF Form-1 to make a silencer. All NFA laws apply.

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st33ve0
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Post by st33ve0 »

tnrcboatracer wrote:I'm in TN. THe line I work on is product specific, and makes automobile engine components.

The 9 axis machine I referred to is a MAZAK Integrex 100-IV ST. It's a $500K machining center (without tooling). You can google it, or look it up at MAZAKUSA.com.

I have several processes on my 7 year old line that a total tolerance window of 16 microns (machining high silicon aluminum). In order to get this level of accuracy, we often gage the part while machining it. We have touch probes that go to a known reference point, and adjust the work offsets based on the sensor feedback. This compensates for the heating of the ball screws in the axis. We also flood cool every thing. The parts are the same temp as the coolant.

We also have several central coolant systems (43,000 gals on my line). The total coolant systems in out plant are about 150,000 gals. We use air gages to measure the critical dimensions.

Some of our critical steel parts are ground to within 3 microns, and then micro polished to within 0.5 microns.

It's amazing what you can do with a few hundred million $$$ in capital.
I did not even know 9 axis machines existed until your first post in this thread lol...how many are rotational? Where in TN are you?
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Post by bob332 »

tnrcboatracer wrote:I'm in TN. THe line I work on is product specific, and makes automobile engine components.

The 9 axis machine I referred to is a MAZAK Integrex 100-IV ST. It's a $500K machining center (without tooling). You can google it, or look it up at MAZAKUSA.com.

I have several processes on my 7 year old line that a total tolerance window of 16 microns (machining high silicon aluminum). In order to get this level of accuracy, we often gage the part while machining it. We have touch probes that go to a known reference point, and adjust the work offsets based on the sensor feedback. This compensates for the heating of the ball screws in the axis. We also flood cool every thing. The parts are the same temp as the coolant.

We also have several central coolant systems (43,000 gals on my line). The total coolant systems in out plant are about 150,000 gals. We use air gages to measure the critical dimensions.

Some of our critical steel parts are ground to within 3 microns, and then micro polished to within 0.5 microns.

It's amazing what you can do with a few hundred million $$$ in capital.
well hell, wish i was in TN and be able to offer you a couple hundred $$$ for some time....excellent about that stuff, all cnc stuff amazes me, even the small bench setups
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wolf
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Post by wolf »

daschnoz wrote:
bob332 wrote: too bad if we do a f1 can we have to be present or i am sure people would be pouring in and have a can in 15mins + cam time. got some pics of that bad boy?
What are the legalities around this?

Have the part made - all but the hole in the middle (kind of like the 80% receivers we used to be able to buy). It's kind of hard to get a normal bullet to pass through metal. If you have access to a lathe, you could then chuck up the almost complete beffle and bore the hole - finishing the part, making it what it is supposed to be, with your F1 in your hand. All of the tricky detail work is done on a CNC machine.

Thoughts??????
I think its the part from ATF about "with the intent "a bit hard to run from that :?
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Post by tnrcboatracer »

9 axis includes a main spindle, a powered auxiliarly spindle where the tail stock would normally be, a powered lower turret, and a 3 axis (X,Y, wrist angle) machining head. I think that adds up to 9. (1+1+3+4)

The machine I have access to is actually in FL.

Intent is what can make an aluminum rod or steel billet into a controlled item.
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Post by st33ve0 »

tnrcboatracer wrote:Intent is what can make an aluminum rod or steel billet into a controlled item.
And that's a good thing because at my university we probably have a couple centuries sentences worth of "controlled items". Including a muffler that was made for an air compressor.
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Post by bob332 »

tnrcboatracer wrote: Intent is what can make an aluminum rod or steel billet into a controlled item.
intent can also get you years in club fed by the atf... :( unless you do your own f1 or some uppers and lowers (lowers for yourself only) i wouldn't do anything for anybody that isn't there in person, especially now since you put it out there. but again, pics of it in progress would be cool.
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Post by tnrcboatracer »

What I was trying to say was anyone with an aluminum rod cannot be arrested for 'intent' to make an illegal silencer. If there is a legitimate alternate use for the item, just because it can be modified into a controlled item does not make it a controlled item. For example, valve spring retainters; some folks use them for a blast shield in a silencer, but simply selling/having a valve spring retainers is not illegal. Just because something can be modified into something that is controlled, does not make the manufacturer laible for the misuse of the item. Now if I include a drawing on how to modify the item, or otherwise express the ability to modify the item into an illegal use, that would be another matter.

Have you ever noticed how some candle holders look like a K baffle?
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Post by hotbrass »

tnrcboatracer wrote:What I was trying to say was anyone with an aluminum rod cannot be arrested for 'intent' to make an illegal silencer. If there is a legitimate alternate use for the item, just because it can be modified into a controlled item does not make it a controlled item. For example, valve spring retainters; some folks use them for a blast shield in a silencer, but simply selling/having a valve spring retainers is not illegal. Just because something can be modified into something that is controlled, does not make the manufacturer laible for the misuse of the item. Now if I include a drawing on how to modify the item, or otherwise express the ability to modify the item into an illegal use, that would be another matter.

Have you ever noticed how some candle holders look like a K baffle?
The ATF is not casual, your discussion here could be construed as intent if the ATF decided to look at your "candle holder", or collection of "valve spring retainers." You may not get arrested, but you may get their attention.
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Post by bob332 »

tnrcboatracer wrote:What I was trying to say was anyone with an aluminum rod cannot be arrested for 'intent' to make an illegal silencer. If there is a legitimate alternate use for the item, just because it can be modified into a controlled item does not make it a controlled item. For example, valve spring retainters; some folks use them for a blast shield in a silencer, but simply selling/having a valve spring retainers is not illegal. Just because something can be modified into something that is controlled, does not make the manufacturer laible for the misuse of the item. Now if I include a drawing on how to modify the item, or otherwise express the ability to modify the item into an illegal use, that would be another matter.

Have you ever noticed how some candle holders look like a K baffle?
as stated, this is the atf we are talking about - not level headed people. just like i would never have a barrel shorter than 16.1" in my pssession unless i had a pistol lower or sbr lower even though i would never build a weapon illegally. intent could be considered that having the info on the computer verfied by ip addresses and history that you indeed intend on making a can from those billets of Al, even though you don't have a lathe but have access to one. i am just saying, never chance w/ the atf. if they spent more time on true criminals we would all be much better off, but they go for the easy, as in non trouble makers. i guess it is easier to make a criminal out of somebody who has no interest in being a criminal than to deal w/ real criminals -> think cav arms....speaking of cav arms, anybody every know what happend w/ that?
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Post by tnrcboatracer »

Well, all 24 of my Ti valve spring retainers are in my 300ZX. Just to be clear, I have no intention of making any parts for of a can until I get my F1. Is there a link to the ATF regulations regarding suppressor parts, etc? It looks like I stand corrected in my interpretation of a non-functional raw component. I guess the rules are what they are, they don't have to make sense.
Last edited by tnrcboatracer on Wed Sep 10, 2008 9:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
bob332
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Post by bob332 »

tnrcboatracer wrote:Well, all 24 of my Ti valve spring retainers are in my 300ZX. Just to be clear, I have no intention of making any parts for of a can until I get my F1. Is there a link to the ATF regulations regarding suppressor parts, etc?
somebody will correct me if i am wrong, but i am pretty sure that w/ a f1 can, you get 1 chance to make it. no swapping out baffles or anything like that after the can is made and no testing to see what baffles work better, so there really is no "parts" except the can itself. no extras as far as i know.
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Post by paco ramirez »

This thread hasn't been updated in quite a while. I'm working on a couple projects, and I'll be posting the finished models here for viewing. These models won't be available for distribution though. I won't say what they are until their done, and it might be a while due to the complexity of the parts. I'm trying to finish one of the models in 2-3 weeks depending on what goes on at school and what not. A couple other models I'll be making are the KAC USP Tactical can and the KAC MP5 can, but I won't be sharing those either. From now on it's only pictures of manufacturers cans, and no distribution of the models (sorry).
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Post by modifiedmcs »

. I'm from So. Cal. Paco, you could try and get an internship with Surefire. They're located in Fountain Valley. And they make suppressors.
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Post by paco ramirez »

modifiedmcs wrote:. I'm from So. Cal. Paco, you could try and get an internship with Surefire. They're located in Fountain Valley. And they make suppressors.
I'm more of an AAC/Georgia person :lol:
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Post by paco ramirez »

I assume everyone knows what it is. Someone get Hemi in here :lol:



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tat007
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Post by tat007 »

Paco, you're very skillful with 3D drawing.

I think you can earn money from drawing these 3D.
" Hearing Protection "
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CAD WORK?

Post by JRitcheyTactical »

Hey I stumbled upon this when doing a google search for CAD related details for my project.

Although my need isn't for suppressors I do need a guy like you to build me accurate CAD drawings for a CNC and prototyping process.

I need the following items (i can ship to you) created as cad files.

Trigger
Safety Switch
Bolt
Extractor
and mag catch

Jared
paco ramirez
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Post by paco ramirez »

Sent you a second PM.

Here's to 38 thousand thread views :lol:
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Post by tacticalmachining.com »

paco ramirez wrote:Sent you a second PM.

Here's to 38 thousand thread views :lol:
Paco, we finally paid for our SOT and got a few more machines. We have about 1000 AR lowers sitting on the floor and the offer is still good to send you some free samples as soon as you can receive them from an FFL. I ship AR lowers to CA but I don't know what you can build on them there and keep on the good side of the Kommies.

I brought some Ti and 304 stainless tube to the shop today to play with.

We have a few projects on the cnc lathe but it will be available for baffle making within a month. We put the AR lower machining on the new VF4 and the VF2 ss is being used for fixture making for the little pallet changer (For lower parts kits).

Let me know if you have a basic can you would like to see manufactured. My web site is the same as my user name.

Great work!
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Post by paco ramirez »

Thanks Jim! I'll be sending you a PM soon with some ideas. Do you have pictures/videos of your machines in action? I believe I have a simple can that might do well. I'm still putting thought into it.
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Post by tacticalmachining.com »

paco ramirez wrote:Thanks Jim! I'll be sending you a PM soon with some ideas. Do you have pictures/videos of your machines in action? I believe I have a simple can that might do well. I'm still putting thought into it.
We have the SOT in hand and are looking at several designs. We cant get much time on the little barfeeder so we are going to buy an SL20 Haas to make suppressors on. It will have live tooling so we can turn the core, thread it, cut the mono baffles and drop a finished core.

We are selling the 80% lowers like crazy. We have a determination latter from ATF ruling them as a non firearm item.

I'll try and get some pictures of the machines making the lower receivers. The pallet changer has some really nice fixtures on it right now making hammers and triggers.
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Post by Tanasoo »

I just read through this thread. Looks like I'm not the only guy that was designing cans in solidworks at a young age! I kind of fell out of it from the whole not being old enough to make one thing. It looks like you kept on it so good job!

I now work at a brand new 07/02 FFL and the boss wants some can designs so I've been on a crash course in the art of silence trying to come up with some good designs and I wish I had kept on working on them :lol:

Hopefully soon you can get some of your designs built and get to test them out. (you may have to more to a real FREE state :P ) Good luck!
paco ramirez
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Post by paco ramirez »

tacticalmachining.com wrote:We have the SOT in hand and are looking at several designs. We cant get much time on the little barfeeder so we are going to buy an SL20 Haas to make suppressors on. It will have live tooling so we can turn the core, thread it, cut the mono baffles and drop a finished core.

We are selling the 80% lowers like crazy. We have a determination latter from ATF ruling them as a non firearm item.

I'll try and get some pictures of the machines making the lower receivers. The pallet changer has some really nice fixtures on it right now making hammers and triggers.
Very cool :D

I found the FFL, and I'll send you info within the week. Pictures would be great.
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Post by paco ramirez »

Tanasoo wrote:I just read through this thread. Looks like I'm not the only guy that was designing cans in solidworks at a young age! I kind of fell out of it from the whole not being old enough to make one thing. It looks like you kept on it so good job!

I now work at a brand new 07/02 FFL and the boss wants some can designs so I've been on a crash course in the art of silence trying to come up with some good designs and I wish I had kept on working on them :lol:

Hopefully soon you can get some of your designs built and get to test them out. (you may have to more to a real FREE state :P ) Good luck!
Thanks :D

I'm heading to GA within the year.
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Post by paco ramirez »

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