Ruger MKIII with Tac Sol Pac-Lite JAMMING!

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wakerider017
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Ruger MKIII with Tac Sol Pac-Lite JAMMING!

Post by wakerider017 »

Hey,

Just got out to the range this evening to test my new pac lite barrel.

I brought two kinds of ammo, CCI Standard Velocity and CCI Mini Mags.

The gun HATED the Standard velocity rounds. Out of 100 it probably jammed 20-30 of the bullets! It would jam as the round was being pushed into the chamber. causing the bolt to remain open. I would eject the bullet and there would be some scrapes on the lead nose of it. (Any jammed rounds were thrown out and not reused).

The mini mags functioned 100% out of 100 rounds.

Now this gun is a host to a silencer and I have a TON of Standard Velocity... So I am not too pleased.

Any suggestions?



P.S. Also the standard velocity ammo felt "funny" in the mags. Like it didn't fit well. Hard to describe, but maybe I will mess around with it more tomorrow.
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Post by rockman96 »

Whats the barrel length of your PacLite? If its 4.5", you shouldn't have to worry much about rounds going supersonic.
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Post by wakerider017 »

rockman96 wrote:Whats the barrel length of your PacLite? If its 4.5", you shouldn't have to worry much about rounds going supersonic.
yup 4.5.

That's good to hear. I just wonder why it hates that ammo so much?
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Post by wakerider017 »

UPDATE:

I tested the Pac-Lite with Mini Mags. (Manually fed and ejected without firing). I noticed all of the ammo was coming out scratched just like the standard velocity. It fed fine, but I believe that is because it has a hard copper plating. The softer lead standard velocity would get stuck because the lead deforms easier.

Swapped out to the original Ruger 5.5" bull barrel. Works perfect with both types of ammo.


I think we have our culprit here...

Pictured below are the bullets that came out of the pac-lite. the barrel puts marks on two opposite sides of the bullet. One side is much worse than the other side as you can see. Also you can see the soft lead deforms much more.




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wakerider017
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Post by wakerider017 »

Apparently it has something to do with a guide rod bumping the front of the tac sol barrel. There is a visible mark from where it is hitting.


Called Tac Sol up and there customer service is second to none. Sending the whole pistol back and they are going to get it working for me. I am very pleased.
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Post by JC Weaponry »

I've done business with Tac-Sol for awhile now, and they really do have some of the best employees I've ever had the pleasure of dealing with.

They will treat you well. 8)
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Post by silverbulletexpress »

I'd bet that instead of the guide rod hitting it is the firing pin that has hit the edge of the chamber making it hard for rounds to make it into the chamber. Some 22's you can dry fire and others will do this, all it takes is the barrel being just a tad longer and the firing pin will hit. You wouldn't have to have purposely dry fired it just snapped it when it went dry will do it.
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Post by wakerider017 »

silverbulletexpress wrote:I'd bet that instead of the guide rod hitting it is the firing pin that has hit the edge of the chamber making it hard for rounds to make it into the chamber. Some 22's you can dry fire and others will do this, all it takes is the barrel being just a tad longer and the firing pin will hit. You wouldn't have to have purposely dry fired it just snapped it when it went dry will do it.

I thought the MKIII had some type of protection to keep it from dry firing???


In any case I'm sure they will get it working at the Tac Sol lab :D
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Post by Ben B. »

The MKII bolt has a cross pin that goes through a slot in the firing pin. The job of the cross pin is to prevent the firing pin from striking the rim of the chamber. A 10/22 has a similar pin in its bolt, IIRC. If an aftermarket receiver changes the distance, could encounter some trouble.
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Post by silverbulletexpress »

Ben B. wrote:The MKII bolt has a cross pin that goes through a slot in the firing pin. The job of the cross pin is to prevent the firing pin from striking the rim of the chamber. A 10/22 has a similar pin in its bolt, IIRC. If an aftermarket receiver changes the distance, could encounter some trouble.
What I meant to say. :lol:
"A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks." --Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, 1785
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Post by wakerider017 »

Just got the pistol back from Tac Sol supposedly fixed...

Its not. Nothing has changed. Still jams

I'm a little upset. I think they would have tested it before just sending it back!!


Here is a video I took just a few mins ago:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIy6eRZjGCc
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Post by Ben B. »

That blows. Did you send the whole pistol, or only the TacSol receiver?
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Post by tomz34 »

Have you tried other factory magazines with it?
Feeding problems with semi-autos can many times be traced to out of spec. feedlips /damaged mags.
Might be worth trying some other magazines.
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Post by wakerider017 »

Ben B. wrote:That blows. Did you send the whole pistol, or only the TacSol receiver?
Whole pistol with mag.
tomz34 wrote:Have you tried other factory magazines with it?
Feeding problems with semi-autos can many times be traced to out of spec. feedlips /damaged mags.
Might be worth trying some other magazines.
I have the 2 factory mags that came with the gun. Both Jam.

Also, both mags work just fine with the factory barrel.




I'm just a little pissed because I spent my good money on shipping the pistol there, only to have it shipped back with the same problem. I am seriously considering ditching this barrel and threading the factory one.

Very disappointing because I love how light it is and its profile with a Spectre is attached!
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Post by tomz34 »

May also want to take a close look at the edge of the chamber for any burrs, as suggested above.
If there are any it could be causing the bullet to hang up as its feeding into the chamber.
I believe Brownells sells some type of reamer to clean up the chamber edge on .22's that have been dry-fired too much.
Im not saying thats what you did, I imagine a burr could be caused by other means.
If all else fails you can have a competent gunsmith take a look.
Please keep us posted, I have a similar set-up, (Paclite/Ruger), always interested in the solution.
Good luck with it.
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Post by wakerider017 »

tomz34 wrote:May also want to take a close look at the edge of the chamber for any burrs, as suggested above.
If there are any it could be causing the bullet to hang up as its feeding into the chamber.
I believe Brownells sells some type of reamer to clean up the chamber edge on .22's that have been dry-fired too much.
Im not saying thats what you did, I imagine a burr could be caused by other means.
If all else fails you can have a competent gunsmith take a look.
Please keep us posted, I have a similar set-up, (Paclite/Ruger), always interested in the solution.
Good luck with it.
Thanks for this advice.

I did look at the lip of the chamber and compared it to the factory chamber. I noticed the factory chamber has a slight bevel to it while the pac-lite is a hard edge. Not sure if this would cause an issue while feeding it?
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Post by Ben B. »

It would if tolerances are stacking up the wrong way.

Tac Sol are supposed to be great guys. My dealings with them were very positive. I'd suggest you call and talk to one of the tech guys and email him the video clip, and tell them they need to make it good. There is no way you should have to front another shipping fee. They need to send a call ticket.
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Post by tomz34 »

Really surprized that TacSol did not correct /diagnose the problem.
Have always had positive experiences with them, they are good people.
I have had a Paclite upper on a Ruger 22/45 frame for over 3 years now.
One of my favorite silencer hosts, pretty hard to beat 23 ounces with a loaded mag, 27 ounces with the can attached.
I have put probably shot over 10k thru it.
I strickly shoot CCI Mini Mags, they stay subsonic for me 99% of the time.
When its extremley cold outside I may have a few go supersonic.
When I first got the set-up I tried a varity of .22 ammo.
Mini mags function the best and that's why I shoot them.
.22's can be ammo sensitive, anytime I purchase one I run everything in it, find out what it likes best and stick with it. Rifles and pistols.
If you really like the barrel I would'nt be in a hurry to ditch it.
Almost all guns can be made to run with a little work.
I checked my pistol and there is about somewhere between 1/32" and 1/16" clearance between my guiderod and the face of my barrel when the bolt is locked back. No signs of it hitting anywhere.
If yours is hitting that seems a little troubling.
Not sure how much you shoot, have shot your pistol?
The .22LR is a filthy round, I detail stip and scrub the chamber/bore every brick of ammo I put through it.
If I dont I will start having malfunctions/jams with mine.
You may want to also check out the RimfireCentral forum.
There is a lot of good info. at that site and pretty helpful group of people.
They may be able to help get to the bottom of your problem.
Again good luck and keep us posted, really interested to see how this turns out.
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Post by cmoore »

wakerider017 wrote:
tomz34 wrote:May also want to take a close look at the edge of the chamber for any burrs, as suggested above.
If there are any it could be causing the bullet to hang up as its feeding into the chamber.
I believe Brownells sells some type of reamer to clean up the chamber edge on .22's that have been dry-fired too much.
Im not saying thats what you did, I imagine a burr could be caused by other means.
If all else fails you can have a competent gunsmith take a look.
Please keep us posted, I have a similar set-up, (Paclite/Ruger), always interested in the solution.
Good luck with it.
Thanks for this advice.

I did look at the lip of the chamber and compared it to the factory chamber. I noticed the factory chamber has a slight bevel to it while the pac-lite is a hard edge. Not sure if this would cause an issue while feeding it?
I'll bet that's your issue. Some 1911's are the same way until you polish the feed ramp (on the barrels that are not fully ramped), and then you're GTG...hopefully that'll work on your .22
cmoore...

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Post by Hoop »

I watched the video:

In the video, I saw the extractor not allowing the round to slip up and square up on the bolt face. This may be causing the bullets to go in the chamber @ an angle. It also looks like the extractor may be improperly installed. Taken the bolt apart lately?

Does the pistol have aftermarket bolt parts?
Does the extractor work freely?

I have seen suppressed Rugers gum up in the bolt area causing the moving parts to hang up.

Another problem I have seen is a bolt face with crude around the edge. A sharp seal pick usually is a good tool to clean it up. There could be a slight difference in diameter of the cartridge heads allowing one to work and one not to.

I am not saying you do not know how to clean a pistol, but when diagnosing a problem it is best to get all the variables out of the way that you can and a simple detail cleaning may be the answer.
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Post by Hoop »

I watched it again:
When you initially pull the bolt back, I hear two distinct clicks. One when the rear of the extractor hits the rear of the ejection port and one when it slams home.

It appears in the vid that the extractor is sticking out from the bolt and maybe protruding just enough out in front of the bolt face to prevent the rounds from slipping up into the bolt face.

Please check it and get back on here.

Thanks
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Post by wakerider017 »

I have never taken the bolt apart. Only taken the entire bolt out as a whole for cleaning.

The gun only has about 750 rounds through it.

Only about 150 rounds through the Pac-Lite. (The pac-lite was used with a silencer for all 150 rounds).

I am not really sure what I should be looking for. I can take pics or make another video if you instruct me what to look for/focus on.
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Post by Hoop »

It is hard to really tell for sure as your hand was flipping fast but it seemed the extractor was protruding off the side from the bolt.

Show a up close pic of the bolt from the top and front.
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Post by wakerider017 »

Hoop wrote:It is hard to really tell for sure as your hand was flipping fast but it seemed the extractor was protruding off the side from the bolt.

Show a up close pic of the bolt from the top and front.
Will do. It's late, but ill do it tomorrow!

Tac Sol sent me a label to send it back. So I will also be doing that tomorrow. They said they want to get it right, and in their defense they said they test fired it approx 30 times with CCI Blazers.


We shall see.
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Post by wakerider017 »

I don't think it is sticking out past the bolt.

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