F*ck Dunham's Sports

[Selectedmarksman]

F--k 'em right in the ear. I got a flyer in the mail advertising a sale they're having this weekend. Some cheap guns listed specifically, and $50 off and non-specified gun originally over $400, $25 off any non-specified gun between $150 and $400. It was enough to get me out there.

Nothing of interest gun wise, but I noticed that they actually had some .45 acp ammo on a shelf. Three boxes, anyway. I looked at the price tag for the Remington... $49.95. I figured my vision was worse than I realised, and that the 4 was actually a 1, so I asked the clerk how much.... $49.95. I talked to the clerk about this, asking if they really had dealer costs go up so much that they had to charge a dollar a bullet for cheap .45 acp. He admitted that they 'might' have paid $.50 a cartridge, but his body language said they paid even less. All signs point to them doing 100% markup.

I plan on going back in another day and asking to talk to the store manager. I'm not 'angry' and I'll tell him so. I just want to let him know that while I understand they don't get much ammo in to benefit from volume sales, we're all having hard times right now and this is an uncool thing to do. Sure, having a box vs. nothing may be worth a buck a bullet to someone and that would be a win-win. However, if/when things finally settle down again and prices go back to normal, I will always remember this. I'm not giving them another dime because they tried to rape their customers. Same team, man, same team.

It's my opinion that gun owners, dealers, and customers should be working together, meeting half-way, to work through these tough times. Some dealers have done outstanding things (such as AAC's branded for life promo) while others are heroic in just keeping the costs at pre-scare levels. But F--k, $1 per cartridge of standard .45? NO.

[Blaubart]

Don't take it personally. It's business. Supply and demand, etc.

Likewise, they shouldn't take it personally when they lose a lot of customers over this. People remember when businesses try to stick it to them, especially during what many see as a time of need.

ETA: I hope some of those fuckers that don't even shoot who are stocking up on bullets as an investment buy a few cases of those $50 boxes. That would make it a little easier to stomach.

[22silencer]

I am with you. I had a rain check for a WASR-10 and then the frenzy hit and they would not honor it. If you say you will honor something then honor it. If you do not plan to keep your word then why even issue a raincheck that you do not plan to redeem. Piss Poor Business Practices. Seems that they have "Sales" to lower prices to where should have been to begin with on most items. I refuse to do business with them.

[Blaubart]

Seems that they have "Sales" to lower prices to where should have been to begin with on most items. I refuse to do business with them.

We have a local sporting goods store that does the same thing, drives me nuckin futs! Most of their price tags show "MSRP" and a "SALE" price. 90% of the time, the MSRP comes straight out of someone's ass. I've been suckered into it a couple of times before I got to know them and walked away thinking I just got a screaming deal, when I actually paid MSRP. Other than that, they've been OK.

[David Hineline]

Ok any retail or wholesale business who sells inventory for less than that can replace it for, no matter what they paid for it, if they can not replace it, they are not going to last in business.

Durring $4 gas do you think the suppliers were actually selling gas that cost them $4, no they were selling gas that cost them much less but they sold it at the price gas was going to cost them to replace it.

As for AACs branded for life program, they did not give away anything they just passed the costs off to paying customers just like any advertising campaign cost is added onto the final cost of paying customers.

But anyway I got screwed by them long ago, and I have never been back, don't know if the local store here is still open.

I just checked the web, local store still listed, I might have to go in there to remember just why I stopped going in there around 10yrs ago.

[Selectedmarksman]

I don't view AAC's promo quite like that... Yes, that's the reality of things, that quarter-mil is going to have to be made up by the paying customers. However, I don't think they ever imagined that many people would take them up on it (they even had to end the promo early) so I don't blame them. In fact, I respect them for not stiffing anybody.

As far as cost of replacement, I'm not saying I expect Dunham's to only make a tiny profit after cost of replacement is considered, but selling it for twice their cost is insane. In free commerce they can charge whatever they want, I don't think anyone should stop them. I just didn't appreciate them scalping so hard and hope other gun owners in the area got the same feeling I did when they saw the price sticker.

[ArevaloSOCOM]

Fcuk Dunham Sports.

AAC promom is bad thing now? Yeah........I'll try to remmeber that evertime I fire my suppressed 50BMG.

[David Hineline]

Local Scheels have been putting out some primers at $28/thousand. I am sure they have customers calling them Fuckwads cause they won't put them all out at one time, so that one guy can buy them all. Any given customer can only buy a thousand or two at a time.

What is Durhams supposed to do if they sell that ammo at regular markup price and then thier shelves sit empty? Once the supply resumes they should lower price.

For every customer who balks and walks away because they can not afford ammo now, there is some customer glad to find product at any price.

I have about 50,000 primers, around 100,000 pieces of brass and bullets, 50 or so pounds of powder, a couple thousand pounds of lead.

Now ask me if I am going to sell any of it to you, then decide which is worse on the hobby, hoarders, or stores who want to make extra profit to try and provide you product.

[David Hineline]

Fcuk Dunham Sports.

AAC promom is bad thing now? Yeah........I'll try to remmeber that evertime I fire my suppressed 50BMG.

It's not a bad thing for those who wanted tatoos, anymore than free US medical care is a bad deal for illegal mexicans, but it's not a particularly good deal for those who pay for the services.

[Blaubart]

It's not a bad thing for those who wanted tatoos, anymore than free US medical care is a bad deal for illegal mexicans, but it's not a particularly good deal for those who pay for the services.

But like you said, it was basically an advertisement expense. I think it was more effective in reaching customers than a few full page ads in some gun magazines. And when those magazines are discarded, those tattoos are still going to be generating questions. "Hey, what's that tattoo mean?"

If they spend nothing on advertisement, they won't sell very many cans, in which case everyone pays more because they aren't seeing the same economies of scale.

What good does giving free medical care to illegals do for anyone outside of the person receiving treatment? Is it good advertising for the hospital? For our country? Nope, it's just a burden.

[ArevaloSOCOM]

Fcuk Dunham Sports.

AAC promom is bad thing now? Yeah........I'll try to remmeber that evertime I fire my suppressed 50BMG.

It's not a bad thing for those who wanted tatoos, anymore than free US medical care is a bad deal for illegal mexicans, but it's not a particularly good deal for those who pay for the services.

You act like AAC raised thier prices on cans after the promotion, they did it before.

No one was gonna save money on thier AAc can by not having the promotion, if anything AAC is eating the cost, not the consumer.

[David Hineline]

Fcuk Dunham Sports.

AAC promom is bad thing now? Yeah........I'll try to remmeber that evertime I fire my suppressed 50BMG.

It's not a bad thing for those who wanted tatoos, anymore than free US medical care is a bad deal for illegal mexicans, but it's not a particularly good deal for those who pay for the services.

You act like AAC raised thier prices on cans after the promotion, they did it before.

No one was gonna save money on thier AAc can by not having the promotion, if anything AAC is eating the cost, not the consumer.

What planet do you come from that you think any cost incurred by a company that intends to remain in business is paid for by the company, all money spent that comes from the company comes from the customer.

I suppose you think that the winner of the Lotto did not profit at the loss of the masses who bought tickets.
Same with being a winner at a casino, the winner won at the expense of the mass loosers. Now in the case of AAC silencers who buy the product they are not loosers, but they are funding every aspect of AAC's operation and marketing strategy.

The silencer photo contests, any giveaway drawings at sponsored events, the tatoo giveaway, the costs of advertising, travel expenses to send employees to the various shoots around the country, are all paid for by the customers who spend money with the company.

The only way it is a giveaway is at final liquidation sale when the company is bankrupt and thier assets are sold at a loss.

[David Hineline]

What good does giving free medical care to illegals do for anyone outside of the person receiving treatment? Is it good advertising for the hospital? For our country? Nope, it's just a burden.[/quote]


The hospitals are not giving free medical service to non payers for good will or good advertising, they are doing it because they are required to do so by law if they want to receive Uncle Sugar funds.

Many private doctors open thier own surgery and wellness centers to cater to patients with the means to pay, then take the non payers to the hospitals who are required to provide service regardless of ability to pay.

[2000army]

What good does giving free medical care to illegals do for anyone outside of the person receiving treatment? Is it good advertising for the hospital? For our country? Nope, it's just a burden.

The hospitals are not giving free medical service to non payers for good will or good advertising, they are doing it because they are required to do so by law if they want to receive Uncle Sugar funds.

Many private doctors open thier own surgery and wellness centers to cater to patients with the means to pay, then take the non payers to the hospitals who are required to provide service regardless of ability to pay.

Your analogy is not accurate .... no one forces you to pay for a suppressor from AAC.

[Blaubart]

What planet do you come from that you think any cost incurred by a company that intends to remain in business is paid for by the company, all money spent that comes from the company comes from the customer.

At the most simplistic level, yes. All money that a company spends ultimately comes from the consumer, assuming they stay in business long enough to pay off their debts. But it isn't that simple. Business earnings fluctuate, they do not stay constant. If the price of cans fluctuated to keep the earnings constant, then I'd agree that the consumer is incurring all the costs.

[Blaubart]

The hospitals are not giving free medical service to non payers for good will or good advertising, they are doing it because they are required to do so by law if they want to receive Uncle Sugar funds.

That's my point.

AAC giving away silencers was nothing like emergency rooms giving away free treatment to illegals.

[David Hineline]

The hospitals are not giving free medical service to non payers for good will or good advertising, they are doing it because they are required to do so by law if they want to receive Uncle Sugar funds.

That's my point.

AAC giving away silencers was nothing like emergency rooms giving away free treatment to illegals.

My only point in this comparison is that the paying customers offset/cover the cost of the giveaway.

It does not matter if the givaway is voluntary or compelled by law, those that pay, fund those that don't.

[pneumagger]

What is Durhams supposed to do if they sell that ammo at regular markup price and then thier shelves sit empty? Once the supply resumes they should lower price.

This is it! A store with empty shelves still has a mailbox full of bills.

Pretend an ammunition retailer needs to sell 50,000 rounds/wk to make $500 profit ($0.10/round profit). But along comes this shortage and the guy only get 10,000 rounds in stock due to limited production capability. That means to make his $500 weekly paycheck he needs to make $0.50/round profit. I don't know of many common calibers where adding $0.50/round isn't at least 100% or more price increase (more likely 200%+). All the while EVERYONE'S bitching about "price gouging" and the poor saps selling the ammo are just trying to keep a NORMAL business revenue.

And this is all assuming the replacement cost from the factory distributors has not risen as well - if distributor cost rises then that bumps the cost of on-shelf stock in stores as well.
For all you people know, some stores using "heroic" minimal markup strategies are making LESS money despite charging MORE.

[Blaubart]

But are the stores receiving product slower than usual, or are they selling out faster than usual? I think it's more the latter than the former.

[pneumagger]

Ultimately, the supply is limited and this is a country-wide phenomenon. Every store is ordering more and production just can't keep up (otherwise there would be ammo on shelves ) A shortage is a shortage - at some point in the supply chain, someone is getting shorted because there's not enough to go around. If stores aren't getting as many units on the shelves each week regardless of how fast they sell them, then the per unit cost must rise to meet the net weekly profit for that item.

[Selectedmarksman]

Dunham sports is not primarily a firearms/ammo distributor. That makes up a small portion of their store. They sell all kinds of s--t. I have a hard time believing that the ammo crisis is forcing them to charge $50 for 50 rounds of .45 acp just to 'pay the bills.'

Believe me, I'm all about coming together in these hard times. However, there are times when people take advantage of others during a crisis. This seems like one of them.

[pneumagger]

Dunham sports is not primarily a firearms/ammo distributor. That makes up a small portion of their store. They sell all kinds of s--t. I have a hard time believing that the ammo crisis is forcing them to charge $50 for 50 rounds of .45 acp just to 'pay the bills.'

Believe me, I'm all about coming together in these hard times. However, there are times when people take advantage of others during a crisis. This seems like one of them.

But Dunhams (really any retail level store) gets their ammo from a wholesale distributor or other private distributor whose income is (most likely) solely based on ammo sales. Everyone in a supply chain is squeezed during a shortage. That means if the distributor can only receive half the stock because every other distributor is placing many orders then he must double his profit margin to make the same gross income. When the distributors' price increases, retail stores price increases despite their dependence on ammo sales to survive.

On the other hand, there are quite a few people that are adding a private markup because they can "get away with it". This is probably true for many of the "price gouge" stories we hear ($1/rnd for .45). F--k these people and I can only hope customers remember their actions when prices return to normal. I see $30/box .45 around so I'm guessing that's more in line with honest short supply markup sans price gouging. Heck, My range has to buy most of thier practice ammo for range use only commercially. They openly told me they're marking up $2-$3 per box to cover expenses and hassles getting it from several other retailers and it's still "only" $18/box for 9mm. That means what... some retailer was charging $15 per box honest pricing which is only about a 50% increase from pre-panic prices.

[Selectedmarksman]

I can understand your point about the distributors and I honestly hadn't considered it. I remember paying about $.35 per round at Wal-Mart for .45 acp, so that is my baseline. However, in this case, I managed to get the clerk to admit that the store "might" have paid $.50 per round on it, with the hesitation, inflection, and body language indicating he believed they paid less. The store paying $.50 would, in fact, be quite an increase in cost to them from the distributor but the jump in shelf price didn't exactly seem proportionate. Is 100% markup SOP for them? If so, just a different reason to avoid them.

[Blaubart]

Is there any reason to believe that production has slowed down?

If not, then factories are still shipping out the same amount of ammo, distributors are still distributing the same amount of ammo and retailers are still selling the same amount of ammo. They are certainly falling short of demand and they aren't receiving everything they're ordering, but overall, they aren't selling less than they were when there wasn't a shortage. It's just that ammo isn't sitting on a shelf or in a warehouse for any number of years anymore.

Which is better for a retailer? To have product sitting on a shelf for years, or instantly selling product as soon as they receive it? Same thing with distributors, and manufacturers.

What anyone prices their ammo for is completely and totally up to them. Personally, I don't care. If it's overpriced, I try not to buy it. If it's underpriced, I'll buy as much as I can afford to. I don't hold a grudge if a retailer overprices an item, as long as they don't misrepresent it while they're doing so. As has been noted already, if it's overpriced, at least there might be some in stock if you really need it.

[Selectedmarksman]

I was just trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. Even still, they're scalping. Now, it could be things aren't as bad as we are lead to believe in which case the degree of severity of extortion just rises.