I hope to revolutionize suppressors

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Lunaticspawn
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I hope to revolutionize suppressors

Post by Lunaticspawn »

I hope to revolutionize suppressors with a very simple concept, however I have minimal experience with suppressors and need to converse with those who understand them more and may have an idea whether my concept has potential to work properly and/or actually provide a profound positive impact on how suppressors are designed. I have explained my idea to very close friends and made simple sketches and even crafted a basic design for it but the most important piece of sharing my concept is that I retain all credit for proof of concept and it is pertinent that my idea is not stolen and capitalized; any help toward establishing this properly is appreciated. I truly believe that I have an idea that is almost too good to be true, so I need to verify the legitimacy. I would love to speak to anyone who can seriously help me, and will be happy to share my concept with them after some basic introductions and whatnot.
alordnapa
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Re: I hope to revolutionize suppressors

Post by alordnapa »

I can hear the minds of people out there struggling for the words to respond....
Historian
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Re: I hope to revolutionize suppressors

Post by Historian »

I champion your enthusiasm and wish you success in creating
innovative can improvements that will produce lower Db
readings than present day extra ordinary products, e.g., DeadAir,
Silencer Co., etc.

Starting with your first sentence:
" ...I hope to revolutionize suppressors with a very simple concept,
however I [b]have minimal experience with suppressor[/b]

May I suggest a prerequisite starting point that you need
that will iteratively help you reify your intuition and in turn
give you the technical mindset to interpret the experiences and
tribal wisdom that will be offered.

Sine qua non references that will expose you to the pioneering
efforts of the past which as you digest their contents will
expand and modify your intuitions.

1.." Silencer: History and Performance, Volume 1 & 2:
Sporting and Tactical Silencers Paperback – January 1, 1996;
Silencer: History and Performance, Volume 1: Sporting and Tactical Silencers Paperback – January 1, 1996
Alan C Paulson, et al.

2. "Firearm Suppressor Patents: Volume1: United States Patents"
by Alan C. Paulson, N.R. Parker ... A MUST read!

Perform your due diligence and steep yourself in the collective wisdom over
the many years stored on this site's Silencer Smithing.

Join the NFA Talk site and find a list of many silencer book
PDFs.


A pithy motto from long ago " Why reinvent the flat tire" :)

Your will feast on over a 100 years of development and creativity.
You will find there are just really a few designs but many
variations on the theme.

Long ago a wonderful and inspiring mathematics teacher told the story of a king's son
in antiquity who was tutored in geometry. He asked Euclid if there
were to be an easy way to learn the subject, skipping the tedious
details. As chronicled Euclid said "... there is no Royal Road to learning
geometry".

Best wishes for success and your future sharing.
Lunaticspawn
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Re: I hope to revolutionize suppressors

Post by Lunaticspawn »

Thank you the citations will help me in my quest to see if it has been done before. I appreciate that a lot.
Historian
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Re: I hope to revolutionize suppressors

Post by Historian »

Lunaticspawn, my compliments to you for accepting advice. It
indicates that you are serious about your idea and not a dilettante
who lets mythic thinking override reason.

Some added factoids that will help:

From embarrassingly lost USMC author's name ( forgive me Dick :) ):
"Rule of Thumb of .22 suppressors:

1.0 Internal suppressor volume should be 20 time the internal volume of the bore.
1.2 Entrance chamber should be 40% of free volume of suppressor
1.3 Length should be 6 to 7 times diameter.

2.0 E.g., for 5.56 mm can on 14.5" barrel needs a volume of 11.4 cubic inches.
This means the can dimensions of 1.5" x 9".
[Hmmm,reminiscent of like Walsh's 9mm Hi Power can of long ago :) ]"


Valuable Article from master suppressor designer Douglas Olson
"Qual-A-Etc Suppressors- Douglas Olsen; Small Arms Review VN12 ( November 1997); posted January 26, 2018

<< https://www.smallarmsreview.com/display ... icles=2339 >>

I champion your dedication. History has legions of break throughs by
folks not burdened by consensus of that era. E.g., Carbine Williams creator
M1 Carbine.

Do look up history of Hiriam Percy Maxim ( MIT 1886 )
the demigod of suppressors and car mufflers.
Ref: << https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiram_Percy_Maxim >>

Speaking of Percy, a few years ago after a special select private hunt
the classmate host opened up from his collection a bottle of single malt scotch
"Macallan "M" Crystal Decanter".

First sip was to go to the best story on firearms.
The winner was a brilliant, modest, self-effacing,and humble octogenarian
with the following winning drivel:

"From The Old TESTICLE, the Book of GEM-ESIS-TECH:
In the beginning there was the Big Bang, blinding light
universal deafening noise.
Then Hiram Percy Maxim said "Let there be silence and there was silence''

Maxim saw that the silence was good, and he separated the quiet from the shattering noise.

Henceforth firearms and automobiles were peaceful upon the land"


After being pelted with popcorn the winning author sipped the first ray of highland sunlight. :) :)
DoctorWho
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Re: I hope to revolutionize suppressors

Post by DoctorWho »

Because as was said in Hitchhikers guide to the Galaxy about the inventer of the Quantum Improbability Drive, nobody likes a wise ass.
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design
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Re: I hope to revolutionize suppressors

Post by design »

Hello there.

I've just gone through the US patenting process myself for my own, new silencer design/concept. I learned quite a bit from this experience.

VERY IMPORTANT: DO NOT SHARE YOUR IDEA WITH ANYONE ELSE!
TRACK DOWN EVERYONE YOU'VE TOLD ABOUT IT AND ASK THEM NOT TO DISCUSS THE IDEA WITH ANYONE.

Once upon a time, before the year 2013, an inventor in the USA was able to do something called a "poor man's patent". Previous to 2013, US law was that patents would be awarded to the "first to invent", making this "poor man's patent" thing a viable but crude option. This is no longer the case, as I was very surprised to learn after talking to my lawyers. Since 2013 the law has been changed to "first to file". The US legal system no longer considers who was first to invent something to be of any impotance whatsoever. It's purely about whoever files with the USPTO first, that's it. Anyone, I mean ANYONE who files first will get it and if that isn't you then you're SOL. You have no legal recourse if someone else's name is on an already accepted patent application that describes your design.

The ONLY way to protect your silencer design/concept (or any other inventions) in the USA is by patenting it. That's it.

You can file a patent application on your own, but I strongly discourage you from attempting to do so. Unless you're a lawyer or very, very, very familiar with patent law you'll likely (read: absolutely) do more harm than good. Even if your application is accepted, the language in it might be too specific, easily allowing knock-offs or slight modifications to be made in someone else's own future patent application.

TLDR: if you're serious, better lawyer up ASAP.

PS: how's the studying going? Do you still think your concept will work? What do you think of my design, is yours similar at all? Thread where I'm describing my own design: viewtopic.php?f=10&t=161627
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Capt. Link.
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Re: I hope to revolutionize suppressors

Post by Capt. Link. »

alordnapa wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 1:27 pm I can hear the minds of people out there struggling for the words to respond....
:lol:
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
Historian
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Re: I hope to revolutionize suppressors

Post by Historian »

"Making a Simple Hydrogen Generator from Washers" onYouTUbe

<< https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RY08xO-_11w >>

One man's Making a Simple Hydrogen Generator from Washers
sure is reminiscent of an long ago 'revolutionary patent' for a can.
Just DO NOT try to insert it into a metal can. :)

Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose
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Capt. Link.
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Re: I hope to revolutionize suppressors

Post by Capt. Link. »

Lunaticspawn wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 4:33 am need to converse with those who understand them more and may have an idea whether my concept has potential to work

A decade or more ago I ran across a guy who was so secretive that he never did this. He applied for a patent and was granted it without issue. He was so thrilled with his invention that he obtained a FFL and built a prototype. His patent was to use springs between baffles. Who cares if the UK has had that patent for the last seven decades.
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
Historian
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Re: I hope to revolutionize suppressors

Post by Historian »

Capt. Link. wrote: Tue Jan 04, 2022 6:57 pm
Lunaticspawn wrote: Sat Oct 30, 2021 4:33 am need to converse with those who understand them more and may have an idea whether my concept has potential to work

A decade or more ago I ran across a guy who was so secretive that he never did this. He applied for a patent and was granted it without issue. He was so thrilled with his invention that he obtained a FFL and built a prototype. His patent was to use springs between baffles. Who cares if the UK has had that patent for the last seven decades.
+1!

Springs between a few washers suppewaaoe was also known as 'The French Suppressor' that was a knock off
during WW2 of the venerable Parker Hale MM1. Frankford Arsenal test results it in their Report:
"SILENCERS: Principles And Evaluations: Frankford Arsenal Report R-1896, August, 1968"

The more things change, the more they remain the same.

For those interested a most effective suppressor look for the South African CR21,
two parts ...a snorkel in the first chamber; second short chamber with a baffle. KISS!

The SIONICS rifle suppressor was arguably the most effective WerBel III creative design
that was used long ago in the 'past unpleasantness' in SEA.That design should be studied
for its beautiful engineering and proven accomplishments. As might have been said in Hollywood in the
1940s "it had the best AGENCY representing it." :)

And for .22 rimfire suppressor the esteemed PTK's gem on a 5.5" Ruger barrel is the 'universal'
constant along with the Plank Constant. Try matching this.
<< https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyBNJ_31uQc >>
alordnapa
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Re: I hope to revolutionize suppressors

Post by alordnapa »

My idea was to stack fuel filters between spring potatoes, but an Irish mechanic beat me to it...

Just kidding. My brilliant idea was to make a monocore out of a piece of rifled barrel so the whole thing could be chambered in a 12 or 10 Gauge shotgun, O/U, side by side, single shot, etc. I would be enormously surprised if someone has not already done this. There are more things in heaven and earth than ever dreamt of in my philosophy! ( I did see a guy shooting a 12 Gauge with a pistol caliber adapter, with a crutch tip clamped over his barrel- it worked remarkably well!)
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Capt. Link.
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Re: I hope to revolutionize suppressors

Post by Capt. Link. »

Historian wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 10:43 am
+1!

Springs between a few washers suppewaaoe was also known as 'The French Suppressor' that was a knock off
during WW2 of the venerable Parker Hale MM1. Frankford Arsenal test results it in their Report:
"SILENCERS: Principles And Evaluations: Frankford Arsenal Report R-1896, August, 1968"

The more things change, the more they remain the same.

For those interested a most effective suppressor look for the South African CR21,
two parts ...a snorkel in the first chamber; second short chamber with a baffle. KISS!

The SIONICS rifle suppressor was arguably the most effective WerBel III creative design
that was used long ago in the 'past unpleasantness' in SEA.That design should be studied
for its beautiful engineering and proven accomplishments. As might have been said in Hollywood in the
1940s "it had the best AGENCY representing it." :)

And for .22 rimfire suppressor the esteemed PTK's gem on a 5.5" Ruger barrel is the 'universal'
constant along with the Plank Constant. Try matching this.
<< https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyBNJ_31uQc >>
I knew you would like the French connection.
With all honesty the Werbel cans were awful. His spiral baffles were best left out of the suppressor. I don't think he patented his best contributions in full internal threading and the use of titanium. The HEL cans and Hush Puppy of the era were quiet along with a UN-identified agency supplied 9mm wet can I used in 68.
Its wise to follow the tech in and outside of this country before you spiral into obscurity. Unfortunately education often trumps the best ideas yet helps layout future ones.
-CL
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
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Capt. Link.
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Re: I hope to revolutionize suppressors

Post by Capt. Link. »

alordnapa wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 12:40 pm My idea was to stack fuel filters between spring potatoes, but an Irish mechanic beat me to it...

Just kidding. My brilliant idea was to make a monocore out of a piece of rifled barrel so the whole thing could be chambered in a 12 or 10 Gauge shotgun, O/U, side by side, single shot, etc. I would be enormously surprised if someone has not already done this. There are more things in heaven and earth than ever dreamt of in my philosophy! ( I did see a guy shooting a 12 Gauge with a pistol caliber adapter, with a crutch tip clamped over his barrel- it worked remarkably well!)
I have a modified idea on this where a suppressor is forward mounted in a tube and the rear is chambered for different caliber rifled and chambered barrel stubs. Only the suppressor needs a tax stamp and the SBR SBS are tax free if the tube is over 16-18" in length with a OAL of 26 minimum for the weapon. Think of it as a suppressed M-79 with a unlimited range of cartridge choices.
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
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