Novel EU Baffle Design

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Historian
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Novel EU Baffle Design

Post by Historian »

<< https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pY6xpViEMEs >>

Easier to machine than K's? :)

Encouraging that Europeans are innovating.

Fun to see on dull day.
a_canadian
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Re: Novel EU Baffle Design

Post by a_canadian »

What am I not seeing? Looks like the tapered elements are the most innovative design choice, enabling really easy disassembly even if filthy as the inner monocore sleeve taper doesn't need to slide along the monocore. But the short monocore element amounts to basic washers and spacers. That's one of the earliest forms of suppressor, or automotive muffler for that matter. Then they seem to have added a large coaxial volume between the small shielded monocore and the outer tapered tube. Perhaps the expansion into the outer volume after gases exit the monocore is the innovative aspect?
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YugoRPK
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Re: Novel EU Baffle Design

Post by YugoRPK »

All I'm seeing are washers. Looks like a terrible design.
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Re: Novel EU Baffle Design

Post by whiterussian1974 »

Blast chamber vents into volume surrounding the monocore baffles.
Very simple design, easy to mill.
I'd recommend angling the monocore baffles, but that would add an extra couple of steps.
Otherwise, looks simple and I'd like to see how it meters and sounds.
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Capt. Link.
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Re: Novel EU Baffle Design

Post by Capt. Link. »

I would not under estimate the flat baffle in centerfire super sonic application.

1) It feature's two expansion chambers or more correctly a blast chamber plus a coaxial chamber.
2) First coaxial suppressor to use a mono-core.

The large expansive space plus distance between the muzzle and the first baffle take allot of heat and pressure off the baffle stack. That's a good thing as is the mono-core construction will lower construction costs

The tapered elements are pure marketing and adds to over all cost. It reminds me of the butt plug suppressor of a few years ago. https://images.app.goo.gl/Yfewtnu4CfSJ5dx5A

It just a opinion but they could improve performance by simply adding a "slanted sidewall" aka "K dimples" or a second hole in each baffle to increase turbulent conditions.

WR mentioned adding a angle to the baffles. That would work also but also adds yaw to the bullet.

-CL

PS: morning gents....
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!
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Re: Novel EU Baffle Design

Post by a_canadian »

Capt. Link. wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 12:10 pmIt just a opinion but they could improve performance by simply adding a "slanted sidewall" aka "K dimples" or a second hole in each baffle to increase turbulent conditions.
I made an extremely simple 6061 monocore a couple of years ago out of curiosity, as over the years several members here have made similar holes-drilled-in-rod type monocores with various solutions to the clipping problem but I'd never tried it. This was for a bolt action .22lr rifle with a 16.5" barrel.

Image

I tested it first without clipping. It was fairly quiet. Then I got out the Dremel and went to work with a ball carving burr, alternating sides to encourage flow in a zigzag pattern. Could have done something similar with a drill run at 45 degrees through each but that would likely have come out more sloppily. A milling bit and secure jig would have been better, but I wanted more subtle control such that I made sure not to excessively thin any of the edges. After half an hour of tinkering I put it together again and the result was significantly quieter. Nothing miraculous, but it's at the level where shooting it in a small room brings a smile to one's face. Definitely not as quiet as properly made short K baffles of the same length, but very much simpler to keep clean.

Clipping along these lines might help with higher energy rifles such as these EU suppressors have to face, but I suspect they've not clipped the 'washers' of the monocore deliberately to minimize potential surface effects on bullets. Keeping everything symmetrical and just trying to strip away as much gas as is practical is undoubtedly better when trying to maintain a similar POI for hunters who may not always have the suppressor mounted. In the same vein, they've made the lineup all as light as was practical so as to minimize barrel droop. Guess after thinking about the video a little I appreciate the motives behind their design parameters better. Not looking for ultimate quiet, just a nice set of compromises with decent durability.
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Re: Novel EU Baffle Design

Post by Capt. Link. »

I designed a basic monocore called the super simple. This was shared online here and blue prints were available many years back. The idea was so porting /slanted sidewall tech could be added using only basic equipment. The basis is adding a half round "port" to the front top and rear bottom of each chamber wall at a 90* angle. Several were built that worked well in .22 LR. May I suggest a large rat tailed file for uniform porting.

These simple inline monocore suppressors work well but porting makes a large difference. Here is another design known as a offset inline. The builder called it Lumpy as I recall. https://images.app.goo.gl/wgp4vnE6FV2zwfuL9

The straight inline works better in my tests.

-CL
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!
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Historian
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Re: Novel EU Baffle Design

Post by Historian »

Good Captian, I continually marvel at your
innovativeness and enviable machining skills.

Your 'Limpy' design is pure metal art! I smiled that
you had inadvertently created a dual purpose
monocore: Sound reduction; slipping fingers into
the holes what was termed in the 1940s as a "Southie
Irish Knuckle Duster*. :)

Best, Brother.


* << https://www.etsy.com/listing/104105691/ ... _organic=1 >>
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Capt. Link.
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Re: Novel EU Baffle Design

Post by Capt. Link. »

Historian wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 10:05 am Good Captian, I continually marvel at your
innovativeness and enviable machining skills.
Best, Brother.
Lumpy was not designed or made by me, but by another skilled member.
I have made multi purpose suppressors for decades. Overweight designs work well as a Shillelagh when the ammo runs out or possibly for auto repair,demolition etc.

Its the remarkable performance of these simple suppressors that add to a body of information. These suppressors exhibit very high back pressure. Back pressure has been used in the switchback to increase performance. Makes me wonder about applying this with existing design ?
-CL
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!
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Re: Novel EU Baffle Design

Post by 3strucking »

I think we sometimes over complicate things. I know I do. This is a perfect example of a design that can provide adequate suppression and is easy to build.
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Re: Novel EU Baffle Design

Post by 0101silent »

As the Captain said, "
1) It feature's two expansion chambers or more correctly a blast chamber plus a coaxial chamber.
2) First coaxial suppressor to use a mono-core."

I'm sure that the design wasn't shared because it was the end all be all apex design, but to show innovation and to spark new ideas and further innovation.

I'd like to hear it.

I made a 10/22 integral monocore similar to a_canadians above with 45 degree holes.

It was very quiet. The quitest perceived shot from the integral is on par with the loudest perceived shot from a nitro piston .22 air rifle.

I had ok initial accuracy followed by progressively worse accuracy followed by wild shots. After cleaning the original accuracy would return.

There were several compounding factors to the inaccuracy.

The cause of the wild shots were filth quickly accumulating near the muzzle. The other was bullets being disturbed by filth that accumulated in the bore of the monocore along the sharp edges.

I'm sure that the chamber, crown, long monocore, maybe bullet instability played a role too, but I couldn't test the barrel separately with a one stamp integral.
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Re: Novel EU Baffle Design

Post by whiterussian1974 »

0101silent wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 11:11 am I'm sure that the chamber, crown, long monocore, maybe bullet instability played a role too, but I couldn't test the barrel separately with a one stamp integral.
If you test fired the rifle prior to shortening the barrel and adding the monocore, then you should have a baseline.

The crown may have some influence, but the chamber is unaltered, and when you clean the monocore, you have a 2nd baseline for accuracy.
Did the original pattern change much when you first added the monocore? How did it change? Stringing? Or just a wild "shotgun" pattern?
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Re: Novel EU Baffle Design

Post by 0101silent »

If I remember correctly, until it got hot and dirty the pattern was like a .410 with an extra full choke. Then it would suddenly throw fliers. Then it progressed to patterns several feet wide at 50 yards.

It was an ambitious project for a new lathe owner and someone that never soldered or welded anything.

I took off the original barrel. I used a Kidd pistol barrel, cut it to about 5", back bored to slightly less than 4".

I attempted to silver solder the barrel to the core, foolishly ignored the Captain's soldering advice because I didn't have the correct set-up. I failed at soldering while giving the muzzle tremendous heat in single digit temperatures which caused hardening.

I pinned and welded the core.

The match grade chamber rarely extracted a live round. I didn't have the correct numbered drill bit :wink: so I ordered a .22lr sporter chamber reamer. It didn't make big difference in accuracy but it made the rifle much safer.

Several years later I chambered the unused piece of Kidd barrel and pinned and welded it.

The new barrel isn't backbored and its easier to clean the muzzle.

I tested it once, but not thoroughly. It did ok.
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Re: Novel EU Baffle Design

Post by Capt. Link. »

0101silent:
I remember the Slant build and thought it to be a high end idea. I have done a fair amount of research on these suppressors and am interested in how they behave and share this information so its not lost.
My apologies to a_canadian for posting his results on round chambered monocores and porting without recognition and thanks for his studies.

Muzzle crowns are highly important to accuracy. I can see the muzzle becoming distorted during the pinning process causing inaccuracy. These simple suppressors built with generous bore/chamber sizes rarely cause accuracy problems. I mention this as small chambers enhance free bore boost and possible yaw. Adding a slanted sidewall or other feature that may cause delay of gas exit,may help accuracy because of reduced pressure on the bullets base. A simple modification of porting between the first and second chamber can increase turbulence and reduce free bore boost pressure. Oversized bore holes may possibly help as I used 300 and have not had issues.

I would like to help fix the problems you are having give me shout.
-CL
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!
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Re: Novel EU Baffle Design

Post by 0101silent »

Thank you again for your help Captain Link.
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Re: Novel EU Baffle Design

Post by Capt. Link. »

0101silent wrote: Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:30 pm If I remember correctly, until it got hot and dirty the pattern was like a .410 with an extra full choke. Then it would suddenly throw fliers. Then it progressed to patterns several feet wide at 50 yards.

It was an ambitious project for a new lathe owner and someone that never soldered or welded anything.

I took off the original barrel. I used a Kidd pistol barrel, cut it to about 5", back bored to slightly less than 4".

I attempted to silver solder the barrel to the core, foolishly ignored the Captain's soldering advice because I didn't have the correct set-up. I failed at soldering while giving the muzzle tremendous heat in single digit temperatures which caused hardening.

I pinned and welded the core.

The match grade chamber rarely extracted a live round. I didn't have the correct numbered drill bit :wink: so I ordered a .22lr sporter chamber reamer. It didn't make big difference in accuracy but it made the rifle much safer.

Several years later I chambered the unused piece of Kidd barrel and pinned and welded it.

The new barrel isn't backbored and its easier to clean the muzzle.

I tested it once, but not thoroughly. It did ok.
Dime sized groups are more or less a standard for the 10-22 rifle with a little work. I can prepare a barrel for you including a better chamber cut by a reamer known as a BENTZ. It is a possibility that your KIDD pistol barrel is cut 1-22 instead of 1-16 for rifles.This may affect the accuracy with the bullets being under-stabilized.
Never been a fan of welding anything to a barrel but it can be done without affecting the accuracy. I may do this differently than others but it passes muster with the BATFE.
Last but not least the trigger make a big difference.
Being a gunsmith I like to see and hear about guns that are accurate and dependable. Would be pleased to help if you want it.
-CL
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
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Re: Novel EU Baffle Design

Post by 0101silent »

Capt. Link. wrote: Fri Feb 19, 2021 11:32 am Dime sized groups are more or less a standard for the 10-22 rifle with a little work. I can prepare a barrel for you including a better chamber cut by a reamer known as a BENTZ. It is a possibility that your KIDD pistol barrel is cut 1-22 instead of 1-16 for rifles.This may affect the accuracy with the bullets being under-stabilized.
Never been a fan of welding anything to a barrel but it can be done without affecting the accuracy. I may do this differently than others but it passes muster with the BATFE.
Last but not least the trigger make a big difference.
Being a gunsmith I like to see and hear about guns that are accurate and dependable. Would be pleased to help if you want it.
-CL
Thank you once again Captain Link, I will PM you with details.

I have given a lot of thought on how to improve the design over the years while obeying all the laws, rules, edicts, decisions, etc. and staying far away from any gray areas.

I have a basic plan that is centered around an accurate barrel. It is unique. All the elements have been done before but to my knowledge never in combination.

I believe that you will still be willing to help, or determine that I'm beyond help. :) I think that you'll like the idea.
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