.22 long barrel and 9mm Pistol

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Datio
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.22 long barrel and 9mm Pistol

Post by Datio » Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:39 pm

Hello.
I have been reading the forums for quite some time and have never posted. Everyone generally seems like a great help and it is refreshing to see some maturity these days.
I am looking at two different scenarios and was wondering how each specific scenario would best be accomplished. I have searched for quite some time on here, and other forums, but have found so much conflicting information. I'm sure it was less conflicting and more confusing because of my general lack of understanding the basics, so I apologize in advance to ask what I am sure you have answered 100 times.

I have the ability to do Monocores and baffle style. M baffles and cones are easy for us. K baffles not so much. I only have a Harbor Freight lathe, so lathing is still newish and somewhat hard to me, beyond simply taking stock off a section. I do have a CNC mill that makes milling a bit easier.

So I would like to do a simple .22 style for a rifle and a 9MM style for a pistol, but also be able to swap over to a 9mm Kel-Tec sub 2000. Obviously, paperwork is needed, but before I file, (and even before that) I would like to figure out my best approach for both options, so I can source pricing and materials and plan. I understand the builds are different for sub versus sonic rounds, but is there a good overall or is it better to build it for a specific round type?

I have so much more to say and ask, but I want to keep it simple for right now.

Any thoughts would be helpful.

Thank You.

-Datio

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Capt. Link.
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Re: .22 long barrel and 9mm Pistol

Post by Capt. Link. » Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:28 pm

I would strongly recommend building a .22 suppressor first. These are easy to suppress and having success with the first one builds confidence. Optimum material is stainless steel for its resistance to corrosion, other materials will work fine. You can use almost any baffle type but would lean towards K type or you might build a monocore. What do you have in mind.
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895

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T-Rex
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Re: .22 long barrel and 9mm Pistol

Post by T-Rex » Mon Jan 24, 2022 1:54 pm

Datio wrote:
Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:39 pm
before I file, (and even before that) I would like to figure out my best approach
Personally, I'd file now and get the paperwork moving. There's nothing illegal about this and you can always amend an unbuilt form.
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Datio
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Re: .22 long barrel and 9mm Pistol

Post by Datio » Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:58 pm

I thought you had to have a basic design and sketch before you file? Is that not so? If not, then I could start my paperwork now. I'm not too concerned with time, as I am not in a rush.

Datio

Datio
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Re: .22 long barrel and 9mm Pistol

Post by Datio » Mon Jan 24, 2022 9:07 pm

Capt. Link. wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 12:28 pm
I would strongly recommend building a .22 suppressor first. These are easy to suppress and having success with the first one builds confidence. Optimum material is stainless steel for its resistance to corrosion, other materials will work fine. You can use almost any baffle type but would lean towards K type or you might build a monocore. What do you have in mind.
Monocores do look very easy and well within my ability. what tube inside diameter do you suggest, length overall, and the amount and spacing of baffles?

I was thinking for a 22 monocore, about an inch inside diameter with about 4 1/2 to 5 inch chamber for the baffles. And if that is sufficient, about how many and is spacing important? I would think that the more baffles the better. It would be so much easier to do, and I'd be less cautious about getting it right the first time, If I could just scrap pieces that don't work and try again.

I would really like to do K baffles, but I'm not sure how to yet. Do you think a "two piece" k Baffle is feasible? If I were to machine a cone, I could add a lip that the "disk" portion could seat against. and once they are stacked in the can they should hold tight. Well that's my though anyways.

i also found a ways back some formulas for blast chamber etc. based on caliber and barrel length, but I can't seem to find that again. Can either of you point me in that direction. It doesn't do much good if I make one that works, (it would be cool and all), but I want to understand why it works, beyond the basics, so in the future I can design one suited for my needs.

I really am not afraid to try or do anything. I have not found anything that I could not do yet, but I have identified a lot of things that sure took me forever to learn!

I really do appreciate your time and help.

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Re: .22 long barrel and 9mm Pistol

Post by Capt. Link. » Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:54 pm

Mono-cores require many basic operations that must be accurately done. Self made ones often do not perform as well as commercial units so a longer suppressor will help as the internal volume will be higher. You can copy a commercial unit or build one of the many successful ones I can recommend. All designs will be at least 6.00x1.00" or larger and longer. Over all the monocore is the most difficult but satisfactory results are obtainable for the novice in the .22lr format.

Baffle suppressors will normally outperform monocores for the home builder. Cone,K,Omega or other asymmetric baffles perform well and construction is not difficult. The cone will be the simplest to make but again a longer suppressor is recommended for maximum performance. Six or seven inches using a one inch or less diameter tube is normal.

A short suppressor requires high performance asymmetric baffles rubber wipes the use of ablatives or all three. The K is a common asymmetric that you can make with minimal equipment and is recommended. I would plan on 7 or 8 K's for optimum performance. K baffles very in length depending on diameter and design. You must determine the length of the K to figure out the length of the suppressor and number of baffles. Building is much harder if you set the tube length first. A 1.00 od is a maximum diameter for a .22 K can. Wall thickness must allow for threading so figure on .050 to .065 if using 28tpi and thinner for finer threads.

What direction do you wish to go ? I can offer from simplistic to challenges in machining.

A drawing of a rectangular box labeled suppressor done in crayon is the basic requirement. I would file for a longer suppressor than anticipated and amend the length later.
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895

Null
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Re: .22 long barrel and 9mm Pistol

Post by Null » Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:45 pm

Stainless on a 22? Why? You can get away with aluminum

Datio
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Re: .22 long barrel and 9mm Pistol

Post by Datio » Tue Jan 25, 2022 6:08 pm

Capt. Link. wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 2:54 pm
Mono-cores require many basic operations that must be accurately done. Self made ones often do not perform as well as commercial units so a longer suppressor will help as the internal volume will be higher. You can copy a commercial unit or build one of the many successful ones I can recommend. All designs will be at least 6.00x1.00" or larger and longer. Over all the monocore is the most difficult but satisfactory results are obtainable for the novice in the .22lr format.

Baffle suppressors will normally outperform monocores for the home builder. Cone,K,Omega or other asymmetric baffles perform well and construction is not difficult. The cone will be the simplest to make but again a longer suppressor is recommended for maximum performance. Six or seven inches using a one inch or less diameter tube is normal.

A short suppressor requires high performance asymmetric baffles rubber wipes the use of ablatives or all three. The K is a common asymmetric that you can make with minimal equipment and is recommended. I would plan on 7 or 8 K's for optimum performance. K baffles very in length depending on diameter and design. You must determine the length of the K to figure out the length of the suppressor and number of baffles. Building is much harder if you set the tube length first. A 1.00 od is a maximum diameter for a .22 K can. Wall thickness must allow for threading so figure on .050 to .065 if using 28tpi and thinner for finer threads.

What direction do you wish to go ? I can offer from simplistic to challenges in machining.

A drawing of a rectangular box labeled suppressor done in crayon is the basic requirement. I would file for a longer suppressor than anticipated and amend the length later.
Capt. Link, I really can't emphasis how much I appreciate your input. I find it odd that you think a monocore is harder to machine. Using our mill I can see how I would vice and run the program with ease. I spit balled that quite a bit and have some basic designs already done in fusion. Cones would be easy as well. The one I'm trying to figure is K baffles. I have seen some prints and photos, (from here) and have a good understanding of how and what they need to look like, but I don't see how I could do a k baffle on my mill without a rapid tun. Thats why I was wondering if you think the k baffle could be in two pieces. I could machine the cone and create a little lip on the bottom of the cone, and then machine the 'disk' part that would seat around the bottom, (point) of the cone, and once fitted inside the can, they should all be tight. I don't know how crazy that is, or if I'm over thinking how I could make it on the mill. I think I may try to experiment on my lathe this weekend to see if I can't figure out how to manually make a cone type piece, not a full part, just seeing if I can make a 60 degree cut into Aluminum. If I can achieve that, the rest would be easy.

while not super proficient on my mill, I feel way more comfortable on that then I do manually working a lathe, beyond just removing stock.

Once again, many thanks!

-Datio

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Capt. Link.
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Re: .22 long barrel and 9mm Pistol

Post by Capt. Link. » Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:59 pm

Null wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 5:45 pm
Stainless on a 22? Why? You can get away with aluminum
Stainless can be polished bead blasted and brushed and needs no finish.You can harden stainless far beyond the range of even 7075 alloys that need a finish.Volcanic glass priming compound plus the nitric acid makes for a very unfriendly environment. The wear on aluminum parts that need to be cleaned is far higher than stainless so lifespan is another issue.
Stainless is a optimum choice 17-4, 304, 316, 416 inconel and other high nickel alloys are all candidates.
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895

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Re: .22 long barrel and 9mm Pistol

Post by Capt. Link. » Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:37 pm

Can you make a hour glass shape or two cones with the small end pointing at each other on the mill. Do you have a lathe compound for cutting short tapers ? How do you cut a cone ?
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895

Datio
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Re: .22 long barrel and 9mm Pistol

Post by Datio » Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:15 pm

Capt. Link. wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 9:37 pm
Can you make a hour glass shape or two cones with the small end pointing at each other on the mill. Do you have a lathe compound for cutting short tapers ? How do you cut a cone ?
I can make a cone now by starting with round stock on end, about an inch high. I then could cone around the edge from top down, from center out to make the cone, then I use a ball mill to smooth it all out. Then I flip and do the reverse operation for the inside. What I end up with is a very nice, 'half' K cup, or a really nice cone. I can incorporate the spacer portion between cones into the design of the cone. In theory I could make cones at different lengths to account for different baffle spacing. hypothetically of course.

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Re: .22 long barrel and 9mm Pistol

Post by Capt. Link. » Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:53 pm

This is from a post I made long ago.https://www.silencertalk.com/forum/view ... p?t=136110 ImageImage
Image
Notice the Finn baffles plus the crimped cones https://patents.google.com/patent/US4588043A/en
This is the evolution of the crimped cone. https://images.app.goo.gl/bw9tnY2hCUQfXCPp9
You can use either crimped cone or use a type 1 Finn baffle with a conical spacer.
The only reason after 243 years the government now wants to disarm you is they intend to do something you would shoot them for!
http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895

Datio
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Re: .22 long barrel and 9mm Pistol

Post by Datio » Thu Jan 27, 2022 9:52 pm

Thank you sir. I have a lot of reading to do. I have not run across this particular post. let me look this all over some more. I'm sure I will have some questions tomorrow.

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