Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

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stevejobs
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Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by stevejobs »

There are pros and cons to both. List them if you want, or just vote. I didn't list full auto because it's not an option for civilians.
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Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by Libertarian_Geek »

20ga 870 Youth Model 18.25" barrel.

I keep it loaded and with an easy to remove gun lock on it and keep the key in it/on it except for when I leave the house. This way, it's less trouble than putting it in the safe every time I leave, and I don't have to worry about it being used against me if I came home and surprised a burglar. If it gets stolen, I only paid $320 for it, so it's not like loosing my grand-dad's 1100. The youth model stock makes it handle really nice in hallways and around doorways.

Now for my breakdown...

Pros (specific to a pump):
It's cheaper to replace
It's pump reliable. Add complexity, add chance for failure. Occam would opt for a pump.

Cons(specific to a pump):
The potential to short-stroke it if I get in a hurry.
It's slower shot to shot than a semi-auto.
Recoil is more than a semi-auto of the same gauge.

All 3 cons (in my opinion) are at least somewhat mitigated by ignoring your inner caveman and going 20ga.
20ga instead of 12ga = Less Recoil = Faster shot follow-up & less punishment when practicing therefore more practicing and less chance to short-stroke.
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Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by ThePatriot »

I think most people will say pump, if it is reliable (Benelli, Saiga etc.) then why not semi-auto? I am currently using an 870 because it has a light/laser and is a little smaller for indoor use than my full size saiga. For urban SHTF or defending the home during the day the Saiga dominates. Until I get a SBS Saiga with a light my 870 will remain my bump in the night gun. I think the real keys to choosing an HD shotgun are to find a reliable weapon that fits you and practice a lot with it until operation is natural and fast. From my experience, reliability issues for semi-autos have occured when using cheap low power birdshot. I have yet to see buckshot fail.
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Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by continuity »

I've got both kinds, 870 and 1100. The one by the bed is an 870.

While a pump shotgun does have a "harder" recoil, IMHO that down side is offset by the simplicity and reliability of its operation. In an actual lethal force engagement, the adrenalin dump is going to negate any difference in the pump vs. auto loaders perceived recoil.

As a note, all weapons I would use for an engagement are practiced with to get the operation into some level of muscle memory.

Second note... one of the two sounds that all human beings recognize is that of a pump shotgun having a shell racked into battery.
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Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by Syntax360 »

I don't shoot shotguns nearly enough, so I'm afraid the potential for short-stroking is high. My Mossberg 590 was retired and a 930SPX took it's place - I vote semi. Recoil is less, follow-ups are faster, and one can focus less on manipulating the gun and more on the target. Of course, any HD gun needs to be proven reliable before being depended on, so I'm not even going to delve into the pump vs. semi reliability issue.
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Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by Libertarian_Geek »

Syntax360 wrote:I don't shoot shotguns nearly enough, so I'm afraid the potential for short-stroking is high. My Mossberg 590 was retired and a 930SPX took it's place - I vote semi. Recoil is less, follow-ups are faster, and one can focus less on manipulating the gun and more on the target. Of course, any HD gun needs to be proven reliable before being depended on, so I'm not even going to delve into the pump vs. semi reliability issue.
I can definitely understand this logic (not that you needed my approval). If I had a semi-auto that wasn't an heirloom, I'd probably do the same thing. But for me...it'd still be a 20ga either pump or semi-auto. I haven't seen a reason to go from 20 to 12 for home defense.

On the reliability issue...(as all such discussions go), reality may vet an insignificant or nonexistent difference. It's up to the user to do your due diligence in testing. The chance to short-stroke a pump likely balances any reliability issues out to zero or slightly worse on the pump side (depending on user practice).
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Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by -k- »

The thing is not many people can practice running a pump under extreme stress to see how prone to short stroke they are. I've done it a few time myself shooting birds and seen it happen more times in the field than a quality auto that is reasonably maintained.

I'd agree with the 20ga if there was good loads available but don't see 1 buck or larger. 12ga low recoil 00 buckshot is what I use.
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Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by Libertarian_Geek »

-k- wrote:The thing is not many people can practice running a pump under extreme stress to see how prone to short stroke they are. I've done it a few time myself shooting birds and seen it happen more times in the field than a quality auto that is reasonably maintained.

I'd agree with the 20ga if there was good loads available but don't see 1 buck or larger. 12ga low recoil 00 buckshot is what I use.
.03" difference in shot size between #1 buck and #2 buck. Inside the house distances, I think it's splitting hairs but I could be convinced otherwise.
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Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by YugoRPK »

I use 3 inch magnum #4 bird shot. I figure if theyre still being a pain in the ass after getting hit with one shot I've got 7 more ready for them and they won't be moving very fast with 1 1/4 ounce of #4 pellets in them anyway.. It doesnt go through 2 layers of drywall into my kids room like ALL buckshot will at close range like you find in a home.

Semiauto's are reliable if fired from the shoulder . Theyre not so reliable if fired from the hip . I can't say which one I might be forced to do at home in the dark so by default i use a pump for HD.
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Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by -k- »

YugoRPK wrote:...#4 bird shot... It doesnt go through 2 layers of drywall into my kids room like ALL buckshot will at close range like you find in a home.
It might be fine if you get a good unobstructed shot at COM. If the BG is wearing a heavy coat and has his hands up where one might carry a pistol you may need to penetrate an arm and three layers of heavy coat and then still need enough to get to vitals.

You can "harden" a child's room if you think a BG may get between you.
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Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by YugoRPK »

The longest range shot I would ever be able to get in my house is 5 yards maybe. Have you ever shot 3 inch #4 birdshot at anything 5 yards away? Seriously. A few layers of clothing isnt going to do s--t. 1st shot the guy is down and bleeding like a stuck pig. If he's still being a pain in the ass the second and subsequent shots are on the way. Ive heard from guys I know who work in hospital emergency rooms and X ray labs. Close range bird shot especially 1/8" balls like #4 are a LOT more deadly than you think they are.
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Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by Speed-Racer »

I'll take the FN Self-Loading Police Shotgun, all SLP models offer 3" chambers and extended magazine tubes. The SLP model features an 18" barrel, a MIL-STD 1913 top rail with adjustable ghost ring rear sight and a high-profile protected front sight.

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Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by Twinsen »

Get the one you prefer, and find a load that you like. Then fire a few hundred of them so you know it works in the gun. Now you have a reliable HD gun. Yay!
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Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by Libertarian_Geek »

Twinsen wrote:Get the one you prefer, and find a load that you like. Then fire a few hundred of them so you know it works in the gun. Now you have a reliable HD gun. Yay!

^ This
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Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by silencertalk »

20 gauge - no.

Ammo for it costs more than 12 gauge.

And low-recoil 12 gauge is already low-recoil. And you have way more ammo options.

Pump vs semi auto comes down to price.

Semi-auto is better if you can afford a good one. Pump is decent for less money.

I like my 870. I like my Benelli.
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Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by Libertarian_Geek »

silencertalk wrote:20 gauge - no.
I agree to disagree w/ you on this one.
silencertalk wrote:Ammo for it costs more than 12 gauge.
Where are you shopping? I'm finding 20ga slightly cheaper than 12ga at Walmart. I will add that I don't practice with buckshot often(only about once or twice a year), so there may be a cost savings in 12ga for my actual defense loads.
silencertalk wrote:And low-recoil 12 gauge is already low-recoil.

I personally haven't compared so I'll concede due to my ignorance of 12ga low-recoil ammo.
silencertalk wrote:And you have way more ammo options.
No offense, but I don't need lots of options, since I'm not breaching doors, and bean-bagging drunks. I just need 2 options:
1>Cheap practice that won't destroy our steel targets, and
2> a Home defense load that will stop the intruder(s).http://www.brassfetcher.com/index_files/Page2841.htm

There's plenty of 12ga and 20ga options for these two tasks. Agreed, there are definitely fewer options for item #2, but enough.
silencertalk wrote:Pump vs semi auto comes down to price.
Agreed. In my situation, I have enough computer equipment and entertainment equipment in the open already, I still like to reduce my overall exposure to theft as much as possible by value. This is one of those areas. $500 less exposure (I'm not disciplined enough to put it in the safe every time I leave the house). I try to do this in other areas as well, so cumulatively, it's significant.
silencertalk wrote:Semi-auto is better if you can afford a good one. Pump is decent for less money.
Agreed. If money isn't a factor... Yeah, Semi-auto. But for me, money is always a factor and it's close enough given other variables that (like everything else that should be a FAQ), it all depends on your specific situation.
silencertalk wrote:I like my 870. I like my Benelli.
I like my 870 & 1100. But damn, a little 870 20ga youth model is a simple little, fast-handling shotgun (and for ~$325 it kicks butt).
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Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by LonghunterCO »

I am not sure what the size of your bedroom is, but most of us probably have smallish ones and in the bedroom the bed is often the largest piece of furniture. If you are working off of a bed in a barricade type setup, with the barrel pointed at the locked door and your other hand dialing 911 on your cell, then the semi-auto would be the way to go (can be fired multiple shots with one hand, if you had to, and you can barricade off of the bed and fire without pulling it off the bed to cycle). I run mine with a light. Add a light to your pumps forearm (the only way I would run one on a pump) and you have an extra snag point in this type of position.
You said HD right? Just my thoughts, YMMV.
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Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by JacksonBrowne »

continuity wrote:
Second note... one of the two sounds that all human beings recognize is that of a pump shotgun having a shell racked into battery.
Hah, and what is the second?
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Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by Libertarian_Geek »

JacksonBrowne wrote:
continuity wrote:
Second note... one of the two sounds that all human beings recognize is that of a pump shotgun having a shell racked into battery.
Hah, and what is the second?
My guess is the sound of flatulence.
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Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by continuity »

JacksonBrowne wrote:
continuity wrote:
Second note... one of the two sounds that all human beings recognize is that of a pump shotgun having a shell racked into battery.
Hah, and what is the second?
The voice of ones child... (either that or that insane ice cream truck music as it moves through the neighborhood)
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Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

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Benelli M-3
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Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by doubloon »

Semi-auto, because it's not just me that may have to use it.

My wife needs to be able to fire more than one shot. Also, if I had any kids still in the house I'd want them to be able to get off a couple shots as well.
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Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by hoser »

I will take a semi any day. I have seen too many pump guns get short stroked when guys get stressed.
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Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by benfranklin1787 »

I would take my benelli m4 over a pump any day. My benelli can cycle any ammo reliable, I have never had one single malfunction, even with the cheap and/or lightest loads. So why not take a semi over a pump? Just my opinion:D
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Re: Best choice for defensive shotgun: Pump or Semi-Auto?

Post by kwikrnu »

Saiga 12 with a 20 round drum.

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