Question on 07FFL and Class 3 SOT rules

Yes, it can be legal to make a silencer. For everything Form-1, from silencer designs that are easily made, to filing forms with the BATF, to 3D modeling. Remember, you must have an approved BATF Form-1 to make a silencer. All NFA laws apply.

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icentropy
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Question on 07FFL and Class 3 SOT rules

Post by icentropy »

Hi all. I will most likely be getting a FFL and class 3 SOT this year and wanted to understand how that applies to suppressors and other NFA items. I understand I'll be able to manufacture and sell them BUT what are the rules on what I can do with them? I assume since I'm the business owner I can shoot, use them without issues but what about my wife? could she shoot or hold the items I make? could she if I was with her at the range? What happens to those items if i decide to relinquish my FFL license and Class 3 SOT status? do I get to keep them or do i now need a tax stamp for them all?

Thanks for any info on the subject.
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Capt. Link.
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Re: Question on 07FFL and Class 3 SOT rules

Post by Capt. Link. »

icentropy wrote:Hi all. I will most likely be getting a FFL and class 3 SOT this year and wanted to understand how that applies to suppressors and other NFA items. I understand I'll be able to manufacture and sell them BUT what are the rules on what I can do with them? I assume since I'm the business owner I can shoot, use them without issues but what about my wife? could she shoot or hold the items I make? could she if I was with her at the range? What happens to those items if i decide to relinquish my FFL license and Class 3 SOT status? do I get to keep them or do i now need a tax stamp for them all?

Thanks for any info on the subject.
02 manufacturer 07 SOT not sure what class 3 SOT is.This group has lots to share but you need to do some homework if you wish responses.
You need to read the big book after you read the definition of words used by the BATFE.
Under current rules you must be in control of any NFA item at all times.
Do you truly think the Feds are going to give you a TAX free gift when you retire?
-CL
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
icentropy
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Re: Question on 07FFL and Class 3 SOT rules

Post by icentropy »

Capt. Link. wrote:
icentropy wrote:Hi all. I will most likely be getting a FFL and class 3 SOT this year and wanted to understand how that applies to suppressors and other NFA items. I understand I'll be able to manufacture and sell them BUT what are the rules on what I can do with them? I assume since I'm the business owner I can shoot, use them without issues but what about my wife? could she shoot or hold the items I make? could she if I was with her at the range? What happens to those items if i decide to relinquish my FFL license and Class 3 SOT status? do I get to keep them or do i now need a tax stamp for them all?

Thanks for any info on the subject.
02 manufacturer 07 SOT not sure what class 3 SOT is.This group has lots to share but you need to do some homework if you wish responses.
You need to read the big book after you read the definition of words used by the BATFE.
Under current rules you must be in control of any NFA item at all times.
Do you truly think the Feds are going to give you a TAX free gift when you retire?
-CL
oh you are right, I got the class 2 and 3 mixed up. So it's an 07 FFL and Class 2 SOT.

I figured the status of the NFA items would change if/when I eventually drop the FFL and SOT status but that may not be the case for decades as I'm pretty far from retirement. :D who knows the HPA might even have passed by then :roll: .....or anything that goes bang might be illegal.....never know what to expect these days.

I did want to understand a bit more about who specifically needs to be in control and what in control means (being at the range with the person at arms reach?) or the item has to be in my hands only. I assume that the same rules apply to existing suppressors which from what I understand is if the owner of the suppressor is present then the suppressor can be loaned to a fellow shooter that is shooting with him/her. So if my wife and I are taking a AR class for example we could both be running SBRs with suppressors that belong to the business even if we're not within 2 feet of each other or something like that. From what I can tell though it's legal to "conduct business" at my own facility as well as a gun show or "event". I'm wondering if AR and handgun courses qualify as events. I'm just trying to get the rules figured out ahead of time as I plan on applying in the fall and just wanted to get some preliminary figuring done.
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Sergeant
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Re: Question on 07FFL and Class 3 SOT rules

Post by Sergeant »

If you apply for an 07/SOT the BATF wants you to be engaged in a real business, not for personal use. They are pretty serious about this point. If you apply you need to be serious about turning a prophet because between the SOT and ITAR you will be shelling out from $2750 to $3250 every year....
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John A.
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Re: Question on 07FFL and Class 3 SOT rules

Post by John A. »

ATF has pretty strict rules as to where you can sell guns.

For instance, an FFL cannot sell their guns at a yard sale. Out of the trunk of their car at the local strip mall.

They cannot sell a gun at a gun show outside of the state where their their license is in (unless they have more than one license in different states).

Typically a sanctioned gun show within your state is fine.

And your license address only.
I don't care what your chart says
icentropy
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Re: Question on 07FFL and Class 3 SOT rules

Post by icentropy »

I own and operate a small CNC machine shop and do some aerospace work so ITAR is already in the books. I just decided since I already have to have ITAR and am active with the local LEOs I might as well get the FFL/SOT thing going and see if i can kill two birds with one stone. Expand my business a bit and as a bonus get to make/play with slightly cooler toys than i do now. When you're throwing down over two grand a year for ITAR and dealing with all the paperwork for doing aerospace work, adding a little bit more to get into the FFL thing seems like a decent idea. Especially since aerospace is very cyclical so i have a little more down time than I'd like during parts of the year and If I can keep my machines busy doing something (anything) it's better than nothing. I was wondering how that would affect the ability for the rest of my family to use the firearms I make though. Like my son who is turning 8 years old this year and has been shooting for a few years now. I'd love to cut down his Savage rascal to 6" and make him a .22cal suppressor to mount on it. Would be way more pleasant for him to shoot when we go squirrel hunting. Or I've been wanting to do a suppressed .45acp SBR build that my wife could shoot during her AR courses, but can't stand the fact that for either of those two builds I'd need to deal with two tax stamps. If all i need to do to make it legit is turn a profit, hell since everything I have is already done and in the books all I really need to do is make over $550 a year to cover the tax/license fees. I'd imagine one or two rifle/suppressor combos would take care of that. of course if the ATF agent happens to drive up while my son is shooting a suppressed .22 next to me and takes offense to it or if no one in my family other than myself is allowed to shoot any of the items i make under the 07 ffl even if I'm in the general vicinity, then that'd be kind of a waste of the whole process....Or if we're out in the woods and my son's carrying a suppressed .22LR for squirrels or grouse and we get stopped how does that work? we're not at the business or at an "event" so can either of us be shooting the rifle?
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fishman
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Re: Question on 07FFL and Class 3 SOT rules

Post by fishman »

Not sure if the rules are different for manufacturers, but for regular nfa owners, you can let other people use your items if you are present. You wife cannot just borrow your nfa items and go to a class you aren't present for.

My trust has more than one responsible person. Any trustee can possess the trusts items alone.

MAYBE if she's a legitimate employee. I don't know the manufacturer rules.
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crazyelece
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Re: Question on 07FFL and Class 3 SOT rules

Post by crazyelece »

It would depend on how you set up the FFL. If you use your existing company (corp, llc, etc.) you would need to follow the rules as any other entity. Any responsible party could have possession of any item owned by the entity
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