USPS won't honor insurance claim - advice sought

General silencer discussion. If you want to talk about a specific silenced rifle or pistol, it is best to do that in the rifle or pistol section for that brand.

All NFA laws apply.

Moderators: mpallett, mr fixit, bakerjw, renegade

User avatar
WhisperFan
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1551
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:08 pm

USPS won't honor insurance claim - advice sought

Post by WhisperFan »

Anyone have a similar experience? What did you do and how was it resolved?

I sent Hooper an unmounted rifle barrel from a Remington 700 to be threaded. He told me that the mailing tube arrived, but it was empty.
I was happy that I had purchased insurance - for a minute!

I filed an insurance claim - my description was, "Un-mounted rifle barrel for a Remington 700 rifle. Not a complete rifle. In unfired condition"

The Post Office denied the claim, saying, "Article contained prohibited items (non-mailable)" Then they went on to quote, "Pistols, revolvers, and other firearms capable of being concealed on the person (referred to as “handguns”) are nonmailable in the domestic mail, except as permitted in Exhibit 432.1 and DMM 601.11.1."

So I filed my appeal ... I know you sometimes get more flies with honey .... but I wasn't feeling like being nice - since they apparently didn't even read the claim. So I said:
"The item you lost, or allowed to be stolen, was an unmounted rifle barrel. It was not a full rifle, as it was just the barrel and not the receiver. It was not a handgun, pistol, or a concealable firearm of any type. As a matter of fact, it was not a firearm at all, but a firearm part. I clearly stated this in my original claim, but you apparently didn't read the claim. My appeal is based on the fact that your denial was based on a regulation that I DID NOT VIOLATE! Furthermore, had the item been a complete rifle (which it was not) I STILL would have been allowed to send it to a dealer/manufacturer."

Has anyone else had problems with barrels or other firearm parts?

By the way - this tube was well-sealed and I even shook it vigorously, making sure nothing seemed to move or rattle. There is no way it came open on it's own!

Please contact by replying here, or by PM if you have any advice on how to proceed if they continue to say that a plain barrel is prohibited.
As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such a twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air -- however slight -- lest we become unwilling victims of the darkness.
Justice William O. Douglas
User avatar
Bargsbeer
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 484
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:28 am
Location: The Gunshine State (St Pete/Tampa FL)

Re: USPS won't honor insurance claim - advice sought

Post by Bargsbeer »

I work for the Postal Service shoot me a PM, I don't know if I can help you with the claim but I might be able to point in the direction of lost and found. We can usually locate items lost in the mail, especially something as noticeable as a barrel.
I used the evil Quicken Will maker..... And my form 4 was approved
dbrown
Senior Silent Operator
Posts: 127
Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 12:28 pm

Re: USPS won't honor insurance claim - advice sought

Post by dbrown »

Sorta similar to what happened to my grandma...she sent a package and it was stolen. USPS blamed her :shock: The package routing clearly showed that it went missing at a USPS facility. After 3 months of arguing and filling out papers she called the local news. 3 days after it aired she had her check. It's ridiculous. She didn't ship a rifle barrel but I have and I WAS told it would be covered. Best of luck to you
User avatar
ick
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 4616
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:17 pm
Location: Johnstown, PA

Re: USPS won't honor insurance claim - advice sought

Post by ick »

The laws on shipping are written to benefit the service provider and screw the end-consumer. You may have to file a Homeowners claim. Talk to your insurance agent. How much value was it?
-----
Ick
User avatar
silencertalk
Site Admin
Posts: 33978
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:31 am
Location: USA

Re: USPS won't honor insurance claim - advice sought

Post by silencertalk »

I only insure things worth over $2000. Not worth it to argue for less than that. UPS would have denied that anyway as improperly packed.
700PSS
Elite Member
Posts: 6266
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:36 am

Re: USPS won't honor insurance claim - advice sought

Post by 700PSS »

silencertalk wrote:...denied that anyway as improperly packed.
THIS.

Most all denials of parcel claims are for this reason. As far as shipping barrels goes, the tube is the worst type of packaging to use. Not saying it will never work, I even did it myself once, before hearing Mike from Tornado Tech's "Packaging 101" at the 2009 Silencer Shoot Seminar.

Best way is to use a sturdy cardboard shipping box and wrap/pack the barrel heavily with the brown, Kraft shipping paper.
User avatar
WhisperFan
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1551
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:08 pm

Re: USPS won't honor insurance claim - advice sought

Post by WhisperFan »

I don't know that it was 'improperly packaged'

The tube wasn't a lightweight mailing tube, like those sold at the post office. It was a heavy cardboard tube that was used by OnLine Metals when I received a shipment. The ends were 1" thick wooden plugs. On one end (the one still intact) the plug was stapled into place and taped. The other end was pressed into place and taped over three times, and then tape wrapped around the tube to hold down the ends.
As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such a twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air -- however slight -- lest we become unwilling victims of the darkness.
Justice William O. Douglas
User avatar
WhisperFan
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1551
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:08 pm

Re: USPS won't honor insurance claim - advice sought

Post by WhisperFan »

silencertalk wrote:I only insure things worth over $2000. Not worth it to argue for less than that. UPS would have denied that anyway as improperly packed.
Wish I was wealthy enough to absorb a loss of 1999.00 and not have it be "worth it" to argue :wink:
As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such a twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air -- however slight -- lest we become unwilling victims of the darkness.
Justice William O. Douglas
User avatar
Selectedmarksman
Silencertalk Goon Squad
Posts: 6633
Joined: Sun Oct 02, 2005 5:16 am
Location: KY

Re: USPS won't honor insurance claim - advice sought

Post by Selectedmarksman »

The exact thing thing happened to me shipping my Rem 700 barreled action years ago. I personally, obsessively packed it and used way too much tape. I declared it as a firearm, but somewhere along the way BOTH ends of the tube were removed and UPS thought it was fine to pass an EMPTY tube declared as a firearm all the way to my smith. UPS played lots of games. I had to get the State Police and ATF involved before it 'magically' turned up in one of their facilities (probably too much heat for an item hard to fence as it had no bolt, stock, trigger, etc.). They claimed I had improperly packed it.

When UPS finally returned the rifle to me it the muzzle was sticking out of one end of the box. Apparently that is proper packaging. They did not refund me the lost shipping or compensate me for the QD mount that was never found. UPS is anti-gun and pro-thief, as far as I can tell.

For advice, if you haven't contacted your state police to start a 'stolen firearm' report, get that ball rolling. A little heat on UPS might make the thief think twice and sneak it back in where it can be 'found'. You can also inform the uncaring UPS people you talk to that you are obligated to get State and Federal law enforcement agencies involved in the search. That package could only have gone through so many hands on it's trip.
I've got Honey Badger Fever.
*Add this to your sig if you've got the fever, too!
User avatar
kalikraven
Elite Member
Posts: 2944
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 4:48 pm
Location: Florida

Re: USPS won't honor insurance claim - advice sought

Post by kalikraven »

I also work for USPS as a Clerk and think that you are doing the right thing by appealing it. It is a rifle barrel and is not a firearm or concealable. If you have a good postmaster they will help you. Otherwise I'd threaten litigation. Contact USPS consumer affairs and explain the situation. Heres a link to consumer affairs http://www.usps.com/ncsc/locators/find-cam.html


Good luck. I've mailed 3 differnet rifle barrels to Tornado Tech and luckily for me I got them all back. If it was found then it is possibly at Atlanta's lost mail center awaiting auction.
Going a little more discrete here due to some of my opinions...
User avatar
Bargsbeer
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 484
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:28 am
Location: The Gunshine State (St Pete/Tampa FL)

Re: USPS won't honor insurance claim - advice sought

Post by Bargsbeer »

kalikraven wrote:I also work for USPS as a Clerk and think that you are doing the right thing by appealing it. It is a rifle barrel and is not a firearm or concealable. If you have a good postmaster they will help you. Otherwise I'd threaten litigation. Contact USPS consumer affairs and explain the situation. Heres a link to consumer affairs http://www.usps.com/ncsc/locators/find-cam.html


Good luck. I've mailed 3 differnet rifle barrels to Tornado Tech and luckily for me I got them all back. If it was found then it is possibly at Atlanta's lost mail center awaiting auction.

Where are you a clerk? I'm a Mailhandler in Tampa
I used the evil Quicken Will maker..... And my form 4 was approved
User avatar
kalikraven
Elite Member
Posts: 2944
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 4:48 pm
Location: Florida

Re: USPS won't honor insurance claim - advice sought

Post by kalikraven »

I work as a clerk in the Gainesville Fl area. Way too small an office to name.
Going a little more discrete here due to some of my opinions...
User avatar
Hoop
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 391
Joined: Sat May 17, 2008 1:48 pm
Location: AL
Contact:

Re: USPS won't honor insurance claim - advice sought

Post by Hoop »

Tube arrived with one end torn open in my box. I left it there as it was after hours. I contacted the shipper and Local OIG whom I know personally. The PO advised they did not pay attention to the package when they put it in my box.

Whisperfan gets the ball rolling on the claim while the OIG guy advised me to refuse the parcel. I refused the parcel as Whisperfan advised that they needed the packaging on his end anyway to verify. I took pics of the tube prior to refusing.

A couple days ago I get a slip in my box that I had a package too long for the box and needed to pick it up across the counter. A couple days ago I returned to get the package which was a triangular tube with tape over the ends that read "THIS ITEM WAS RECEIVED AT OUR FACILITY DAMAGED". This was handwritten addressed to me from the USPS hub.

When I got to the shop I opened it to find whisperfan's barrel and paperwork that he sent along with it. At first we had thought someone had stolen the barrel. But now it seems they like to either open folks mail or x-ray it. Either way it should have been sent instead of making us believe it went missing. After all, it is not a firearm.
"Buzzards gotta eat, same as worms."

www.hooperordnance.com
User avatar
Bargsbeer
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 484
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:28 am
Location: The Gunshine State (St Pete/Tampa FL)

Re: USPS won't honor insurance claim - advice sought

Post by Bargsbeer »

Hoop wrote:Tube arrived with one end torn open in my box. I left it there as it was after hours. I contacted the shipper and Local OIG whom I know personally. The PO advised they did not pay attention to the package when they put it in my box.

Whisperfan gets the ball rolling on the claim while the OIG guy advised me to refuse the parcel. I refused the parcel as Whisperfan advised that they needed the packaging on his end anyway to verify. I took pics of the tube prior to refusing.

A couple days ago I get a slip in my box that I had a package too long for the box and needed to pick it up across the counter. A couple days ago I returned to get the package which was a triangular tube with tape over the ends that read "THIS ITEM WAS RECEIVED AT OUR FACILITY DAMAGED". This was handwritten addressed to me from the USPS hub.

When I got to the shop I opened it to find whisperfan's barrel and paperwork that he sent along with it. At first we had thought someone had stolen the barrel. But now it seems they like to either open folks mail or x-ray it. Either way it should have been sent instead of making us believe it went missing. After all, it is not a firearm.

I work for the Postal Service we can't open or Xray peoples mail. Tubes in general are terrible for shipping, Unless you put blueprints or pictures in them anything with weight and it will almost always break open.
I used the evil Quicken Will maker..... And my form 4 was approved
User avatar
kalikraven
Elite Member
Posts: 2944
Joined: Thu Jul 06, 2006 4:48 pm
Location: Florida

Re: USPS won't honor insurance claim - advice sought

Post by kalikraven »

WTF it is mail. Unless it is 'MEDIA MAIL' then it is not 'subject to inspection.' They should not have opened it or xrayed it. Mail is sacred. It is the USPS that is trusted to take a parcel or letter and without delay deliver it to the recipient with 100% confidence that the letter is intact and had not been molested or tampered with. I truly hope that this was a packaging failure and not the USPS tampering with your package.
Going a little more discrete here due to some of my opinions...
User avatar
Bargsbeer
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 484
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:28 am
Location: The Gunshine State (St Pete/Tampa FL)

Re: USPS won't honor insurance claim - advice sought

Post by Bargsbeer »

kalikraven wrote:WTF it is mail. Unless it is 'MEDIA MAIL' then it is not 'subject to inspection.' They should not have opened it or xrayed it. Mail is sacred. It is the USPS that is trusted to take a parcel or letter and without delay deliver it to the recipient with 100% confidence that the letter is intact and had not been molested or tampered with. I truly hope that this was a packaging failure and not the USPS tampering with your package.
I seriously doubt anyone tampered with the package, It is a federal offense after all. I work in a USPS processing center we gets tons of packages that break open all day and night, 90% of the time it's due to poor packaging i.e. not enough tape
I used the evil Quicken Will maker..... And my form 4 was approved
bigdog2003_99
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 187
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2007 5:09 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: USPS won't honor insurance claim - advice sought

Post by bigdog2003_99 »

o god its a usps reunion in here lol, i figure ill throw in that i'm a mail carrier up here in ohio, but when i was a mail-handler or clerk (did both) i saw many packages come open, i do agree though the tubes are the worse ones, but yours sounded like it was sealed much better than the ones i usually saw pop open-they didn't even tape them. as far as someone taking it/opening it that wouldn't go very well-they watch us like hawks in case someone tries to pull a fast one. they will pursue criminal charges on you if you found money on the floor inside a facility because they say you took it and it wasn't yours (we had a clerk get slammed for this)

i could only imagine how bad it would be if it was firearm related... and if your postmaster is a good person, he/she would be a very good asset to help you out, i havnt been a clerk in a few years but would you think it would end up in the "rips and tears" section at your local distribution plant?
User avatar
Bargsbeer
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 484
Joined: Sat Jun 17, 2006 3:28 am
Location: The Gunshine State (St Pete/Tampa FL)

Re: USPS won't honor insurance claim - advice sought

Post by Bargsbeer »

bigdog2003_99 wrote:o god its a usps reunion in here lol



For the longest time I thought I was the only Postal worker who liked Silencers...lol
I used the evil Quicken Will maker..... And my form 4 was approved
User avatar
libertyman777
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 553
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 8:46 am

Re: USPS won't honor insurance claim - advice sought

Post by libertyman777 »

I had an issue once with a tracked letter. It was registered mail, made it to Philadelphia and then just stopped. No one could seem to find it.

So I called the Post Master in Philly and mentioned that I may have to contact the Postal Inspector. I was put on hold for about 20 minutes and all of the sudden my letter had been found, he was holding it in his hand, would send it on it's way personally and was terribly sorry for the inconvenience. I was amazed. I told my mother, who has recently retired from the Post Office, the tactics I used and she said I shouldn't have done it. But it worked. If you were in the confines of the law, which I think you are, then I'd sic the PI's on 'em.

Paul
Remember............ You're Special, Unique, One of a Kind.............Just like everyone else.................
SRM
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1825
Joined: Mon Mar 15, 2010 7:20 pm
Location: wyoming

Re: USPS won't honor insurance claim - advice sought

Post by SRM »

Whenever I order a barrel, it comes in a tube.

I deal with tubes of sizes up to six inches. Never had a problem.

Just gotta know how to seal a tube. I always deal with Brown though.
User avatar
WhisperFan
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1551
Joined: Sat Jun 16, 2007 8:08 pm

Re: USPS won't honor insurance claim - advice sought

Post by WhisperFan »

Well,
I'm just glad it is over ... now I just need to close the claim Monday morning.

Hoop - check is in the mail :lol:
no - seriously!!!

Hoop sent back the tube, the open end is not torn, it is a nice clean cut - all the way around the tube, and the tube is about 1.5" shorter than it was when it left - I don't know what's up with that ... but like I said, it didn't have one of those little plastic caps on it, but a 1" thick wooden plug ... a tapered plug at that ... that was hammered into place before taping.

The same tube had been used by OnLine Metals to ship me a 2' length of 1.5" stainless round stock - and the tube is about 1/4" thick, not thin like a paper towel tube .... and it was well packaged. So - I don't really care what people think. It was well packaged and the tube was just fine to handle the load it had in it.

Hoop -
If you can work me in to get it threaded soon, that would be great - I just lost about a week on this project, and gained a few gray hairs in the process.
As nightfall does not come all at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such a twilight that we all must be aware of change in the air -- however slight -- lest we become unwilling victims of the darkness.
Justice William O. Douglas
Historian
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 3503
Joined: Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:37 pm

Re: USPS won't honor insurance claim - advice sought

Post by Historian »

Bargsbeer wrote:
bigdog2003_99 wrote:o god its a usps reunion in here lol



For the longest time I thought I was the only Postal worker who liked Silencers...lol
Are there still Postal Inspectors that, like IA, are called when there might be a problem set?
When Penthouse magazine first came out I found that my monthly subscription seemed
to arrive later than the news stand issue or not at all. Penthouse usually came way before and would
make up the issue as the problem seemed to be epidemic.

So,working for the world's largest ( at that time Mister HU ) bureaucracy, I located the Postal Inspectors.
Forthwith, miraculously, my editions thereafter arrived on time.
In particular, I mentioned in my complaint, I found it particularly objectionable, on the issues that
finally arrived, that the centerfold was rumpled. ( I considered Lysol spraying it before touching. :) )

Unfortunately the 99% dedicated folks get tar brushed by the few riffraff. [ I do have a more colorful
description but I trust that you can fill in. ]
User avatar
Libertarian_Geek
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 3116
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:52 am
Location: Snarkeville, MS

Re: USPS won't honor insurance claim - advice sought

Post by Libertarian_Geek »

On the tube thing... I ordered a 20" LW barrel for my varmint AR from Little Crow. He uses PVC pipe and end-caps to ship in. This is pretty much a nicely armored shipping container, but it still has one flaw... It rolls. When mine arrived, it looked like it had gotten caught between a conveyor belt and post because it had been almost completely worn through in one spot. Had this been a cardboard tube, my barrel would have no-doubt had a shiny spot on it. It needed a shape with a flat on one side.

Mine was UPS, not USPS. It's also not saying that you'll definitely have problems with tubes being shipped, just that it's a sort of tolerance stacking problem.

99.9% of postal employees are good competent people
99.9% of barrels shipped in tubes have no problem
99.9% of barrels shipped in cardboard have no problem
99.9% of the time, there's no bad luck
________________________
Eventually, one or more of the .1%s will add up against you.
https://www.facebook.com/DareDefendOurRights
User avatar
silencertalk
Site Admin
Posts: 33978
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 8:31 am
Location: USA

Re: USPS won't honor insurance claim - advice sought

Post by silencertalk »

WhisperFan wrote:Wish I was wealthy enough to absorb a loss of 1999.00 and not have it be "worth it" to argue :wink:
That is only part of the issue. Insurance is not free. Insurance makes a profit for the insurer. That means, odds are, it is a waste of money.

If the insurance for a $1000 part costs $10, and the odds of it getting lost are 1 in 100, then it is even odds. If the odds of it getting lost are 1 in 1000, then you just paid 10x more for the insurance than it is worth. I can't explain this to anyone who plays the lottery, as those people don't understand math, but I avoid insurance for things below a certain value. Likewise, I tend to have $2000 deductibles on cars - you can get all of the numbers and do the math on why that is a better deal.
User avatar
TypeR632
Silent But Deadly
Posts: 1789
Joined: Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:46 pm
Location: Pelham, AL.

Re: USPS won't honor insurance claim - advice sought

Post by TypeR632 »

I had a set of train horns stolen. USPS had the box but no horns. How in the hell do you lose a set of horns. My dad has opened mail in his mailbox all the time. It's someone in the USPS system. When the mailman runs he goes right out to the mailbox. So it can't be anyone in the neighborhood. I told him to report it, he's scared he won't get his mail if he does that. Everyone wonders why USPS is Billions in the hole, I wonder? I could tell you, but the NAACP would be after me.
SWR Spectre
SWR TRIDENT
AAC 762SD
AAC TITAN
Post Reply