a new silencer design concept, now patent pending

[design]

Hello everyone,

I've been lurking on your forum for months now. I feel like I already know many of you. About 6 months ago I had an inspiration for a new type of firearm silencer. It didn't look like anyone had tried anything quite like it before. The original idea was that it would "crash" the hot, explosive gases into each other, making them lose more energy, being a more effective silencer. You probably won't be able to rapid fire with this thing because the sound energy becomes trapped in the walls of the silencer as heat. The more sound a silencer absorbs, the better it works, the hotter it'll become with fewer shots. It'd be great for hunting, or any other applications where there's a decent period of time between shots. I suppose you could always "open it up" more/modify it so that it doesn't work as well (making the shots louder) in order to rapid fire with it.

I immediately wanted to post my idea here, but decided to be cautious instead. Since I live in the USA, in order to build my own silencer I'd have to send the design to the ATF to get my stamp. I decided to try patenting the idea first, before ever making it public. Yes, I decided to try patenting an untested idea, I'm a bit of a maniac (I know you know it, big guy- peek-a-boo, lol). I'm very familiar with explosives, explosions and explosive lensing. I feel rather confident that this idea could be an "overall best" silencer design. I just got patent pending status so my idea is safe in the USA for the next year.

I'm not a rich person, I'm normally able to save some money each month, but not a lot. I'm definitely an underdog that can use all the help he can get. I don't have any connections or anything like that so there's a very good possibility that I wasted a nice chunk of change on protecting this. Well, it's hard to say "wasted" because I've learned so much going through this process. Now that it's legally protected, I'd love to share this design with all of you and see what you think. Good and bad, I'd love any and all feedback.

Some really nice guys taught me the basics of CAD, this is 3 different views of the same thing as I'm taking cross-section screenshots of it. I just put all the screenshots together into one image. This is the original design which illustrates the general concept better than the newer designs.

I believe this original design has a decent potential to be dangerous to use, so please don't ever try this one:
https://ibb.co/D7G7ZNC

It's just a series of concentric tubes with vents, forcing the explosive gas to run through a maze-like configuration to exit the silencer. It goes through a vent into a circular chamber, where it is brought crashing into itself, before being forced through the next vent and into the next chamber. I think having a long vent on the outer tube will also help it be more quiet. One thing about current silencer design, something I think could be improved, is that (usually) the gas ends up being forced out through a hole roughly the same diameter as the gun's barrel. This means the gas has to come back together again to get out of the silencer. Giving it more area to escape through, after traveling a much further distance, should be more effective in my estimation.

Here is the latest version of the design, it turns the potentially dangerous inner barrel into a ported barrel and also adds a layer of wire mesh. By doing the holes/ports at a 45 degree angle, this design would probably also work for shotguns by keeping the plastic plug held together:
https://ibb.co/0nG6kfC

For patents, no dimensions are required. I'm just trying to show you the overall concept. I realize the original design might be too "tight" to really be effective, making the vents and chambers wider could be better.

If anybody wants to build one to test it out for themselves, I'd love for whoever wants to also experiment with this design. As long as you aren't building them to sell, for the next year, you'll have my blessing. You don't have to share your findings with me, but I'll love you for it if you do. I'll be filing my own stamp with the ATF asap. For the inner ported barrel, I was considering using something like EDM for boring those holes at an angle. It'll be tricky, one side should mirror the other side, to ensure even gas distribution and to avoid any potential bullet yaw (better safe than sorry).

Here's another variation on the same theme:
https://ibb.co/gRKyQs4

So, while a typical silencer focuses more on the axial expansion of the gas, this new design focuses more on the radial expansion of the gas. When you play a gun shot in slow motion, you can see that it forms a sideways mushroom cloud. The mushroom cap forms right at the muzzle, while the mushroom stalk follows the path of the bullet. It's an explosion, a high pressure wave, so the gases will travel into any lower pressure areas that are available to them, being pushed by the gases behind them.

If you're a commercial silencer manufacturer and you're hoping that I'll let this expire or go abandoned, keep dreaming. This is my hill to die on, I'm going to lock this thing down for the next 20 years, just as soon as I've verified the design. Initially, I wasn't interested in selling this patent, I was only interested in licensing it. I've had another idea for something different, more $ potential, since learning the CAD basics it's like something in my mind has become "unlocked". I'm definitely open to selling it now so that I can get it off my plate and start working on this next thing. I believe it could be worth a lot of money, especially when looking at the whole automotive muffler aspect of it.

So what do you guys think? I think it'll act like a "hot gas sponge", that's what I think.. There isn't some "silencer design" college text book that's available to consult, I've read other books written by men who have spent decades designing these things. Also the members of this forum, your posts have been incredibly valuable as a source of knowledge. I was going with steel wool before I read on here what a bad idea that ends up being, this was turned to wire mesh. There are other design considerations that I hope you'll notice,

[Capt. Link.]

Hello everyone,

I've been lurking on your forum for months now. I feel like I already know many of you. About 6 months ago I had an inspiration for a new type of firearm silencer. It didn't look like anyone had tried anything quite like it before. The original idea was that it would "crash" the hot, explosive gases into each other, making them lose more energy, being a more effective silencer. You probably won't be able to rapid fire with this thing because the sound energy becomes trapped in the walls of the silencer as heat. The more sound a silencer absorbs, the better it works, the hotter it'll become with fewer shots. It'd be great for hunting, or any other applications where there's a decent period of time between shots. I suppose you could always "open it up" more/modify it so that it doesn't work as well (making the shots louder) in order to rapid fire with it.

I immediately wanted to post my idea here, but decided to be cautious instead. Since I live in the USA, in order to build my own silencer I'd have to send the design to the ATF to get my stamp. I decided to try patenting the idea first, before ever making it public. Yes, I decided to try patenting an untested idea, I'm a bit of a maniac (I know you know it, big guy- peek-a-boo, lol). I'm very familiar with explosives, explosions and explosive lensing. I feel rather confident that this idea could be an "overall best" silencer design. I just got patent pending status so my idea is safe in the USA for the next year.

I'm not a rich person, I'm normally able to save some money each month, but not a lot. I'm definitely an underdog that can use all the help he can get. I don't have any connections or anything like that so there's a very good possibility that I wasted a nice chunk of change on protecting this. Well, it's hard to say "wasted" because I've learned so much going through this process. Now that it's legally protected, I'd love to share this design with all of you and see what you think. Good and bad, I'd love any and all feedback.

Some really nice guys taught me the basics of CAD, this is 3 different views of the same thing as I'm taking cross-section screenshots of it. I just put all the screenshots together into one image. This is the original design which illustrates the general concept better than the newer designs.

I believe this original design has a decent potential to be dangerous to use, so please don't ever try this one:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1eqEz3U ... sp=sharing

It's just a series of concentric tubes with vents, forcing the explosive gas to run through a maze-like configuration to exit the silencer. It goes through a vent into a circular chamber, where it is brought crashing into itself, before being forced through the next vent and into the next chamber. I think having a long vent on the outer tube will also help it be more quiet. One thing about current silencer design, something I think could be improved, is that (usually) the gas ends up being forced out through a hole roughly the same diameter as the gun's barrel. This means the gas has to come back together again to get out of the silencer. Giving it more area to escape through, after traveling a much further distance, should be more effective in my estimation.

Here is the latest version of the design, it turns the potentially dangerous inner barrel into a ported barrel and also adds a layer of wire mesh. By doing the holes/ports at a 45 degree angle, this design would probably also work for shotguns by keeping the plastic plug held together:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1s2ryFJ ... sp=sharing

For patents, no dimensions are required. I'm just trying to show you the overall concept. I realize the original design might be too "tight" to really be effective, making the vents and chambers wider could be better.

If anybody wants to build one to test it out for themselves, I'd love for whoever wants to also experiment with this design. As long as you aren't building them to sell, for the next year, you'll have my blessing. You don't have to share your findings with me, but I'll love you for it if you do. I'll be filing my own stamp with the ATF asap. For the inner ported barrel, I was considering using something like EDM for boring those holes at an angle. It'll be tricky, one side should mirror the other side, to ensure even gas distribution and to avoid any potential bullet yaw (better safe than sorry).

Here's another variation on the same theme:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1uABDiV ... sp=sharing

So, while a typical silencer focuses more on the axial expansion of the gas, this new design focuses more on the radial expansion of the gas. When you play a gun shot in slow motion, you can see that it forms a sideways mushroom cloud. The mushroom cap forms right at the muzzle, while the mushroom stalk follows the path of the bullet. It's an explosion, a high pressure wave, so the gases will travel into any lower pressure areas that are available to them, being pushed by the gases behind them.

If you're a commercial silencer manufacturer and you're hoping that I'll let this expire or go abandoned, keep dreaming. This is my hill to die on, I'm going to lock this thing down for the next 20 years, just as soon as I've verified the design. Initially, I wasn't interested in selling this patent, I was only interested in licensing it. I've had another idea for something different, more $ potential, since learning the CAD basics it's like something in my mind has become "unlocked". I'm definitely open to selling it now so that I can get it off my plate and start working on this next thing. I believe it could be worth a lot of money, especially when looking at the whole automotive muffler aspect of it.

So what do you guys think? I think it'll act like a "hot gas sponge", that's what I think.. There isn't some "silencer design" college text book that's available to consult, I've read other books written by men who have spent decades designing these things. Also the members of this forum, your posts have been incredibly valuable as a source of knowledge. I was going with steel wool before I read on here what a bad idea that ends up being, this was turned to wire mesh. There are other design considerations that I hope you'll notice,

Apply for a F1 stamp and build a prototype as soon as possible.
I think the E file system is up, you could have a stamp before the week is out.

[design]

Apply for a F1 stamp and build a prototype as soon as possible.
I think the E file system is up, you could have a stamp before the week is out.

Hi Captain. I consider a message as short and sweet from you a bit of a compliment, I have nothing but respect for you and many of the others here. You could easily write a book on making silencers, imo. You guys don't know me yet, but I'll help change that. If my original message sounded confident, you should know I was absolutely terrified when posting it. I had to take several deep breaths and just hit that button. I was high as balls on some anti-anxiety stuff when I wrote and posted that. I prefer remaining anonymous, I prefer to be able to easily disconnect all of my online activity from my IRL-life. I'm a very private person who has no desire at all to ever become famous. I avoid all social media. You cannot file a patent under a pseudonym so posting that message was like "crossing the Rubicon" for me. "The cave you fear to enter holds the treasure that you seek." Joseph Campbell. "Fear is the mind killer." Frank Herbert.

I'm just glad it's done now.

Failing over and over and over does breed its own sort of confidence. Eventually failure doesn't even sting anymore. You wind up gaining a shitload of experience, you end up learning when and where you need to go get help. Most people these days are so afraid of failure that they don't even try. Analysis paralysis. Turning over stones and finding nothing IS progress. It's like I'm an old man in a fairly young man's body.

I'm good at dealing with concepts and solving problems in unique or elegant ways, but I've never built a silencer before. I don't have too much experience with metal working or machining but I do know about the different methods for making metal take shape. I could sure use this forum's help and advice.

For wall thickness, I was thinking ~2mm, something like that. Probably 2mm, or do you think that's too thick? Too thin? Overall OD should be at least 1.25", I was going to build this for a Beretta 92FS 9mm. I can use standard NPT pipes in 3/8", 0.75" and 1.25". I was just going to buy a threaded barrel, I'm not going to try threading a barrel myself. Unless someone knows a trick for making those threads perfect? I find tapping easier than "die-ing", I'm sure most people are the same.

For holding the pipes in place, I was thinking about using spacers like giant, thick washers. They can lock into the vents to hold the vents in place. Another way would be designing the end caps so they hold them in place by their vent. If the end cap is holding them then the end cap won't be able to turn, it can't be a screw. It'd have to be held in place with pins or rivets or something like that. Maybe do it that way, but allow the operator the ability to change the locations/orientations of the vents. Rather that making a vent 180 degrees from the last vent, maybe make it 200 (or whatever). Make it configurable so different configurations can be tested. A series of metal tabs in the end cap that can "lock" into notches in the pipe?

Here is a simple illustration that shows what I mean by the notched tube and end cap, in the illustration I'm just using 3 notches per tube, but if I actually make it this way I'll probably use 6-12 notches per tube to be able to try more variations: https://ibb.co/vXZcNQx

I guess I could always use spacers initially and design a different end cap later, and put notches in those tubes later too. Why not do both, eh? Is it illegal to modify the design that much later on?

Some pipes are manufactured with a welded seam going down them, I think this should be avoided on this design. I'm sure that it'd be fine for many shots, but that can lead to a false sense of security. I believe the heat and pressure will eventually compromise the welded seam in the pipe, I think these pipes should be avoided for this design. Unless someone has used welded pipe for a silencer before and it turned out okay?

[Capt. Link.]

While you are waiting for the stamp I can suggest that you use short sections of tubing on either end of your core to provide indexing & spacing between layers. Might as well draw up the design for BATFE along with a detailed description at this point.

[Historian]

Thank you for showing.

Design is simple, elegant, and with you 'maize' rotations
of slits might get a fluid logic effect.

A fillip you might also consider in your patent application a variation
in the design to say that it can be manufactured from a single sheet of
metal coiled like a 'chocolate swill roll cake'; in addition to concentric
tubes.

Example thin steel sheet flashing.
This can be made with shears by cutting a long rectangle and then cutting it
into a trapezoid ( "The Terrible Trapezoid"* ) design
which in turn creates an expansion dome.

Fun name could be "Minotaur Labýrinthos" to confuse the gases.

Best.



*<< https://mrhonner.wordpress.com/2012/05/ ... trapezoid/ >>

[design]

A fillip you might also consider in your patent application a variation
in the design to say that it can be manufactured from a single sheet of
metal coiled like a 'chocolate swill roll cake'; in addition to concentric
tubes.

Example thin steel sheet flashing.
This can be made with shears by cutting a long rectangle and then cutting it
into a trapezoid ( "The Terrible Trapezoid"* ) design
which in turn creates an expansion dome.

Thanks Historian. The very first (bad?) design I thought of was like one giant, gas operated spring. I eventually concluded that having a silencer with moving parts might be a bad idea. Depending on the ammo and firearm, wouldn't you need to "calibrate" the spring tension? Also, wouldn't the movement also add to the noise it makes?

The spiral idea is a good one, but I'm not sure how important making the silencer symmetrical is. If you do the ported barrel running down through the center of the "swiss roll cake", then can you only port the barrel on one side? If you did both left and right sides, then one side would be closer to a wall than the other, one side might bounce more gas back into the ported barrel than the other. It's not a bad idea, I'm just not as confident in the swiss roll cake as I am the more symmetrical "gas crashing" idea.

Like this, right? https://ibb.co/FBD2Q6K

I think I'd certainly love working/designing for a commercial silencer manufacturer, I think I've caught "the bug". Being able to experiment with this stuff all day, could there be a better job than that? I use both solidworks and fusion360... The whole goal of this patent that I've filed was to make a more easily manufactured, functionally superior (or at least functionally equal) silencer.

I've been thinking about how to do the tests with this thing legally but for less money than what it would normally cost. I'm not too far from the Mexican border. What if I contacted someone south of the border, paid them to build my design, made a trip down there to film and record the tests with it? As long as nothing comes back across the border with me, I should (legally speaking) be free and clear in the USA. I hope? I think at that point they wouldn't even try. It becomes too much effort to get something so small.

[design]

Does anyone know a good online store to buy seamless stainless steel tubing in different sizes? I've found everything I need through onlinemetals.com but I feel like the prices they're asking are a little to high for 12" sections of pipe. I'd like to buy 2 foot sections, if possible, it would allow a few attempts for the different machining methods required for each of them. Anyone know of something like onlinemetals.com but a little cheaper?

[0101silent]

I've been thinking about how to do the tests with this thing legally but for less money than what it would normally cost. I'm not too far from the Mexican border. What if I contacted someone south of the border, paid them to build my design, made a trip down there to film and record the tests with it? As long as nothing comes back across the border with me, I should (legally speaking) be free and clear in the USA. I hope? I think at that point they wouldn't even try. It becomes too much effort to get something so small.

File multiple Form 1s. Make each revision on a new form 1. You can file as many times as needed and as frequently as your budget allows. Don't cheat. You can legally contract an american company with the proper licensing to recore any form 1 silencers that need recored. Don't cheat.

[design]

File multiple Form 1s. Make each revision on a new form 1. You can file as many times as needed and as frequently as your budget allows. Don't cheat. You can legally contract an american company with the proper licensing to recore any form 1 silencers that need recored. Don't cheat.

I appreciate that input, I'm going to try something else first. I won't cheat, you don't have to worry about that.