Saiga Shotguns ATF about to rule "no sporting purpose"

[Beretta Steel]

During a "ATF TOWNHALL MEETING" at this years shotshow the ATF all but declared the Siaga Shotgun will be banned from importation due to it having "no sporting purpose" They did not name the Saiga by name but said the shotguns with detachable high cap magazines and drums will face scrutiny. A official release will be coming Jan 24. You heard it hear first. Someone in the aduidence asked is it will be designated a "DD" but the ATF speaker was very vague in his answer and said it will be cleared up in the release coming the 24th. So who knows what is to come, I got an email from a work associate who attended the meeting. They also said certain American made shotguns will follow under this ruling.


Maybe someone who was there could shed more light on the subject. As I received this second hand albeit from a reliable trusted person who was there.

[Ctaylor]

That really pisses me off, I don't see why the ATF doesn't recognize 3-gun and other shooting sports as a "sporting purpose".

[Twinsen]

That really pisses me off, I don't see why the ATF doesn't recognize that Hitler killed himself 60 years ago. Let it go.

[strobro32]

Legislation without representation.

Why does the BATFE get to be all 3 branches of the government?

[ThePatriot]

[Libertarian_Geek]

They've never seen me shoot (at) clays. 5:1 (5 shells 1 clay)

[saltydecimator]

i think this has been ruled internet conjecture no?

[Twinsen]

AFAIK it's two sources who have no facts and admit they doesn't know what is happening.

[ROFuher]

Aside from jack booting citizens, is there any thing the BATFE does that could not be absorbed by the FBI, FDA and the IRS?

[L1A1Rocker]

With the Heller and Mcdonald victories it is time to challange the "sporting purpose" BS. I believe that the foundation for doing this is already covered in these cases. This would also be the next logical step (IMO) in challenging the M.G. ban.

[copenhagen]

Somebody, whom I have never seen, wearing an AAC jacket (odd because we have regulars and I'd notice an AAC man), was in the shop today and saying that this ATF banning the importation of Saiga shotguns was an internet hoax that some lawyer from Texas started?

[ThePatriot]

Yeah it is BS.

[-k-]

Nope

http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearm ... otguns.pdf

[silencertalk]

Just make a sport of shooting guns which must have all of the features that are banned from import. Then file a lawsuit when your import permit is denied.

[ThePatriot]

Nope

http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearm ... otguns.pdf

With a quick look I didn't see anything on the list that affects Saigas, so...

[chrismartin]

Nope

http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearm ... otguns.pdf

I think my head exploded.

So... Must be for sporting use, but we (the ATF) are going to ignore all the sports that use a particular gun.
That entire document is so full of logic-fail it is insane. All shotguns shoot the same ammo and have the same restrictions on barrel length, etc (SBS, AOW notwithstanding) just because one can mount a flash light or have a folding stock, suddenly it's not "sporting" even though it's used in several documented sports with as many or more members actively participating in said sport.

Hey look, the USPSA has 20K members, just as many or more than "traditional" shotgun sports... Hmmm, how can we ignore that? Oh, I've got it... We can't include count the shotguns they use because they ALSO use handguns and rifles too and you know, we really need to look at ALL those guns at the same time.

You know, the sagias have large magazines and since more states limit hunting to just 3 rounds at a time, obviously those are non-sporting arms. We'll ignore, of course, that most all semi and pump shotguns also have magazines that will hold more than 3 rounds.

[700PSS]

We all rely so much on logic and truth, that we're shocked when others (ATF) do not. We try in futility to argue, based on facts and logic. While honorable, that's not the rule our opponents play by. They know the truth, just like we do. Call them what they are, simply anti-gun liars.

[generaldisarray]

[kwikrnu]

I checked the stock on MD arms 20 round drums this afternoon and there were 4 hundred something available. I just checked and they are out of stock...

Link.

[kwikrnu]

Nope

http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearm ... otguns.pdf

With a quick look I didn't see anything on the list that affects Saigas, so...

Nothing on the list, but there were pics of MD drum magazines for the saiga and a picture of a saiga.

[Twinsen]

Nope

http://www.atf.gov/publications/firearm ... otguns.pdf

With a quick look I didn't see anything on the list that affects Saigas, so...

Nothing on the list, but there were pics of MD drum magazines for the saiga and a picture of a saiga.

That was curious, considering no Saiga ships from overseas with a drum.

[tmix]

It doesn't look like it will change anything.

[-k-]

"The fact that a firearm or feature was initially designed for military or tactical applications, including offensive or defensive combat, may indicate that it is not a sporting firearm." Like a shotgun based off of the AK military rifle?


Then the "list of features" doesn't matter if we don't like it clause.

"The Attorney General and ATF are not limited to these factors and therefore may consider any other factor determined to be relevant in making this determination."

"However, even if a shotgun does not have one of the features listed above, it may be considered “sporting” only if it meets the statutory requirements under section 925(d)(3)."

Also consider what this has done for 922r implications...
No light
No railed handguard
No vert grip

[ROFuher]

Also consider what this has done for 922r implications...
No light
No railed handguard
No vert grip

If these are not listed as replaceable parts for 922r, would they matter once you added them?
First thought is the US railed hand guards folk are using as a US part on the Benelli M4.

[-k-]

The shotgun is considered imported if more than ten of the 922r listed parts are foreign made.

It is illegal to make an imported shotgun into a configuration that cannot be imported as sporting.