Shotgun Silencer soon to go out to dealers UPDATED

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John Titsworth
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Shotgun Silencer soon to go out to dealers UPDATED

Post by John Titsworth »

I will have more exact details soon, but this is going to happen. Finally

http://www.xcaliberfirearms.com/?page_id=173

http://www.xcaliberfirearms.com/?page_id=173

The SS1C is the world's first multi-gauge shotgun silencer. Look at our page for more details.
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Re: Shotgun Silencer soon to go out to dealers

Post by a_canadian »

No offense intended, but... To quote David Letterman... That's just plain big! But hey, if it works well I'm sure it'll find an enthusiastic reception, especially at that price.
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Re: Shotgun Silencer soon to go out to dealers

Post by doubloon »

2 weeks!

Congratulations.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BDtd2jNIwAU MUSAFAR!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CrOL-ydFMI This is Water DavidW
Complete Form 1s http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79895
John Titsworth
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Re: Shotgun Silencer soon to go out to dealers

Post by John Titsworth »

a_canadian wrote:No offense intended, but... To quote David Letterman... That's just plain big! But hey, if it works well I'm sure it'll find an enthusiastic reception, especially at that price.
They have to be big or they don't work.
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Re: Shotgun Silencer soon to go out to dealers

Post by josephdennis »

Is there a possibility that the wad would get stuck in the can? Can you shoot birdshot out of it?
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Re: Shotgun Silencer soon to go out to dealers

Post by John Titsworth »

The shot cup or "wad" will not get stuck in the suppressor. This silencer is designed to shoot shot.
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Re: Shotgun Silencer soon to go out to dealers

Post by ranb »

What choke is the barrel/silencer? Can the choke be adjusted or other chokes installed? Metered noise levels? What happens if slugs are used?

Randy
SilencerTalk was a place I could disccuss making registered silencers without being told I was a criminal. That is no longer true. http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=132&t=99273
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Re: Shotgun Silencer soon to go out to dealers

Post by John Titsworth »

ranb wrote:What choke is the barrel/silencer? Can the choke be adjusted or other chokes installed? Metered noise levels? What happens if slugs are used?

Randy
We are manufacturing a number of chokes that the suppressor fits onto which will accommodate the majority of shotguns currently in peoples hands. We are currently at 135dB and working down. We also use correct military accepted sound testing equipment and accepted standards of testing. Slugs can be used, but they are supersonic and very large and still produce a crack that is pretty loud.

Our shotgun silencer has been in research and development for over 5 years and we are producing an excellent silencer at a very reasonable price. We are actually hunters and have a great deal of experience with shotguns.

This suppressor is in production and will be transferring to dealers within weeks. Another company released a shotgun silencer that is a variable length today. Not only is that not going to fly with ATF because of the ATF definition of suppressors (and subsequent rulings) XCaliber is the first company in the US to produce a working, civilian shotgun silencer that complies with ATF regulations. Shotgun silencers have been produced for over 35 years in Europe. No one in the USA invented the shotgun silencer, but we are the first to actually produce a working product and we are first to market.

Hope that helps.
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Re: Shotgun Silencer soon to go out to dealers

Post by ranb »

John Titsworth wrote:The shot cup or "wad" will not get stuck in the suppressor. This silencer is designed to shoot shot.
Does it use a perforated tube to keep the shot cup closed or a large baffle bore to keep the cup from getting caught inside? Thanks.

Randy
SilencerTalk was a place I could disccuss making registered silencers without being told I was a criminal. That is no longer true. http://www.silencertalk.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=132&t=99273
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Re: Shotgun Silencer soon to go out to dealers

Post by [email protected] »

John Titsworth wrote:
ranb wrote:What choke is the barrel/silencer? Can the choke be adjusted or other chokes installed? Metered noise levels? What happens if slugs are used?

Randy
This suppressor is in production and will be transferring to dealers within weeks. Another company released a shotgun silencer that is a variable length today. Not only is that not going to fly with ATF because of the ATF definition of suppressors (and subsequent rulings) XCaliber is the first company in the US to produce a working, civilian shotgun silencer that complies with ATF regulations. Shotgun silencers have been produced for over 35 years in Europe. No one in the USA invented the shotgun silencer, but we are the first to actually produce a working product and we are first to market.

Hope that helps.

I doubt SilencerCo. is flying blind with their Salvo. I'd be shocked if they run into problems with the ATF, seeing as they seem to be on their P's and Q's up there.
......just my $0.02
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Re: Shotgun Silencer soon to go out to dealers

Post by John Titsworth »

ranb wrote:
John Titsworth wrote:The shot cup or "wad" will not get stuck in the suppressor. This silencer is designed to shoot shot.
Does it use a perforated tube to keep the shot cup closed or a large baffle bore to keep the cup from getting caught inside? Thanks.

Randy
Actually neither of those. We use a reasonable bore size and baffles. I won't post all the details of how it works just yet, but its a VERY interesting system that works amazingly well. We do have a model that just attaches to an existing choke thread for whatever choke system you have, and we offer a replacement barrel that swaps out when you want to shoot suppressed. That is the one thing about shotguns that is different than say a 556 or 762 host. You just change barrels when you want to use the silencer. Shotgun silencers that actually work are never going to be really small.
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Re: Shotgun Silencer soon to go out to dealers

Post by John Titsworth »

[email protected] wrote:
John Titsworth wrote:
ranb wrote:What choke is the barrel/silencer? Can the choke be adjusted or other chokes installed? Metered noise levels? What happens if slugs are used?

Randy
This suppressor is in production and will be transferring to dealers within weeks. Another company released a shotgun silencer that is a variable length today. Not only is that not going to fly with ATF because of the ATF definition of suppressors (and subsequent rulings) XCaliber is the first company in the US to produce a working, civilian shotgun silencer that complies with ATF regulations. Shotgun silencers have been produced for over 35 years in Europe. No one in the USA invented the shotgun silencer, but we are the first to actually produce a working product and we are first to market.

Hope that helps.

I doubt SilencerCo. is flying blind with their Salvo. I'd be shocked if they run into problems with the ATF, seeing as they seem to be on their P's and Q's up there.
......just my $0.02
ATF does not allow civilians to have extra silencer parts. That is a well known fact and known to anyone who has been involved with silencers for any length of time. The product you are talking about has a system of rods that allow the end user to use more or less baffles depending on how loud they want the silencer to be that day. So you buy a 12" silencer and then you want to make it a 6" silencer...you need shorter rods. They sell those. You take out the longer rods (part of the original silencer) and set them aside. You take the baffles you don't want to use and set them aside. You then install the shorter rods and go shooting. Then you realize that you paid $1,400+$200 for the transfer tax for a silencer that only gives you 10dB of reduction. So you decide to buy the 8" rods. You add back baffles and go shooting. Wow, still hurting your ears. So you decide to go for the 10" rods and add back some more baffles. Still hurting your ears. You put the original can back together and go shooting. Now its not ringing your ears.

What do you have sitting in your house? A pile of extra rods for changing the length of your silencer, silencer parts. Read the ATF definition and subsequent rulings on silencers.

This is the ATF definition of a silencer
The term “Firearm Silencer” or “Firearm Muffler” means any device for silencing, muffling, or diminishing the report of a portable firearm, including any combination of parts, designed or redesigned, and intended for the use in assembling or fabricating a firearm silencer or firearm muffler, any part intended only for use in such assembly or fabrication.
You are now in possession of a combination of parts designed and intended to use in assembling a firearm silencer. Get the picture now? This only covers the rods, not the extra baffles that are taken out when you shorten your silencer. This problem can be solved by paying an ATF transfer tax on the extra parts, read on.

If modular silencers were ATF approved, every silencer maker in the country would make ONE 22LR silencer that covered every possible use (and other calibers). All of us would make a 20" silencer that, using varying methods of attachment, could be adjusted for the use of the day. We would all just serialize the back end cap (perfectly legal). You then could take your ONE TAX silencer and use it as a 4" wet pistol silencer, and then make it a 12" AR15 22LR silencer for your M&P15 or Ruger 10/22. When you wanted the long 20" job, you would just add back parts. Unfortunately you simply cannot do this. The only people who can own modular silencers are the military, law enforcement, 07/02FFL's and countries you can export to.

The extra rods will each need an ATF form 4 for civilians. They will need to be serialized and comply with ATF marking regulations. The rods down the bore are far to small to allow marking that meets ATF regulations, so lets exclude those. You have 6" rods, 8" rods, and 10" rods. Depending on how they separate the baffles, those will need Form 4's as well. From the marketing it looks like the baffles are 1" pieces. Each of them will need to be registered. The first 6" section attaches to the end cap so we can exclude that. You have two rods for each length. That is six rods and six baffles. Twelve silencer parts. Thats an extra $2,400 in transfer taxes needed. Add in the original price of $1,400, the original tax and you come out at $4,000 for that silencer. That is $2,600 in ATF transfer taxes alone. Not to mention the wait.

I think the latent released competitors product is really great in a lot of ways and I like the guys that operate the company in question. ATF doesn’t allow modular silencers for civilians. If they did every company would redesign their entire product line. Not going to happen.
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Re: Shotgun Silencer soon to go out to dealers

Post by gunningbadger »

The only thing I read in that post sounded like you were saying you were super butthurt. Im sure silencerco has cleared this prior to distribution. Sorry they got something through the ATF others haven't.
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Re: Shotgun Silencer soon to go out to dealers

Post by [email protected] »

gunningbadger wrote:The only thing I read in that post sounded like you were saying you were super butthurt. Im sure silencerco has cleared this prior to distribution. Sorry they got something through the ATF others haven't.

+1 gunningbadger

That's exactly what it sounds like to me as well. For the record $1400 is out of my budget, however If I were in the market for a shotgun supressor I'd save up for the Salvo over the SS1. Especially if the SS1 only fits on one shotgun.

John, lets make a public bet right here.....If SilencerCo does NOT have problems from the ATF regarding the Salvo, then I get a SS1 free of charge(minus the shotgun). On the other hand, If SilencerCo is unable to bring the Salvo to the civilian market because of restrictions from the ATF, then I'll buy a SS1(including the shotgun). If you are that confident in your theory then you have nothing to loose, and you'll actually gain a customer that you otherwise would not have.......What do you say?
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Re: Shotgun Silencer soon to go out to dealers

Post by a_canadian »

John; while I appreciate your thoroughness in discussing Silencerco's new product and the potential legal ramifications, I have to concur with the previous two posters in that it's sounding an awful lot like you're attacking them. Silencerco is hardly a 'little guy' so it's not bullying exactly... but it does end up making you sound rather petty. They've got a product and marketing well underway, seemingly to hit the shops with similar timing to your own shotgun suppressor, and it's understandable that this may be upsetting to a shop trying to drum up business. But that's just competition, perfectly ordinary stuff. Small shops face competition from big shops all the time. Your product just has to match or beat their performance, at a somewhat comparable price, to do well by word of mouth advertising. There's no need for bashing in a forum. It does no one a service. Except maybe Silencerco.

If they fail in the court of ATF randomness, well, so it goes and they'll eat all their R&D and promotional costs and move on. Personally I don't see their shotgun suppressor as being all that, in the sense that it's an awkward system with mediocre suppression, leaving most shooters to continue wearing good ear pro, and the biggest real advantage being that it's possible to continue using the shotgun's original sights in many cases. And of course the interchangeability from gun to gun... that's a fairly big one. But it's also something of a tank, weight-wise, and the shorter sizes just don't seem all that useful acoustically so their primary feature looks to me like a bit of a waste of time.

Your company's pricing seems very, very tempting for US customers, and your reported volume reduction to 135dB so far, and continuing to pursue lower volumes, sounds encouraging. Silencerco's 12" version of the Salvo they're reporting as 132dB at the ear and 137.9dB at the muzzle - guessing that you're metering the standard of 1metre to the side of the shotgun muzzle, it seems your performance is about the same as theirs. For approximately half the price. Seems a bit of a no-brainer, a product which ought to sell itself. Silencerco's apparent ignorance, and abundant arrogance in claiming this...
Silencerco's web page for the Salvo wrote:The SilencerCo Salvo 12 is the first and only commercially-viable shotgun suppressor on earth.
... isn't doing them any favours. If their suppressor doesn't measure up, if it's hurting people's ears and/or causing issues with the ATF or some state regulators, then the attitude together with the problems will shoot them in the feet. And "first", really? Does the Hushpower line of suppressors not sell rather well? Or by "on earth" perhaps they mean that the USA represents the entire planet? Either way, kind of foolish sounding.

You've been slowly but surely providing information as you've been able in another thread and now this one regarding your own product, and I think until this rather unnecessary post you've been doing a great job in letting potential customers know what's happening. Keep it up, is all I guess I'm suggesting, and try to avoid being 'butthurt' as has been said. Or grumpy, or whatever it is. I know there's probably a fairly substantial investment in time and money at stake, but if your product bears out as you've been saying it performs you have no problem.
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Re: Shotgun Silencer soon to go out to dealers

Post by John Titsworth »

[email protected] wrote:
gunningbadger wrote:The only thing I read in that post sounded like you were saying you were super butthurt. Im sure silencerco has cleared this prior to distribution. Sorry they got something through the ATF others haven't.

+1 gunningbadger

That's exactly what it sounds like to me as well. For the record $1400 is out of my budget, however If I were in the market for a shotgun supressor I'd save up for the Salvo over the SS1. Especially if the SS1 only fits on one shotgun.

John, lets make a public bet right here.....If SilencerCo does NOT have problems from the ATF regarding the Salvo, then I get a SS1 free of charge(minus the shotgun). On the other hand, If SilencerCo is unable to bring the Salvo to the civilian market because of restrictions from the ATF, then I'll buy a SS1(including the shotgun). If you are that confident in your theory then you have nothing to loose, and you'll actually gain a customer that you otherwise would not have.......What do you say?
The Salvo product in its current configuration is not legal for civilians to own with only one transfer tax. Our choke thread mounted silencer we don't show on the site yet, but its going to be the closest thing to what you will probably want. If the ATF approves the exact product they are showing now, you get a free shotgun silencer that we manufacture of your choice and ANY one of our 22LR silencers FREE OF CHARGE. I will pay BOTH transfer taxes too. If ATF says the Salvo product isn't civilian legal with only one transfer tax in its current configuration you buy any of our shotgun suppressors directly from us at retail and I'll still GIVE you any 22LR silencer we make. If I win, you pay the transfer taxes. So... how does that sound?
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Re: Shotgun Silencer soon to go out to dealers

Post by [email protected] »

John Titsworth wrote:
[email protected] wrote:
gunningbadger wrote:The only thing I read in that post sounded like you were saying you were super butthurt. Im sure silencerco has cleared this prior to distribution. Sorry they got something through the ATF others haven't.

+1 gunningbadger

That's exactly what it sounds like to me as well. For the record $1400 is out of my budget, however If I were in the market for a shotgun supressor I'd save up for the Salvo over the SS1. Especially if the SS1 only fits on one shotgun.

John, lets make a public bet right here.....If SilencerCo does NOT have problems from the ATF regarding the Salvo, then I get a SS1 free of charge(minus the shotgun). On the other hand, If SilencerCo is unable to bring the Salvo to the civilian market because of restrictions from the ATF, then I'll buy a SS1(including the shotgun). If you are that confident in your theory then you have nothing to loose, and you'll actually gain a customer that you otherwise would not have.......What do you say?
The Salvo product in its current configuration is not legal for civilians to own with only one transfer tax. Our choke thread mounted silencer we don't show on the site yet, but its going to be the closest thing to what you will probably want. If the ATF approves the exact product they are showing now, you get a free shotgun silencer that we manufacture of your choice and ANY one of our 22LR silencers FREE OF CHARGE. I will pay BOTH transfer taxes too. If ATF says the Salvo product isn't civilian legal with only one transfer tax in its current configuration you buy any of our shotgun suppressors directly from us at retail and I'll still GIVE you any 22LR silencer we make. If I win, you pay the transfer taxes. So... how does that sound?
Sounds like a deal. Two free cans are heading my way ;)
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Re: Shotgun Silencer soon to go out to dealers

Post by John Titsworth »

I sincerely hope you are right! Either way you will be getting the quietest shotgun silencer and quietest 22 can on the market! You want the choke mounted one? Which 22LR silencer do you want? We have the Micro, the AL Genesis and the SS Genesis (I suggest the SS Genesis myself but the Micro is pretty awesome!) :D
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Re: Shotgun Silencer soon to go out to dealers

Post by [email protected] »

John Titsworth wrote:I sincerely hope you are right! Either way you will be getting the quietest shotgun silencer and quietest 22 can on the market! You want the choke mounted one? Which 22LR silencer do you want? We have the Micro, the AL Genesis and the SS Genesis (I suggest the SS Genesis myself but the Micro is pretty awesome!) :D
I'm thinking the SS Genesis, but as far as the SS1 goes I'm not sure. Will we find out who is right when Silencerco ships the Salvo to dealers? Also, would you be willing to let me pay the difference and select one of your 9mm or 45cans instead of a .22lr can? Reason being I already have a Liberty KTL.
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Re: Shotgun Silencer soon to go out to dealers

Post by John Titsworth »

That sounds fine to me. You are going to love the SS1 suppressor. Ill even meet you sometime in NE Texas and let you try out our stuff if you want to.
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Re: Shotgun Silencer soon to go out to dealers

Post by [email protected] »

John Titsworth wrote:That sounds fine to me. You are going to love the SS1 suppressor. Ill even meet you sometime in NE Texas and let you try out our stuff if you want to.

Abesolutely, I'll bring some other stamp collectors with me and will make a day out of it!
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Re: Shotgun Silencer soon to go out to dealers

Post by John Titsworth »

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Re: Shotgun Silencer soon to go out to dealers

Post by [email protected] »

John, it looks like silencer shop is taking people's money for the salvo..... Are you ready to call it yet?
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Re: Shotgun Silencer soon to go out to dealers

Post by John Titsworth »

Stay up to date for the latest shotgun silencer info here

http://www.xcaliberfirearms.com/?page_id=173

http://youtu.be/dL_0ZP4H5QE
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Re: Shotgun Silencer soon to go out to dealers UPDATED

Post by strobro32 »

Any testing on a 7" KEG12 or Surbu?
If it doesn't splatter, shatter, burst or explode, it's not worth shooting.
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