Suppressors as SHTF gear?

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ArevaloSOCOM
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Post by ArevaloSOCOM »

Image

:lol:

good one Thunderhole..........

:lol:
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Post by JohnnyC »

thunderhole wrote: G&R: Were you like, beaten as a child with a brick of 22 ammo, or what dude?
No, he's just a giant pussy and had an AAC Aviator forcibly inserted into his exit hole by a large black man named John Holmes. He was forced to scream, "GIMME THE SILENCED .22, I WANT IT IN MY ASS!!!!" over and over again. He's never been able to find John Holmes again so he's taking out his sexual frustration on everyone who owns one, hoping someone will get pissed off enough to pack his s--t in.
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Post by cqbdoc10 »

JohnnyC wrote:
thunderhole wrote: G&R: Were you like, beaten as a child with a brick of 22 ammo, or what dude?
No, he's just a giant pussy and had an AAC Aviator forcibly inserted into his exit hole by a large black man named John Holmes. He was forced to scream, "GIMME THE SILENCED .22, I WANT IT IN MY ASS!!!!" over and over again. He's never been able to find John Holmes again so he's taking out his sexual frustration on everyone who owns one, hoping someone will get pissed off enough to pack his s--t in.
Niiice.

Very nice.
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Post by jwise »

Getting back on topic, I appreciated G&R's first couple posts, as they made me sit back and consider other options. I agree with GaLEO's points, and still think my suppressed .22lr is one of the best tools in my SHTF toolbox.

If I had to put a bad man down, and didn't want to make a lot of ruckus, a few quick rounds from a suppressed semi-automatic pistol is a LOT better than any air pistol/rifle.

I also whole-heartedly agree that hunting in a post-SHTF world would need to be done quietly so as to not attract a lot of attention.

.22lr is the BEST caliber to hunt small game with, economically and ballistically.

It IS expensive (I dropped $1k on my suppressed .22lr pistol combo), and it definitely isn't a NEEDED tool, but if you've got it, it lends itself extremely well to your SHTF preps.
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Post by 3101 »

jwise,
I agree. I am just dimitted enough to belive in the value of a silencer on an accurate .22 platform if the SHTF....
Lots of advantages and very little downside.
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Post by stengun »

Howdy,

This is my first post. Thanks for a cool forum!

Boy, ya'll sure have a pissin' match going on with G&R.

Me? I'm just a poor dumb farm boy from Bugtussell, AR. I don't know Jack s--t. But the one thing that I do know is that G&R is full of s--t.
GlockandRoll wrote:
Is an integral MK2 Ruger .22lr cool - you betcha - but I'm not going to dish out a grand for it, when a knife is even more silent and does not require paperwork.

.
The one thing about killing someone with a knife is that you have to come into contact w/ the person. I'm sure there are several peeps on this forum that could head shoot someone from 35yds or farther w/ one of those cool integral MK2 Ruger .22lr and probably out to 125yds w/ a suppressed 10/22. I'm not saying I can but I'm sure there's some on here that can.

Plus, being a poor farm boy, I've killed about everthing that has walked, crawled, swam or flew in my area w/ a .22 rimfire. This includes an 800lb hog w/ a .22 short solid HV. She dropped like a rock. I've killed 1,500lb steers w/ a .22lr solid HV. They all dropped like a rock.

G&R doesn't know much about bows either. Bows are not silent. They do make noise. Plus they are not as quite or deadly at 100yds as a suppressed bolt action .22lr

Just my $.02.

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Post by Artful »

Welcome Stengun/Paul - you aren't seeing this group at their best - but you may be seeing us at our most honest.

I think part of the observation you made about bow, or sling shots or anything else mechanical having observable noise is valid to consider in SHTF situation but few things truly kill silently - poison or time maybe. :P

And my Piston Air Rifle makes more noise than my suppressed 10/22 :wink:
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Post by gaw »

SHTF gear means dual use-multi purpose. i have shot many .22s and they are a very capable choice. But now with the 5.7 out I would have to say thats the way to go. Bolt rifle, pistol and ps 90. One cartage- three weapons. All suppressed of course. You can't go wrong with that setup. I only have a 5.7 pistol but those three would fit the bill a SHTF setup.
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Post by Davo5o »

You'd better stock pile a sh*t ton of ammo, and have QD can. How much does 1000 rounds of 5.7 cost, and how much does it weigh. What's it's FPE, because I don't think it's very high.

Personally I'll use 22 for cheap, quiet, and quantity, 10mm 220g for pistol suppressed about 120db wet, and .308 for long range "get some". If I was strickly survival the .22 would still be cheap, quiet, and I could carry a ton of it. Biggest thing I'd probably shoot was small deer in the head, depending on what was around. It would be nice to have something bigger for predator defense though. Maybe the 10mm with 230gr WFNGC from Doube Tap for defense, then 220gr subs for quiet dispach. If I had to choose one, it would be real hard. I could probably get by with just the 22 and 10mm though.
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Post by Fredo »

GlockandRoll wrote:
GaLEO - those are good points, and I realize that I'll not only never win this, but that I'm a complete jackass about it, but I just want to make sure I understand fully the need to supress a .22lr. Are we saying that a silencer is needed on a .22lr hunt with, how many states allow that?

I'm just not sure I understand why you need a can on a .22 to survive with... if the SHTF and you had to worry about stealth, I would risk SO MUCH LESS by hunting hogs at night with my .308, integral 77/44, etc. Which leads to more food with minimal exposure to detection? Or are we just talking about hunting, I could get a LOT more squirrels than any 3 of you guys here shooting suppressed 22's, if I were to have a shotgun with me.

I'm asking a serious question here - why the need to supress a .22? Is it the giggle factor?
I can understand that but it's not worth it to me becuase of the extra NFA hassel, am I missing out on something great? Would it make you guys feel any better if I purchased a .22lr silencer, seriously, would that make you guys feel better?

cqbdoc10 - never mind... it's too easy to upset you and I'm terrified, so let's just not go there.
.22LR unsuppressed - 160dB
.22LR suppressed - 115-130dB (weapon and silencer dependant)
Crossman .177 airpistol - 120-123dB (# of pumps dependant)

SV-99 - new russian sniper rifle - .22LR - for use by special forces - includes suppressor.

Chechens used .22LR weapons very effectively against Russian forces, including assassinating a senior general while he was giving a speach to assembled troops. They were able to make improvised suppressors that were reasonably effective, due to the small diameter and low gas volume of a .22LR.

Within 100m, .22LR can be an deadly and accurate round.

I would find a suppressed .22LR weapon very useful in an urban SHTF situation. Being able to kill people at 50-100m with almost no acoustic signature would be priceless.

I.E. Gang walking down the street. Normally at the first shot, everyone will scatter, take cover, look for the shooter, and return fire. With a very quiet weapon, the loudest sound is going to be the body hitting the ground. The shooter could work his way up the line, picking people off without warning the others. Even if someone sees the body go to the ground, the first thought is going to be that they tripped or something. There won't be the immediate "Oh ****, we are getting shot at" reaction.

Now you may be able to kill someone as easily with a knife as a gun. I'm impressed - I can't. I find it much easier to get within 30-60m of someone than to get within 1-2 feet. I'm not a naturally stealthy guy - what can I say. So I would prefer any way to be able to reach out and touch someone.

A bow is quiet. I couldn't shoot a bow accurately if my life depended on it. I can shoot a .22. A bow is also much more bulky than even a .22LR rifle, let alone a .22LR pistol. And I could carry much more ammunition - with a bow, I could carry 20-30 arrows, maybe, if I had a backpack or large quiver. .22LR - hmm, the question is how many thousand of rounds I would want to carry.

I agree that a .22LR doesn't have the most impressive ballistic characteristics. If I was hunting 2-legged preditors, I would definately prefer to have a suppressed 300 Whisper, or even better .510 Whisper. Then I would have a very quiet killer with considerally more punch and a longer effective range. However, its hard enough getting ammo for those rounds now, let alone in a SHTF situation.

You probably could kill squirrels, birds, etc faster with a shotgun. Again, the question of sound and ammo weight/availability comes to mind. If SHTF, those become important questions.

As for if I would feel better if you bought a .22LR suppressor - I could honestly give a rat's ass one way or the other. The question isn't whether or not you buy one; its whether or not a suppressed .22 is a viable option. You seem very confident that it wouldn't be. Most of the people here disagree with you.
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Post by gaw »

The three 5.7s is an idea based on simplicity of gear + ammo. The 5.7 can be loaded slow or rather fast for ranges I would not shoot a 22. I personaly could not afford that combo. I have a 5.7 I just got (waiting on aac can).Probably wont shoot it much. I'm board with pistols. I'm waiting on a Bushmaster 6 position lower that I think I will put a 20 in. bull + tundertrap on.I cant afford a long range rifle so I will make that my short + longrange weapon. As far as pistol goes I might go with the new hk .45 coming out. Or my old favorite the TLE/RL w/ an evolution. Back to the 5.7 I like the rapid fireability of it w/ better range than all the 22s I've owned. Distance with a pistol leaves the rifle on your back for ease of mobility.
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Post by gaw »

Besides I have a family. I would stick to the urban. A .22 would not be on the top of my list. If it came time to leave then I would grab one.
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Post by BachelorJack »

gaw wrote:The three 5.7s is an idea based on simplicity of gear + ammo. The 5.7 can be loaded slow or rather fast for ranges I would not shoot a 22. I personaly could not afford that combo. I have a 5.7 I just got (waiting on aac can).Probably wont shoot it much. I'm board with pistols. I'm waiting on a Bushmaster 6 position lower that I think I will put a 20 in. bull + tundertrap on.I cant afford a long range rifle so I will make that my short + longrange weapon. As far as pistol goes I might go with the new hk .45 coming out. Or my old favorite the TLE/RL w/ an evolution. Back to the 5.7 I like the rapid fireability of it w/ better range than all the 22s I've owned. Distance with a pistol leaves the rifle on your back for ease of mobility.
The 5.7 is great if you plan on needing to dispatch threats wearing body armour and either have post sample machine gun versions or the threats will be unarmed. If the threats will be armed it is a poor choice. It would make a good small game gun like a 17hmr without ballistic tips. This has been discussed elsewhere at length.

If you shoot me with a 5.7 and I find out about it......
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Post by BWT »

The way I see it. A .22'd be ideal.

You're not going to encounter a lot of things really. Carrying around 300-500 rounds isn't exactly a chore. A suppressor and a good optic, and you're good. I'd definitely consider it. Easy to find, easy to use, extremely plentiful.

What's not to like?

I mean can you guys who say .308 Subsonic say, you would carry around let's say...100 rounds with you. or 200, hell maybe you're ditching your home, and just going to rough it, use what you can find, live off the land. Do you think you'll be all gun ho about carrying 300 some odd .308 shells?

What if SHTF meant you can have what you can carry because you can't use roads, or cars, because you'll be shot to s--t, or you can't find fuel anyway.

I mean, you're talking sacrificing food and water, clothes, spare socks, whatever, for a heavier subsonic round, if I was going to carry .308 it'd be hot loaded JHP's for maximum killing efficiency. But I'm not sure what weapon I'd take. Probably a .22 LR, I could see a handgun with like 4 or 5 mags and a suppressor, and an AR or something, but that's it for firearms, the rest needs to have a purpose.
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Post by bp_968 »

22lr is extremely effective. You can easily dispact 2-legged problems from a safe distance without disclosing your position (who said it was a fair fight?). The nonsense about not enough stopping power, etc etc, is exactly that. Nonsense. a 10/22 can put out quite a few little "bee stings" really fast. If the target has no idea of your location then multiples to the torso (not a difficult size target at 100yds) and a couple of minutes later your down one bad guy. SHTF is exactly that. No need to play fair on in the rules.
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Post by Davo5o »

Hitting a 3-4" square with a 22lr at 200 yrds I know is doable consistantly, with the rite ammo for that specific rifle, and I use only mildot reticles. At 100 yrds 1-2" groups most any rife can do, but there are many sub MOA rifles out there. I consider it one of the best "truly quiet", highly accurate, cheap, light weight, readily available, easily transportable, compact, tools on the market today. Plus a 10/22 can easily hold mags of 30-50rds without making the weapon cumbersome. No need to worry about body armor, you just aim around it. Some SWAT guy was quoted saying something about the only thing they need to stop the north hollywood shoot out with those guys all decked out in body armor with FA AK's, were some ruger 10/22's in their trunks and one well placed round. That scene was a clusterf@ck from hell, luckily non of the good guys died, and both the bad ones did.

Suppressed 22lr is on the top of my SHTF list.
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Post by Landry308 »

As to the original question:

My SHTF weapon is 10.5" M16. I chose it because:

1.It's compact enough (without the can) to carry wherever you go and for day-to-day chores. If your gun is too cumbersome, chances are you may not have it when you need it.

2.still has range to reach out to 200-300 yds as needed

3. defeats body armor. More thugs these days are wearing it. NATO too !

4. common ammo and parts.

The plan is to carry it day-to-day without can, compact mode if caught by suprise. If I know or suspect trouble coming, can on. Hearing protection is one reason. Rate of fire increase main reason. Let me explain that last one. I find MG's most controllable if they have a very low or very high rate of fire. Below 650 or above 900. With the can on, the rate on my M16 is very high. At 100 yards, offhand,can keep 3 round burst on target, with can. Without can, muzzle has started to climb by 3 rounds. At close range, that high rate of fire is simply devastating to anything you hit. Thugs, Oldsmobiles, whatever.

I will always have a handgun also. If possible would LOVE to also have suppressed .22 rifle for food collection and silently sniping key troublemakers.
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Post by Illuminated_one »

Am I the only one here that thinks it's funny that, on the same page that people are touting the .22 as the closest thing to a perfect all around SHTF gun *(read below), a couple other people dismiss the 5.7 as being underpowered?


*I'm not arguing against the effectiveness of a .22. Around here, and I'm sure across the country, the .22 is probably the most common caliber for poachers to use on deer. If it works on deer, it'll work on a person. There are, however, better alternatives for a firefight.
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Post by Davo5o »

Both rounds are underpowered for a firefight. 22LR is common, cheap, readily available, light weight, in a very small package, and extremely easy to suppress. The 5.7 is non of those things, and it has no real additional value for stopping power. Both rounds will kill similarly with a well placed head shot, but there no reason I can see to use a 5.7 over a 22LR. The 5.7 is simply an underpowered overpriced 223 short.
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Post by Esteves »

Davo5o wrote:Both rounds are underpowered for a firefight. 22LR is common, cheap, readily available, light weight, in a very small package, and extremely easy to suppress. The 5.7 is non of those things, and it has no real additional value for stopping power. Both rounds will kill similarly with a well placed head shot, but there no reason I can see to use a 5.7 over a 22LR. The 5.7 is simply an underpowered overpriced 223 short.
The 5.7x28mm cartridge is on par or relatively light weight when compared with anything other than rimfire and mousegun cartridges. Subsonic loads do exist, and greatly ease suppression. The subsonics yield about 37% more energy and momentum than subsonic .22LR with the operator's option to step up to the high velocity ammo. The 5.7x28mm is also centerfire, and more appropriate than rimfire for use when "going bang every time" is a concern.

Ignoring the guns that fire the rounds is also doing the 5.7x28mm a disservice. Reliably feeding 20 rounds from the standard pistol magazine or 50 from the carbine could make a big difference in a SHTF scenario.

Negative comparisons of the 5.7x28 to the 5.56x45 usually result from a decision that's already been made rather than from a process that balances the trade-offs (pros and cons) associated with any cartridge selection.
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Post by Davo5o »

Esteves wrote:
Davo5o wrote:Both rounds are underpowered for a firefight. 22LR is common, cheap, readily available, light weight, in a very small package, and extremely easy to suppress. The 5.7 is non of those things, and it has no real additional value for stopping power. Both rounds will kill similarly with a well placed head shot, but there no reason I can see to use a 5.7 over a 22LR. The 5.7 is simply an underpowered overpriced 223 short.
The 5.7x28mm cartridge is on par or relatively light weight when compared with anything other than rimfire and mousegun cartridges. Subsonic loads do exist, and greatly ease suppression. The subsonics yield about 37% more energy and momentum than subsonic .22LR with the operator's option to step up to the high velocity ammo. The 5.7x28mm is also centerfire, and more appropriate than rimfire for use when "going bang every time" is a concern.

Ignoring the guns that fire the rounds is also doing the 5.7x28mm a disservice. Reliably feeding 20 rounds from the standard pistol magazine or 50 from the carbine could make a big difference in a SHTF scenario.

Negative comparisons of the 5.7x28 to the 5.56x45 usually result from a decision that's already been made rather than from a process that balances the trade-offs (pros and cons) associated with any cartridge selection.
Sorry if I touched a nerve. You obviously love the 5.7 so good for you. I personally think it's an expensive, uncommon, underpowered, and POS round. IMHO Have fun with that.
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Post by Illuminated_one »

It's fun, but I wouldn't trust it too much.

I just think it's kinda funny that the 5.7 gets bashed for being underpowered while the .22 is praised... :wink:


I think a .22 and a 5.7 would both prove to be useful to me if the SHTF.

.224 cal bullets are very common, I have lots of powder and cases, and no reason to leave my house. We raise rabbits, and have a river nearby. No worry about food or water here.

Also, if the Govt falls, it is ridiculously easy to convert the PS90 to FA (I have NEVER done this). So it would be a good choice for a... PDW around the house. Huh, PDW, who would have thought you could use it for that...
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Post by Davo5o »

The 22LR isn't being praised for power, only for every other reason stated. It has just enough power to get the job done with a head shot, and that's all. The 5.7 has a little more power, and non of the other benefits. Body shots with the 5.7 and 22 are about the same, no stopping power. The 5.7 weighs more, costs a ton more, is very hard to find especially in a SHTF senario, and really has very limited power potential. I personally think it's a POS round with very little SHTF potential. Other than it's better than nothing. Anyone is free to use whatever they want for whatever they want, and anyone else is free to critisize all they want. If you have a 5.7 more power to you, have fun with that, I'm sure you have more guns than just one, and I hope non of us ever encounter a real SHTF situation. Personally if I had to choose just one gun, it sure as hell wouldn't be a 5.7.
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Post by Illuminated_one »

I would think that if you had a series of hits in rapid succession to the torso, it would sure do a number on whoever or whatever you were shooting. Hell, against a person, one hit to the chest or neck will probably make them think twice about bothering you.

I'm not worried about hunting, we have probably 250+ rabbits in our barn right now. So a .22 doesn't seem too useful to me.

If I thought I was going to be in a firefight I'd probably grab my M4, but why bother with the extra length around the house?

Sometimes I think people forget that the 5.7 is a specialty cartridge and not meant to compete with the 5.56.
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Post by lawless »

The thing that sucks about the 5.7 is that the ammo that gives the damage and penetration is not available redily. I love it as a fun round and for small varmints. However I would never chose it as a SHTF gun. Its too small and the ammo availabe for it is not the good stuff youd need. I love my m4 but you better have some good stuff in it. S 55 fmj wont do much to slow down an attacker immeadiately. The 308 is the ultimate all around round if such a thing exists. In all reality there isnt one round to do everything. Youll have to have many guns to cover every situation. And if there isnt ammo available, stock up. I just got 5000 rounds of 5.7 but that cost about 3 times as much as the gun. :cry:
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